# Debit card: PIN or no PIN? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 1, 2025, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debit-card-pin-or-no-pin/1016452 "2025-04-01T15:05:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2025, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debit-card-pin-or-no-pin/1016452/21 "2025-04-01T20:49:05Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > That is, it’s possible for the waiter to bring a wireless card reader to the table which doesn’t have contactless capability, and it’s possible that the waiter takes the card away to a machine in the back that does use a contactless tap. Wireless readers here all have tap, that’s why I mentioned upthread that the US is at least 5 years behind on contactless. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2025, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debit-card-pin-or-no-pin/1016452/22 "2025-04-01T20:56:25Z")
As do most in the United States ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2025, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debit-card-pin-or-no-pin/1016452/23 "2025-04-01T21:42:25Z")
I requested a PIN on the card i use internationally. Now i have one, and use it in systems that require a PIN. Honestly, i wish all systems did. ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2025, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debit-card-pin-or-no-pin/1016452/24 "2025-04-01T21:48:34Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > As do most in the United States Again, my point is that they **all** have been contactless up here for at least half a decade. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2025, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debit-card-pin-or-no-pin/1016452/25 "2025-04-01T22:15:50Z")
I am unfamiliar with US banking practices. I remember paying stuff with cheques. But even then nobody, especially the “belastingdienst”, was mailing me cheques. Payments just went into my account. The bank mailed me a overview every month or so. If someone wanted to pay me something they could fill in a form and mail it to their bank. That is how i paid my bills. I guess technically it would have been possible to mail a cheque to someone, but I do not believe that happened a lot. It seems an unnecessary step to mail someone a piece of paper instead of mailing it directly to the bank. These days “cheques” seem a quaint memory. Are they really still in common use? For everyone? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2025, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debit-card-pin-or-no-pin/1016452/26 "2025-04-01T22:25:24Z")
> [@The\_Librarian](#): > > Are they really still in common use? For everyone? Most US people other than the very elderly have migrated away from them except for special circumstances. Lots and lots of US business to business and government to/from business or citizen is still by paper check snail-mailed from the payor to the payee. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2025, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debit-card-pin-or-no-pin/1016452/27 "2025-04-01T22:48:07Z")
> [@The\_Librarian](#): > > Are they really still in common use? > [@LSLGuy](#): > > Most US people other than the very elderly have migrated away from them except for special circumstances. It’s a problem in healthcare, because of [extra charges on electronic fees vs paper checks](https://www.propublica.org/article/the-hidden-fee-costing-doctors-millions-every-year). This results in perverse situations like independent medical practitioners (that nonetheless may work for and through a larger hospital) insisting on being paid ONLY by paper check. I ran into this a little while ago when my mother died after a few weeks in a hospital. It was maddening. It also goes in [both directions](https://www.paymentsdive.com/news/healthcares-paper-check-disease/729204/). Though I largely agree with LSLGuy, healthcare still having substantial ties to ‘Big Paper’ ( 😉) goes beyond being a fringe case to actually being a genuine problem. ETA: The antiquated retirement system at my job (only going to go online for the first time later this year) still requires a physical paper check to confirm electronic routing for direct payment and the last check issued for employment is an actual paper check. This despite the fact I’ve had direct deposit for decades. I found this out while filling out some preliminary paperwork in preparation for retiring later this year. Why? Who the fuck knows. The retirement person just shook her head sadly when asked. ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2025, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debit-card-pin-or-no-pin/1016452/28 "2025-04-02T00:35:56Z")
> [@The\_Librarian](#): > > These days “cheques” seem a quaint memory. Are they really still in common use? For everyone? The only cheques I have written for years were for our gardener who still has a flip phone. His son finally set him up for e-transfer, so now I can just go to my banking app and send it to his cell phone number and it automatically gets deposited to his account. ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2025, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debit-card-pin-or-no-pin/1016452/29 "2025-04-02T01:20:12Z")
IIRC from relatives in the retail industry, “what’s my PIN?” was an issue maybe 5 or more years ago in Canada, now it’s rarely an issue. Everyone knows their PIN because they ahve to, and tap works fine for numbers less that a variable amount (usually about $100). I have a credit card and a debit card from my bank. The debit is not Visa branded, and AFAIK I’ve never tried to use it as a credit card, nor do I use my credit card for bank machines. I assume they are tied to the same accounts. I have a book full of cheques, but I’ve probably written 3 in the last 6 years; with everyone on the same e-Transfer, I can send to anyone whose email is set up to accept deposits (through their banking app - eTransfer option). Most merchants now have theirs set up to automatically accept transfers. I assume this is much preferred as opposed to credit cards and their usurious percentage fees. I suppose this is due to the small number of large banks in Canada, who like to cooperate on this technology. Trump is lying when he says US banks are blocked - they simply have to meet Canadian requirements for capital and liquidity, sign up for our equivalent deposit insurance, etc. Plus they’d have to join all those services like Interact and eTransfer to have any hope of competing for customers; and most customers appreciate that there is a branch of their bank locally. But it’s not impossible, there are quite a few credit unions that are part of the Canadian system too. ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2025, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debit-card-pin-or-no-pin/1016452/30 "2025-04-02T07:10:59Z")
I can’t remember the last time I wrote a cheque - it’s rare now, and probably to an individual. The govt may a bit more conservative in that respect. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2025, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debit-card-pin-or-no-pin/1016452/31 "2025-04-02T07:18:49Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > is having a Mastercard or Visa branded debit card also uniquely American Nope, same in South Africa ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2025, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debit-card-pin-or-no-pin/1016452/32 "2025-04-02T08:08:29Z")
> [@Mk\_VII](#): > > I can’t remember the last time I wrote a cheque - it’s rare now, and probably to an individual. The govt may a bit more conservative in that respect. If you’re with a UK bank, then they should have the facility on their app to bank the cheque via a photo on your phone. ---
**Author:** ![kferr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71e660/32.png) [@kferr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kferr)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2025, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debit-card-pin-or-no-pin/1016452/33 "2025-04-02T08:35:09Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > I have the option of tapping my card wirelessly on the machine for a transaction of £100 or under, or putting my card in the slot and inserting my pin for transactions over that amount. In addition, you’ll be asked to insert your card and provide a PIN after some number (maybe around 20?) of small tap to pay transactions. It’s often enough that the bank is confident that you are still you, but not often enough to become annoying. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2025, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debit-card-pin-or-no-pin/1016452/34 "2025-04-02T08:40:28Z")
True. Monzo like to do that quite a lot, I’ve noticed. ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debit-card-pin-or-no-pin/1016452/35 "2025-04-03T01:57:26Z")
> [@The\_Librarian](#): > > These days “cheques” seem a quaint memory. Are they really still in common use? For everyone? I write at least one check every two weeks, pretty much for anything I have to mail in. I understood–from some thread here, IIRC–that paper checks are still one of the most secure methods _because_ they’ve been in place for so long. But I"m not going to hold up the checkout like at Kroger to fill out a check. . . I only use my debit card if I’m standing right at the POS terminal (or at a restaurant, I hand it to a server). I change debit card numbers frequently enough that I’m not concerned if it gets compromised after a year or so (not that I use it in shady places). Tripler I’m not that old, 'neither. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debit-card-pin-or-no-pin/1016452/36 "2025-04-03T02:14:40Z")
They are actually quite insecure – anyone with a photo of your check can steal money from your account. > **[Keep your finances safe and secure: Essential tips for preventing check fraud](https://www.usbank.com/financialiq/manage-your-household/protect-your-assets/essential-tips-for-preventing-check-fraud.html)** > > Check fraud itself isn't new, but it’s been on the rise and fraudsters are finding new ways to scam consumers with fraudulent checks. Get the latest information to help you protect yourself. that last point: - **Keep your bank account information safe.** Don’t share or post your bank account information anywhere publicly, and never share account information with anyone with whom you did not initiate the communication. Do not allow websites to save your routing/transit and account number information. is they key vulnerability. Your account number and your bank’s routing number are printed on each check. Don’t give checks to people you don’t trust. ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debit-card-pin-or-no-pin/1016452/37 "2025-04-03T02:19:43Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > They are actually quite insecure – anyone with a photo of your check can steal money from your account. . . Well shoot, I see your point. I’m not all willy-nilly with the things, but I do only use them with reputable corporations I have an existing relationship with. Tripler I stand corrected. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debit-card-pin-or-no-pin/1016452/38 "2025-04-03T13:52:03Z")
Having your bank pay your bills from your checking account is far _more_ secure than snail mailing checks to the cable company, phone company, car loan, car insurance, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debit-card-pin-or-no-pin/1016452/39 "2025-04-03T14:52:23Z")
I’m typically writing checks to two entities: my church, and my County (for utilities). Other annual memberships, like PBS & the VFW get once-a-year checks that I just haven’t figured out how to have my bank mail a check along with the li’l membership slip that comes with the renewal forms; it’s just more straightforward for me to write that paper check, and make sure it clears within two weeks. Healthcare is the same thing. My bank has been extremely solid on working with me when checks went missing (i.e. Ford Motor Company “lost” three checks when I had payments). My practice is only to have _just enough_ money in that specific account to cover any checks in float. I _ **absolutely** _ hear you @LSLGuy and @puzzlegal. I fully recognize I’ve been lucky so far. . . Now my _second_ church, (Lord Stanley and his League) and his prophet (ESPN) get their tithe by secure, recurring debit card charges. Tripler Stuck in the 1980s. ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debit-card-pin-or-no-pin/1016452/40 "2025-04-03T14:57:58Z")
> [@Tripler](#): > > Other annual memberships, like PBS & the VFW get once-a-year checks that I just haven’t figured out how to have my bank mail a check along with the li’l membership slip that comes with the renewal forms; I’ve never understood how the country at the centre of the global financial system is this backward. If I want to pay my water bill, I can log onto my bank web site, add a payee, enter my account number, and then pay $X on y date. The money is transferred electronically on the date I specified. If they aren’t setup for bill payment, I can just send the e-transfer to their email. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debit-card-pin-or-no-pin/1016452.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debit-card-pin-or-no-pin/1016452.md?page=3)