# debt amounts and other stuff **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 22, 2013, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debt-amounts-and-other-stuff/653680 "2013-03-22T17:50:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![ubyy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/848f3c/32.png) [@ubyy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ubyy)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debt-amounts-and-other-stuff/653680/101 "2013-03-22T21:56:36Z")
> [@ubyy](#): > > It is evidence that the stoms in the past were just as powerful, 1900 Galvenston texas completely wiped out. 1938 NyC, hurricane, cat 3 killed 200 with less dense population, not this weak “super storm sandy”. Storm surge of 11 ft, when in the 1920, still considering NYC, storm surge of 13 ft. > > your facts just dont add up. but believe what you wish. There will be global warming one day, called the tribulation. but we shall see what pans out. > > HHHHAAAAHHHH, TARP, did bush write this bill 12 year old? Who had the HOUSE AND SENATE during those years…HELLO get a clue > [@Procrustus](#): > > I don’t see any reason to believe the aborted babies, had they been allowed the right to life, would be “loyal US citizens.” I’m guessing at least 47% of them would be worthless irresponsible democrats who could not be persuaded to take responsibility for their lives. maybe, but I still think loyal US citizens. Would be nice if people would take responsibility for thier own lives and not expect others to take care of them. I am all for helping people help themselves, but too many just take and give nothing back, just take more again. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debt-amounts-and-other-stuff/653680/102 "2013-03-22T21:57:02Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I don’t see any reason to believe the aborted babies, had they been allowed the right to life, would be “loyal US citizens.” I’m guessing at least 47% of them would be worthless irresponsible democrats who could not be persuaded to take responsibility for their lives. No no no, the only women who would possibly get abortions are poor trashy union-supporting whores who vote Democratic and expect the government to support their other illegitimate babies while they buy Gucci purses and get free Obamaphones so most of their dead babies would probably end up the same. Duh! ---
**Author:** ![ubyy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/848f3c/32.png) [@ubyy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ubyy)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debt-amounts-and-other-stuff/653680/103 "2013-03-22T21:59:05Z")
Fannie Mae Eases Credit To Aid Mortgage Lending By STEVEN A. HOLMES Published: September 30, 1999 NEW YORK TIMES In a move that could help increase home ownership rates among minorities and low-income consumers, the Fannie Mae Corporation is easing the credit requirements on loans that it will purchase from banks and other lenders. The action, which will begin as a pilot program involving 24 banks in 15 markets – including the New York metropolitan region – will encourage those banks to extend home mortgages to individuals whose credit is generally not good enough to qualify for conventional loans. Fannie Mae officials say they hope to make it a nationwide program by next spring. Fannie Mae, the nation’s biggest underwriter of home mortgages, has been under increasing pressure from the Clinton Administration to expand mortgage loans among low and moderate income people and felt pressure from stock holders to maintain its phenomenal growth in profits. ---
**Author:** ![ataraxy22](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ataraxy22/32/307_2.png) [@ataraxy22](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ataraxy22)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debt-amounts-and-other-stuff/653680/104 "2013-03-22T21:59:12Z")
This thread has added a much needed kooky element to my day. ---
**Author:** ![ubyy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/848f3c/32.png) [@ubyy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ubyy)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debt-amounts-and-other-stuff/653680/105 "2013-03-22T22:00:06Z")
oops, I must have made a mistake, it isnt FOX news ---
**Author:** ![ubyy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/848f3c/32.png) [@ubyy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ubyy)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debt-amounts-and-other-stuff/653680/106 "2013-03-22T22:01:23Z")
How about this European Report: Again my appologies for not being from FOX NEWS [http://www](http://www). [iccfglobal.org/pdf/Country-reports-overview](http://iccfglobal.org/pdf/Country-reports-overview). pdf THE COST OF THE KYOTO PROTOCOL Moving Forward on Climate Change Policy While Preserving Economic Growth 1. BACKGROUND The Kyoto Protocol entered into force as an international treaty for those countries that had ratified it on February 16, 2005. The International Council for Capital Formation (ICCF) has published a series of in-depth studies, analysing the broader economic repercussions of adopting Kyoto for the UK, Germany, Italy and Spain and specifically its impact for each nation on: • Carbon dioxide emissions • Energy consumption • Energy prices • Gross domestic product (GDP) • Employment levels For copies of the individual country reports on Italy, Spain and the UK, please visit the ICCF website at www .iccfglobal. org. The German report will be available on November 15. 2. OVERVIEW The analysis, which was prepared by Global Insight Inc. an international economic modelling firm, assumes that the cost of emission allowances under Kyoto would be passed along to consumers in the form of higher energy prices and ultimately high prices for all goods and services. Consumers’ purchasing power would be reduced by the higher cost of using energy, reducing real disposable income. Output and employment losses would also be expected because: • energy-using equipment and vehicles would be made prematurely obsolete • consumers would be rattled by rapid increases in living costs • financial ministers concerned over possible inflation would most likely need to target more slack in the economy to deflate non-energy prices and thus stabilize the overall price environment. Consumption and residential fixed investment would be the hardest hit components of real GDP because of the direct loss in real disposable income. The economy’s potential to produce would fall below Base Case levels initially with the cut back in energy usage, since energy is a key factor of production. Stronger investment would be required over the longer-term to build capital as a substitute for this lost factor. The decline in consumption and residential fixed investment relative to Base Case levels, however, would have a depressing impact on business fixed investment in the near-term. Labour productivity would decline because the other factors of production would be less efficient. Only as investment grows and the capital stock is expanded would productivity begin to improve. Post 2012, the impact on economic performance would begin to lessen if the target emission level under the Kyoto Protocol were maintained. The extreme change in the energy prices experienced during the years between 2008 and 2012 would not be repeated. While the percentage change in prices relative to the baseline would increase somewhat, the year-over-year change in prices would be reduced. However, achieving targets that are even more aggressive, would take ever larger carbon fees, and would continue to take a significant toll on economic performance. For example, if countries were to adopt a post 2012 target of a 60 percent reduction in CO2 by 2050, Italian industry would pay 54 percent more for natural gas in 2020 and UK industry would pay 57 percent more (Figure 1). Figure 1 – Electricity and gas prices 2010: KYOTO TARGET 2020: 60% below 2000 levels by 2050 Figure 2 – GDP -4-3.5-3-2.5-2-1.5-1-0.50GermanyUKSpainItalyGermanyUKSpainItalyReal GDP - % Difference from BaselineKyoto Target60% Below 2000 Levels by 205020102020 2 Figure 3 – Employment -800-700-600-500-400-300-200-1000ItalyGermanyUKSpainItalyUKGermanySpainThousands of JobsKyoto Target60% Below 2000 Levels by 205020102020 3. IMPACT OF KYOTO ON ENERGY CONSUMPTION Domestic Sector • Dramatically higher energy prices would force consumers to cut energy consumption. • Since there is only limited opportunity to substitute more energy efficient appliances and furnaces for the period 2008-2012, consumers would reduce their consumption of energy services. • Longer term, consumers would attempt to replace some of these services by replacing their energy consuming equipment. Industry Sector • Industry would respond to the dramatically higher prices through several mechanisms: Power Sector • The imposition of carbon permits would lead to extremely large increases in the delivered price of electricity, particularly to the industrial sector. • Imposition of ever decreasing carbon permit levels would set in motion dramatic changes in this sector. • Coal use would decline, slowly at first and then rapidly, as the price drove electricity prices up, reducing demand and encouraging the substitution of natural gas or renewables. 3 • Investment in natural gas fired generating capacity would alleviate some of the pressure on electricity prices, but with the ever increasing stringency of the target, investment in end-use efficiency would need to be as great or greater than improvements in power supply efficiency. • For this analysis, it was assumed that nuclear and hydroelectric energy would not change. Transportation Sector • Due to the high taxes already in place on transportation fuels, the percentage change in price due to the addition of the carbon permit fees is less than the change in price in other sectors. • Longer term, the permit price would have to be high enough to reduce energy use in this sector as the target tightens. ---
**Author:** ![ubyy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/848f3c/32.png) [@ubyy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ubyy)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debt-amounts-and-other-stuff/653680/107 "2013-03-22T22:04:28Z")
The International Council for Capital Formation (ICCF) is that source ---
**Author:** ![ubyy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/848f3c/32.png) [@ubyy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ubyy)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debt-amounts-and-other-stuff/653680/108 "2013-03-22T22:06:03Z")
How about Wikipedia, they are fox listeners right? > **[Kyoto Protocol](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyoto_Protocol)** > > Lists > Categories > The Kyoto Protocol (Japanese: 京都議定書, Hepburn: Kyōto Giteisho) was an international treaty which extended the 1992 United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC) that commits state parties to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, based on the scientific consensus that global warming is occurring and that human-made CO2 emissions are driving it. The Kyoto Protocol was adopted in Kyoto, Japan, on 11 December 1997 and entered into force on 16 February 2005. There were ... ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debt-amounts-and-other-stuff/653680/109 "2013-03-22T22:07:25Z")
You already posted that stuff, **ubyy** , so I don’t know why you are posting it again. And pay attention to our copyright rules: don’t report large pieces of text written by others. Use short quotes and link to the rest. ---
**Author:** ![ubyy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/848f3c/32.png) [@ubyy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ubyy)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debt-amounts-and-other-stuff/653680/110 "2013-03-22T22:09:42Z")
or maybe this ever loving conservative group from europe…or wherever, It is easy to find these reports on the net from all over the world, but keep up your denial. > [@](#): > > Putin signals Russia will sign Kyoto Protocol for WTO membership > > Vladimir Putin addressing EU leaders in Moscow last month after his government has endorseds the protocol.ReutersRelated articles > Putin’s cabinet gives Kyoto the green light(01/10-2004) Reversing months of official opposition, Russian President Vladimir Putin signalled Friday that Moscow would ratify the Kyoto climate change treaty in exchange for European support for Russia’s bid to join the World Trade Organization, or WTO, a breakthrough that could revive the long-stalled pact designed to curb global warming and limiting greenhouse gasses. [http://www.bellona.org/english\_import\_area/energy/34179](http://www.bellona.org/english_import_area/energy/34179) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debt-amounts-and-other-stuff/653680/111 "2013-03-22T22:10:38Z")
Reminder: > [@Marley23](#): > > You already posted that stuff, **ubyy** , so I don’t know why you are posting it again. And pay attention to our copyright rules: don’t report large pieces of text written by others. Use short quotes and link to the rest. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debt-amounts-and-other-stuff/653680/112 "2013-03-22T22:12:02Z")
Hey, ubyy… who killed JFK? ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debt-amounts-and-other-stuff/653680/113 "2013-03-22T22:12:29Z")
Taking bets on what conspiracy **ubyy** claims to be behind it when a moderator comes along and deletes every full-length article cut-and-pasted here due to copyright violations? (I’ll put money on “all of the conspiracies.”) Edit: Damn my lack of cell signal; I missed the chastisement! I blame the Illuminati. ---
**Author:** ![ubyy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/848f3c/32.png) [@ubyy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ubyy)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debt-amounts-and-other-stuff/653680/114 "2013-03-22T22:13:57Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > You already posted that stuff, **ubyy** , so I don’t know why you are posting it again. And pay attention to our copyright rules: don’t report large pieces of text written by others. Use short quotes and link to the rest. Sorry, I will, I thought that having them credited took care of the copy wrights, free on the net, all from google searches. My point is just to get people to do research on their own. We are getting really hosed here and noone is paying attention and the national networks including FOX wont let you see this. But it happened without a doubt and highly publicized when it started out. but people have live to live and the socialsits like it that way, thus why they want your guns. It is all about control over you, us, all of us democrat or republican, they just like to pits us against each other with their deceptions. Rich are on both sides, and by that i am talking about the megabillionaires ---
**Author:** ![Robb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a183cd/32.png) [@Robb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robb)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debt-amounts-and-other-stuff/653680/115 "2013-03-22T22:16:14Z")
\*\*ubyy[/], God doesn’t want you to be wealthy in this life. It is satan who hopes you become rich. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debt-amounts-and-other-stuff/653680/116 "2013-03-22T22:17:57Z")
> [@ubyy](#): > > took care of the copy wrights Good job. Now go take care of the copy wights. Those are mean little buggers. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debt-amounts-and-other-stuff/653680/117 "2013-03-22T22:18:20Z")
> [@ubyy](#): > > You can pull verses out of context to try to get them to say whatever you want Hey! That’s exactly what fundamentalists do! I think you are on to something. ---
**Author:** ![ubyy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/848f3c/32.png) [@ubyy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ubyy)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debt-amounts-and-other-stuff/653680/118 "2013-03-22T22:18:43Z")
Bryan, dont know, do you? I didnt write these reports, but they are out there. Are you denying that the UN Kyoto accord is real? Are you denying that clinton pressured fannie mae? are you denying the bank bailout? how about the fact that our debt is over $16 trillion OK, show me your proof…OH I know…Bush did it, it is all his fault, like the gas prices being so high, OH wait a minute, Bush has not been in office in over 4 years, it must be a miracle, magic or something…OH and the was was all about oil, wait where did those syrians get those chemical weapons they are using?..hum, just wondering. ---
**Author:** ![ubyy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/848f3c/32.png) [@ubyy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ubyy)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debt-amounts-and-other-stuff/653680/119 "2013-03-22T22:21:41Z")
ok, enjoy your bankrupcy just keep your heads in the sand like good little liberals, but remember you get to pay the same high prices I do. Who owns you national media? Filthy rich liberals except for FOX then it is filthy rich moderates. funny noone commented on the youtube video of Obama saying he want to bankrupt coal. interesting, not really, i expect it. Liberals dont do research, ever. ---
**Author:** ![ubyy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/848f3c/32.png) [@ubyy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ubyy)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debt-amounts-and-other-stuff/653680/120 "2013-03-22T22:23:26Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Hey! That’s exactly what fundamentalists do! I think you are on to something. actually fundamentalists are fundamentalists becasue they dont take them out of context thus the fundamentals, hello. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debt-amounts-and-other-stuff/653680.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debt-amounts-and-other-stuff/653680.md?page=7)