# Debunk (or not?) this pro-Bernie post about Nevada **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 17, 2016, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunk-or-not-this-pro-bernie-post-about-nevada/754945 "2016-05-17T00:07:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunk-or-not-this-pro-bernie-post-about-nevada/754945/1 "2016-05-17T00:07:03Z")
I got the following my FB feed. Can anyone fill any details? Is this a remotely fair description of what happened? > [@](#): > > This happened tonight in Las Vegas: > > After 1725 duely elected Bernie Delegates showed up to the Nevada state convention and were told: > > - 64 of them were barred from participating with no explanation. > > - A motion was brought to the floor by the DNC chairwoman to retroactively change the nevada primary rules to give a victory to Hillary instead of to Bernie (who had stood as the winner by all counts when this day began). > > To “democratically” enact this the chairwoman called for a ‘voice vote’ and although the ‘nays’ far outweighed the ‘yeas’ she declared it a ‘yea’ and the rules retroactively changed against Bernie. > > When a motion was brought to the floor to unseat the chairwoman and it looked like it would succeed she adjourned the meeting without follwing the rules and declared Hillary the victor just as she ran off stage behind a wall of state police just moments before this picture was taken. > > These Bernie delgates stuck it out until after midnight today despite having started at 10 am this morning. They were sustained by 275 pizzas ordered for them from people all over the world and as far away as australia watching the proceedings on live stream. > > It is only because The People are stepping into their own power, raising their voice, that the charade that is the democratic party primary has had its undemocratic mechanisms and corruption exposed. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunk-or-not-this-pro-bernie-post-about-nevada/754945/2 "2016-05-17T00:11:44Z")
[Here is the KOLO News 8 story](http://www.kolotv.com/content/news/Democrats-weigh-in-on-presidential-race-at-Nevada-convention-379528701.html) about the incident. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunk-or-not-this-pro-bernie-post-about-nevada/754945/3 "2016-05-17T00:27:08Z")
FWIW [the abc news report](http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/security-concerns-end-nevada-democrats-convention-39134128). > [@](#): > > The Nevada Democratic Convention turned into an unruly and unpredictable event, after tension with organizers led to some Bernie Sanders supporters throwing chairs and to security clearing the room, organizers said. > > Friction between Bernie Sanders’ supporters and state Democratic Party leaders had flared throughout the day on Saturday. The convention was scheduled to end by 7 p.m. and when it hadn’t wrapped up by 10 p.m., authorities at the Paris Las Vegas casino informed party organizers they could no longer provide the security necessary to handle the crowd. … > > … The hostilities began when Sanders supporters accused state party leaders of putting them at a disadvantage, and they objected to procedural votes to approve the rules of the event on Saturday. They also questioned a credentials committee’s disqualification of 58 would-be Sanders delegates. State party officials said the would-be delegates didn’t provide acceptable identification and did not meet the May 1 deadline to register as Democrats. > > State party officials said some Clinton-supporting delegates were ruled ineligible too, although in lower numbers. … > > … Some Sanders supporters upset with Saturday’s proceedings protested against state party chairwoman, Roberta Lange, outside the Nevada State Democratic Party headquarters on Sunday. Her cellphone number was posted on social media and officials said Lange had received hundreds of phone calls and text messages, including death threats. … I was not there but that’s the reporting of it. Really? Death threats? Wow. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunk-or-not-this-pro-bernie-post-about-nevada/754945/4 "2016-05-17T00:44:45Z")
It may be that the anger stems from a [false belief](http://www.snopes.com/bernie-sanders-won-nevada/) by some of Team Sanders that they had successfully outmaneuvered team Clinton and managed a delegate win in Nevada despite losing the vote on caucus day. > [@snopes](#): > > CLAIM: A month after Hillary Clinton was declared the winner of Nevada’s caucuses, Bernie Sanders retroactively collected more delegates to win the state. > > WHAT’S TRUE: Bernie Sanders achieved a surprise victory at the Clark County Democratic Convention on 2 April 2016, and it’s possible (but not guaranteed) that he will be awarded more national delegates based on the outcome of that single county’s convention. > > WHAT’S FALSE: Sanders did not belatedly achieve a favorable result that applies statewide, nor did he reverse or “flip” the overall Nevada caucus results to a win. … > > … In short, Sanders did gather more support in Nevada at the second-tier Clark County convention on 2 April 2016, and most predictions hold that the events of that day will likely apportion two more delegates to Sanders. However, the county convention did not nullify the outcome of the 20 February 2016 caucus, and while Sanders did improve his campaign’s standing in Nevada, he didn’t “flip” Nevada in his favor, as Nevada’s final “delegate math” won’t be decided until the state convention on 14 May 2016. … So apparently they went in believing they had this “win” (as the poster on your FB seemed to believe as well) … actually a win against the democratic process, but hey rules are rules … and when it turned out that some of those delegates they picked up in the second round were actually not qualified as delegates and the win they did not have turned out to pretty much be no gain on results of election day they got pissed. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunk-or-not-this-pro-bernie-post-about-nevada/754945/5 "2016-05-17T01:00:38Z")
[Here’s the NYT version.](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/17/us/politics/bernie-sanders-supporters-nevada.html) > [@](#): > > “It’s been vile,” said Ms. Lange, who riled Sanders supporters by refusing their requests for rule changes at the event in Las Vegas. “It’s been threatening messages, threatening my family, threatening my life, threatening my grandchild.” … > > … Although Hillary Clinton won the Nevada caucuses in February, the Sanders campaign worked hard to win delegates at county conventions and was hopeful that it could emerge from the state with an equal number of delegates or more. But the state convention, held at the Paris Las Vegas Hotel, deteriorated into chaos after nearly 60 of Mr. Sanders’s potential delegates were deemed ineligible amid a dispute over the rules. The convention concluded abruptly after security staff no longer felt it could ensure the safety of the participants, many of whom were yelling and throwing things. … > > … The threats, which came from men and women from across the country, were haunting and personal. > > “Loved how you broke the system,” one person wrote in a text message that said he or she knew where Ms. Lange’s grandchildren went to school. “Prepare for hell. Calls won’t stop.” > > Another person left a voice mail message saying he thought Ms. Lange should be “hung in public execution” for her actions. > > “I’m scared for my family,” Ms. Lange said. “Scared for my kids.” … Sanders’ response so far is by way of a spokesperson. > [@](#): > > “The senator believes that the Democratic Party all over the country would serve its own interests better if it were to figure out a way to welcome people who have been energized and excited by his campaign into the party,” Mr. Briggs said. “It would behoove the party to be more welcoming and engage those people.” Speaking as a member of “the party”, those particular people we can do without and such should be made clear by all, including him. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunk-or-not-this-pro-bernie-post-about-nevada/754945/6 "2016-05-17T03:35:09Z")
Wow. I feel lucky that Democratic Party officials in my district have been supportive of the Bernie movement. I can see how that could get ugly quick. Death threats are a bit much, yeah. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunk-or-not-this-pro-bernie-post-about-nevada/754945/7 "2016-05-17T03:43:53Z")
Heavens to Betsy! Hillary won the primary and got more delegates? UNFAIR! ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunk-or-not-this-pro-bernie-post-about-nevada/754945/8 "2016-05-17T03:53:14Z")
Expect this to continue, and get worse, until Sanders finally concedes. The more desperate the odds get, the harder his core supporters are going to fight. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunk-or-not-this-pro-bernie-post-about-nevada/754945/9 "2016-05-17T03:59:10Z")
Here’s a description of what happened from a Nevada congressional candidate who was at the convention. He seems to be a calm rational individual (as opposed to the idiots making death threats) but obviously it’s his spin so take it for what it’s worth. [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_7c0I8ODKw) ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunk-or-not-this-pro-bernie-post-about-nevada/754945/10 "2016-05-17T04:10:35Z")
Then there’s this: [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ka6SnkbuUPI) The no votes sound louder to me but I wouldn’t swear to it. It seems like there should be a better way to take a vote on such things. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunk-or-not-this-pro-bernie-post-about-nevada/754945/11 "2016-05-17T05:15:20Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > To “democratically” enact this the chairwoman called for a ‘voice vote’ and although the ‘nays’ far outweighed the ‘yeas’ she declared it a ‘yea’ and the rules retroactively changed against Bernie. The proper procedure then is for someone to call for a “division” – a counted vote, which will then show which position had the majority. If nobody did that at the time, then the vote result as announced stands. I’ve been an official at several such Conventions this spring, and this frequently happens. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunk-or-not-this-pro-bernie-post-about-nevada/754945/12 "2016-05-17T05:21:49Z")
There’s also talk that some delegates had their registrations “mysteriously and accidentally” altered that prevented them from voting. Hint hint. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunk-or-not-this-pro-bernie-post-about-nevada/754945/13 "2016-05-17T05:53:29Z")
According to the man in the video I posted in post #9 a lot of delegates were late because there was inadequate parking. Technically, by the rules, tough luck for them; but if true it hardly seems Democratic to dismiss them for being late when it wasn’t their fault. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunk-or-not-this-pro-bernie-post-about-nevada/754945/14 "2016-05-17T06:03:45Z")
With Hillary’s sizable advantage, these shenanigans would be _unnecessary_, no? ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunk-or-not-this-pro-bernie-post-about-nevada/754945/15 "2016-05-17T06:25:55Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > According to the man in the video I posted in post #9 a lot of delegates were late because there was inadequate parking. Technically, by the rules, tough luck for them; but if true it hardly seems Democratic to dismiss them for being late when it wasn’t their fault. Each Delegate has an Alternate. If the delegate is not there by the Credentials report, an alternate who is present can be seated in place of them. (Usually, the alternates are supporting the same candidate.) But if the delegate arrives later, they get to take their place, and the alternate is taken off the floor. But to make this work for your candidate, you have to be organized enough to have your alternates present on time, and to know who & where they are when needed. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunk-or-not-this-pro-bernie-post-about-nevada/754945/16 "2016-05-17T07:22:24Z")
It does sound like the Sanders campaign may not have been as organized as it should have been. If I’m a delegate, for whoever, I would make sure to be there VERY early, possibly even getting a room in the hotel. In fact, it strikes me that the campaign should have gotten rooms in that hotel for it’s delegates. He’s apparently still bringing in plenty of money. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunk-or-not-this-pro-bernie-post-about-nevada/754945/17 "2016-05-17T07:24:40Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > With Hillary’s sizable advantage, these shenanigans would be _unnecessary_, no? Right. Why not bend over backwards to be fair? She’s winning anyway and the last thing they should want to do is alienate Sanders’ supporters for the general. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunk-or-not-this-pro-bernie-post-about-nevada/754945/18 "2016-05-17T08:33:10Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Right. Why not bend over backwards to be fair? She’s winning anyway and the last thing they should want to do is alienate Sanders’ supporters for the general. Yep… It’s all Hillary’s fault:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunk-or-not-this-pro-bernie-post-about-nevada/754945/19 "2016-05-17T10:55:20Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > … the last thing they should want to do is alienate Sanders’ supporters for the general. I do not believe that the Sander supporting delegates at the Nevada convention are in any way representative of those who supported Sanders across the country. Those _particular_ relatively few supporters I very seriously do not want on the same team that I am on. I have seen much through this primary process that has been nothing less than misinformation campaigns by some who identify as Sanders supporters via social media to other Sander supporters making all sorts of absurd claims of Team Clinton orchestrating complicated cheats rather than accepting that they simply lost. Yeah, in this case over at _most_ maybe a two delegate shift, that could potentially have changed Nevada from 20 to 15 Clinton to 18 to 17 Clinton. The concern now being expressed is that some of these particular sorts of supporters, the sorts who throw chairs and make death threats when they believe that a vote against them must have been “unfair”, are represented as delegates going to the convention, where their perception will be that the only “fair” convention outcome will be if not having the superdelegates en masse over-rule the pledged delegate and popular vote results and give Sanders the nomination, then minimally having Clinton adopt all of his policy positions. This election can be lost. Pandering to a few who would resort to threats of various sorts if they do not get all that they want is not a way to win it, but I do fear that some of this sort of behavior becoming the media focus at the national convention can do great harm. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunk-or-not-this-pro-bernie-post-about-nevada/754945/20 "2016-05-17T11:18:15Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > **It does sound like the Sanders campaign may not have been as organized as it should have been.** If I’m a delegate, for whoever, I would make sure to be there VERY early, possibly even getting a room in the hotel. > In fact, it strikes me that the campaign should have gotten rooms in that hotel for it’s delegates. He’s apparently still bringing in plenty of money. Bingo! And yet Bernie Sanders wants us to believe that they’re competent and ready to run trillions of dollars of public bureaucracy. The reason why most ‘revolutions’ typically fail over the long term is that, in the end, the urgency of a revolution is quickly replaced with the necessity of administration and governing, which revolutions often know nothing about. While will always admire Bernie for his passion and while I do want him to have a voice at the convention and beyond, it is beyond clear that he has no business running the country and he really ought to do everyone a favor and get out of the way before he damages Clinton’s chances beyond repair. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunk-or-not-this-pro-bernie-post-about-nevada/754945.md?page=2)