# Debunk (or not?) this pro-Bernie post about Nevada **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 17, 2016, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunk-or-not-this-pro-bernie-post-about-nevada/754945 "2016-05-17T00:07:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunk-or-not-this-pro-bernie-post-about-nevada/754945/21 "2016-05-17T11:59:36Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Bingo! … Nah. I cannot fault them for that too much. No side is without execution missteps. Kudos to his having ground troops that were organized enough to get more state delegates in Clarke county despite having lost the actual vote there, and a ding on Team Clinton that they could not get their people there to the second round. A bigger ding on her because her team has done this before while more of Sanders shock troops are relatively new to the game. As president he’d have gotten good experienced people in and delegated much of the day to day business of administration and governing, just like Clinton will. Yeah some of those state delegates they got did not have the follow through, but some did. His team executed moderately well. The simple fact is that more people who vote in the Democratic primaries and caucuses have prefered Clinton, including in Nevada, and it is hard to win when dealt that hand. His representative spinning people throwing chairs and making death threats as “people who have been energized and excited by his campaign” and that it behooves "the party to be more welcoming and engage those people.” … that’s another thing. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunk-or-not-this-pro-bernie-post-about-nevada/754945/22 "2016-05-17T12:16:17Z")
[Wonkette has a pretty awesome, and hilarious, take](http://wonkette.com/601848/bernie-sanders-fans-take-massive-dump-on-nevada-democratic-convention-floor) on this imbroglio: > [@](#): > > [W]hile Hillary’s worst voters (NOT ALL OF THEM, JUST THE WORST) have a tendency to not understand sarcasm and schoolmarm you to death WHEN YOU WERE JOKING, Bernie’s worst voters (NOT ALL OF THEM, JUST THE WORST) have an opposite tendency, and that is to be a fascist shitbag who can suck on my balls. > > And so you had the images of aggressive, threatening men screaming at children and black women for daring to attend a Hillary rally in East LA, and now you have the Nevada state convention.[…] > > But at the state convention, about an equal number of Hillary Clinton’s folks showed up as did Bernie Sanders’s. And of the Bernie folks who showed up, sixty had unregistered as Democrats. Whoops that meant they were not allowed to vote at the DEMOCRATIC convention! So fixed! Many corruptions! Oh god I hate everyone. > > So then they went insane. They screamed at Barbara Boxer that she was a sellout bitch and did their best to boo the four-foot-nothing liberal grandma lion off the stage. They did their goddamndest to shut the whole thing down, because how is it even kosher for Hillary Clinton to get more delegates just because she won, when they had stolen it fair and square?[…] > > Take a moment, if you please, to imagine the opposite scenario: that Bernie wins the caucus, Hillary supporters show up when Bernie fans don’t at some secondary event, and she wins all the delegates. I think we might (rightfully!) have a lake-full of steaming pigshit on our hands. But in this scenario — the one where reality is happening — not being able to overturn the democratic results via machine chicanery is, in Bernie supporters’ fever dreams, the day democracy died.[…] > > Anyway, Hillary still only ended up with 20 delegates to Bernie’s 15. It’s not like he got vote-curb-stomped, which would definitely be against The Rules. ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunk-or-not-this-pro-bernie-post-about-nevada/754945/23 "2016-05-17T12:39:21Z")
Voice votes when things are close are always a bad idea, for exactly this reason: it seems like the will of the group might be being thwarted. So. Poor execution by the Clinton forces. But good lord, all this whining about the People in the text quoted by the OP? Do they have no sense of delicious irony? (Well no, they probably don’t) Complaining about The People being thwarted in a quest to overturn the clear will of the people of Nevada, who by a six point margin chose Clinton…sigh. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunk-or-not-this-pro-bernie-post-about-nevada/754945/24 "2016-05-17T13:34:58Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > Yep… > It’s all Hillary’s fault:rolleyes: No. Not Hillary. The local Democrats in Nevada. And I don’t know that they were even at fault, just making the point that they maybe could have been a little more accommodating. But I wasn’t there so who knows? ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunk-or-not-this-pro-bernie-post-about-nevada/754945/25 "2016-05-17T16:33:20Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > And yet Bernie Sanders wants us to believe that they’re competent and ready to run trillions of dollars of public bureaucracy. The reason why most ‘revolutions’ typically fail over the long term is that, in the end, the urgency of a revolution is quickly replaced with the necessity of administration and governing, which revolutions often know nothing about. While will always admire Bernie for his passion and while I do want him to have a voice at the convention and beyond, it is beyond clear that he has no business running the country and he really ought to do everyone a favor and get out of the way before he damages Clinton’s chances beyond repair. The people running local campaigns are not the same people who would be running the country if Bernie won. (Actually, most of it is run by experienced government officials in the various departments. Bernie has said that if the politicians would leave them alone to run their departments, they mostly know what they’re doing.) And remember that Bernie started out as Mayor of a small town. People from that background know that poor delivery of actual government services, like potholes or bad garbage collection or slow snowplowing that will get you kicked out of office faster than any big ‘issues’. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunk-or-not-this-pro-bernie-post-about-nevada/754945/26 "2016-05-17T17:06:27Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > I do not believe that the Sander supporting delegates at the Nevada convention are in any way representative of those who supported Sanders across the country. Those _particular_ relatively few supporters I very seriously do not want on the same team that I am on. I’ve seen a bumper sticker: _Jesus, save me from your followers!_ I think this applies to a lot of movements. There often seem to be people involved who aren’t very pleasant. (And often the loudest, most forward ones.) ## At our Precinct Caucuses, several Saunders organizers came with an obvious chip on their shoulder. They were rude & annoying to our volunteers who were convening the caucuses (and overwhelmed by the turnout). These people were convinced that everything was ‘rigged’ for Clinton – here in one of the most liberal parts of the liberal state of Minnesota! Four of our 5 District Officers were actually Saunders supporters, and the district went for Saunders by about 70%. But many of our volunteers came away really annoyed at ‘the Saunders campaign’ because of the behavior of some of their people. But I disagree with you on “do not want on the same team”. I want my team to win the election, so I want as many as possible on it. Even if some of them are jerks! Their vote counts the same. We had some stickers around: _I’m voting blue, no matter who_. They were snapped up very quickly. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunk-or-not-this-pro-bernie-post-about-nevada/754945/27 "2016-05-17T19:20:12Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > I’ve seen a bumper sticker: > _Jesus, save me from your followers!_ > > I think this applies to a lot of movements. There often seem to be people involved who aren’t very pleasant. (And often the loudest, most forward ones.) > > ## At our Precinct Caucuses, several Saunders organizers came with an obvious chip on their shoulder. They were rude & annoying to our volunteers who were convening the caucuses (and overwhelmed by the turnout). These people were convinced that everything was ‘rigged’ for Clinton – here in one of the most liberal parts of the liberal state of Minnesota! Four of our 5 District Officers were actually Saunders supporters, and the district went for Saunders by about 70%. But many of our volunteers came away really annoyed at ‘the Saunders campaign’ because of the behavior of some of their people. > > But I disagree with you on “do not want on the same team”. I want my team to win the election, so I want as many as possible on it. Even if some of them are jerks! Their vote counts the same. > We had some stickers around: _I’m voting blue, no matter who_. They were snapped up very quickly. I hate to be “that guy,” but since you’ve said it 4 times…it’s “Sanders.” ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunk-or-not-this-pro-bernie-post-about-nevada/754945/28 "2016-05-18T08:32:19Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > In fact, it strikes me that the campaign should have gotten rooms in that hotel for it’s delegates. He’s apparently still bringing in plenty of money. > [@asahi](#): > > And yet Bernie Sanders wants us to believe that they’re competent and ready to run trillions of dollars of public bureaucracy. :dubious: Hillary isn’t paying for her delegates’ hotel rooms either. At this level, it’s basically a bunch of middle-class volunteers spending their own money. And if you don’t think a certain minority of “Clinton moderates” can be nasty to those they see as filthy hippie leftists, you aren’t paying attention. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunk-or-not-this-pro-bernie-post-about-nevada/754945/29 "2016-05-18T09:00:48Z")
Yeah I’m counting the death threats now… Har. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunk-or-not-this-pro-bernie-post-about-nevada/754945/30 "2016-05-18T09:14:22Z")
[An interesting document](https://www.scribd.com/doc/312844982/160516-Letter-DNC-RBC-NVDemsConvention) providing the NV Dem’s point of view on this. ETA: I’ve seen the videos. I’ve read the reporting, but domestic and foreign. I’ve seen the outraged memes on Facebook. It looks to me like Bernie’s supporters massively fucked it up this time. I see no coordinated wrong-doing on the part of the NV Dems; they’re guilty at worst of ineffective organization. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunk-or-not-this-pro-bernie-post-about-nevada/754945/31 "2016-05-18T10:43:58Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > … And if you don’t think a certain minority of “Clinton moderates” can be nasty to those they see as filthy hippie leftists, you aren’t paying attention. Let us imagine this certain number of “Clinton moderates” actually throwing chairs and making death threats against “those they see as filthy hippie leftists” … Clinton’s response to that would be the issue. If questioned about that she responded that well those people getting the death threats are responsible for it because they were not welcoming enough … then she would be, rightly, pilloried. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunk-or-not-this-pro-bernie-post-about-nevada/754945/32 "2016-05-18T11:06:50Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > :dubious: Hillary isn’t paying for her delegates’ hotel rooms either. At this level, it’s basically a bunch of middle-class volunteers spending their own money. > > And if you don’t think a certain minority of “Clinton moderates” can be nasty to those they see as filthy hippie leftists, you aren’t paying attention. Clinton moderates can be nasty, but you’re not going to find them going to rallies holding up signs with obscenities and vulgarities directed at candidates and then baiting supporters into violent confrontations by physically impeding their path into an auditorium and disrupting everything once they get inside. I think we’ve pretty well established that most of Hillary’s supporters are part of the well-behaved, more mature establishment, which is the problem in the eyes of Sanders supporters, who think we should be passionate about breaking up big banks because the economy and the Universe itself are rigged. Usually, if Clinton moderates are nasty, it’s probably because they’ve been provoked and they’re tired of hoping and wishing that Sanders and his cracker jack supporters would just go away. It’s obvious that they’re not just going away. They’re a movement, don’t we see? :rolleyes: They’re trying to save the world, and we’re in their way. With that sort of jiihadist thinking, it’s understandable of a few Clinton supporters get to the point where they tire of being civil. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunk-or-not-this-pro-bernie-post-about-nevada/754945/33 "2016-05-18T14:15:33Z")
Word. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunk-or-not-this-pro-bernie-post-about-nevada/754945/34 "2016-05-18T14:45:12Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Clinton moderates can be nasty, but you’re not going to find them going to rallies holding up signs with obscenities and vulgarities directed at candidates and then baiting supporters into violent confrontations by physically impeding their path into an auditorium and disrupting everything once they get inside. I think we’ve pretty well established that most of Hillary’s supporters are part of the well-behaved, more mature establishment, which is the problem in the eyes of Sanders supporters, who think we should be passionate about breaking up big banks because the economy and the Universe itself are rigged. Also, importantly, Clinton supporters in 2008 were _nothing_ like Bernie supporters in 2016. There were a few “never Obama”-screeds, but by and large civil behavior and, in the end, plenty of voting for Obama after all. Hopefully these Bernie Bros will vote for Clinton in the end, but I’ll never forget their horrid behavior. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunk-or-not-this-pro-bernie-post-about-nevada/754945/35 "2016-05-18T14:49:00Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > It looks to me like Bernie’s supporters massively fucked it up this time. I see no coordinated wrong-doing on the part of the NV Dems; they’re guilty at worst of ineffective organization. I think having a voice vote that is anywhere near close and then not doing a full count, when tempers are already flaring, is a horrible idea. Even if your side won the voice vote fair and square, all it does is breed distrust and suspicion. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunk-or-not-this-pro-bernie-post-about-nevada/754945/36 "2016-05-18T15:01:32Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > Also, importantly, Clinton supporters in 2008 were _nothing_ like Bernie supporters in 2016. There were a few “never Obama”-screeds, but by and large civil behavior and, in the end, plenty of voting for Obama after all. Hopefully these Bernie Bros will vote for Clinton in the end, but I’ll never forget their horrid behavior. Well, it remains to be seen whether a faction of Sanders supporters will continue formally campaigning against Clinton after the convention, some voting Republican, as Clinton PUMAs did against Obama. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunk-or-not-this-pro-bernie-post-about-nevada/754945/37 "2016-05-18T17:12:45Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Clinton moderates can be nasty, but you’re not going to find them going to rallies holding up signs with obscenities and vulgarities directed at candidates and then baiting supporters into violent confrontations by physically impeding their path into an auditorium and disrupting everything once they get inside. I think we’ve pretty well established that most of Hillary’s supporters are part of the well-behaved, more mature establishment, which is the problem in the eyes of Sanders supporters, who think we should be passionate about breaking up big banks because the economy and the Universe itself are rigged. > > Usually, if Clinton moderates are nasty, it’s probably because they’ve been provoked and they’re tired of hoping and wishing that Sanders and his cracker jack supporters would just go away. It’s obvious that they’re not just going away. They’re a movement, don’t we see? :rolleyes: They’re trying to save the world, and we’re in their way. With that sort of jiihadist thinking, it’s understandable of a few Clinton supporters get to the point where they tire of being civil. Alas, some of those Cilnton “moderates” may have resorted to sarcasm. How shocking! ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunk-or-not-this-pro-bernie-post-about-nevada/754945/38 "2016-05-18T18:06:23Z")
Can someone explain the yeas-nays video that Sanders supporters are all up in arms about? I believe the Sanders supporters were wrong and I believe that Sanders’ tepid response was ineffectual and only stoked the flames of his misguided supporters (and I say this as a Bernie voter). But what procedural issue was taking place during that video and why were the Sanders voters wrong to be enraged about it? I searched online and I couldn’t match up that procedural vote with what they were actually voting on and why the Sanders voters were angry about it. Citations welcome. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunk-or-not-this-pro-bernie-post-about-nevada/754945/39 "2016-05-18T19:11:26Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Well, it remains to be seen whether a faction of Sanders supporters will continue formally campaigning against Clinton after the convention, some voting Republican, as Clinton PUMAs did against Obama. In the end, the real effect of such “PUMAs” was negligible at best. Clinton supporters then overwhelmingly voted for Obama, or did not vote. They did not vote for McCain. Palin helped ensure that outcome, to be fair. Emerging “Bernie or BUST” types, which much seem louder, more obstreperous, and more numerous than in 2008, could be seriously damaging, comparable to Nader voters in 2000. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunk-or-not-this-pro-bernie-post-about-nevada/754945/40 "2016-05-18T20:00:48Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > In the end, the real effect of such “PUMAs” was negligible at best. Clinton supporters then overwhelmingly voted for Obama, or did not vote. They did not vote for McCain. [Some did.](http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/11/04/puma-founder-obama-is-democrats-bush/) They also ran a PAC which attacked the Democratic nominee during the general campaign, so Sanders’ supporters have some ways to go before matching Clinton’s for intraparty spite. > [@Knorf](#): > > Emerging “Bernie or BUST” types, which much seem louder, more obstreperous, and more numerous than in 2008, could be seriously damaging, comparable to Nader voters in 2000. I doubt that is really possible. Sanders will not be on the November ballot, if not as the Democratic nominee. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunk-or-not-this-pro-bernie-post-about-nevada/754945.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunk-or-not-this-pro-bernie-post-about-nevada/754945.md?page=3)