Debunk this 9/11 conspiracy theory

[md2000]

@CurtC

This is quite the zombie thread. About the flash as the 767 hit WTC2 - I thought it was the standard explanation that one large aluminum object hitting a steel object at very high speed would produce lots of immediate heat that would be high enough to give off light. Am I mistaken? I’m surprised by this talk of landing lights and oxygen bottles.

Well, add in a large amount of pure oxygen and you just up the ante for flash potential. And there is a decent-sized oxygen bottle right underneath the pilots.

The standard procedure when there’s a fire in the electrical equipment room is to turn off all the electrical equipment, since odds are a failed electronic unit is the cause of the smoke alert. So the first thing the Malaysian Air pilots would do is switch all the radios off. Then turn around and set heading head to the nearest airport. then lose consciousness so they just kept going at that heading. My personal opinion is that they flew a straight course at constant altitude and none of the military - Thai, Malaysian, or Indonesian - want to admit they weren’t tracking things properly.

[rsat3acr]

@DrFidelius

Miami Dolphins

well that makes sense :smack:

[Just_Asking_Questions]

I wonder if the OP Still Believes?

[Goalie8401]

The fact that the government is not out to get everyone really boggles the minds of some people. At the end of the day you’re not going to change their minds. They believe what they want to believe is true; there is no evidence in the world that is going to change the mind of these people. The internet is too big of a forum with too many like-minded individuals to change their minds. Just nod, say “ok then” and move along.

• The building were brought down by hijacked planes.

• Kennedy was killed by a lone gunman. (you only have to go to the grassy knoll to see how stupid the theories are)

• We did go to the moon.

HOWEVER - The reptile people are REAL!

[watchwolf49]

@md2000

Well, add in a large amount of pure oxygen and you just up the ante for flash potential. And there is a decent-sized oxygen bottle right underneath the pilots.

The standard procedure when there’s a fire in the electrical equipment room is to turn off all the electrical equipment, since odds are a failed electronic unit is the cause of the smoke alert. So the first thing the Malaysian Air pilots would do is switch all the radios off. Then turn around and set heading head to the nearest airport. then lose consciousness so they just kept going at that heading. My personal opinion is that they flew a straight course at constant altitude and none of the military - Thai, Malaysian, or Indonesian - want to admit they weren’t tracking things properly.

Thank you for all this inside information … we appreciate the risk you’re taking divulging this to the SDMB … answers a lot of questions about how the Malaysian Government managed to pull this off …

[Lok]

@Goalie8401

The fact that the government is not out to get everyone really boggles the minds of some people. At the end of the day you’re not going to change their minds. They believe what they want to believe is true; there is no evidence in the world that is going to change the mind of these people. The internet is too big of a forum with too many like-minded individuals to change their minds. Just nod, say “ok then” and move along.

• The building were brought down by hijacked planes.

• Kennedy was killed by a lone gunman. (you only have to go to the grassy knoll to see how stupid the theories are)

• We did go to the moon.

HOWEVER - The reptile people are REAL!

Of course they’re real. Humans aren’t competent enough to accomplish the other stuff you listed without the reptile people helping us.

[furryman]

@Mr.Miskatonic

Sinister Air Force General: Say there, Airman Bob.
Airman Bob: Sir?
SAFG: Listen son, you’ve been a good and loyal asset.
AB: Sir?
SAFG: You’ve been reccomended to me from your immediate NCO all the way up the chain.
AB: Thank you sir! I apprecia…
SAFG: So we have a job for you.
AB: Proud to help sir!
SAFG: We want you to kill a few thousand of your countrymen.
AB: SAY WHAT!?
SAFB: And destroy a couple of American icons in the process.
AB: Sir, with all due respect, are you on drugs?!
SAFB: And bring this fine nation to a state of undeniable fear.
AB: OK, definately drugs. I’m guessing crank.
SAFB: But’s it for your country son. Don’t you love your country?
AB: Sir, I love my country sir!
SAFB: So you’ll help up out by killing thousands of them!
AB: What FOR sir?
SAFB: Oh, you know. Stuff. Help George Bush’s approval rating, maybe get to invade Afgantisan. We might get a pipeline or something. Not really sure what, but we’ve got to destroy the Twin Towers to do it. No other way.
AB: Destroy the…Sir, this is the stupidest idea ever.
SAFB: Nonsesnse! No one will ever suspect the president of killing his own people in a fake terrorist act.
AB: Fake terroris…Sir what are you planning to do?
SAFB: Simple! Piece of cake! We simply take a couple of commercial airplanes, seize control of them, murder or hide the passengers, replace them with military aircraft with special rockets on the front. Then we fly those planes into the World Trade Center! Towers go boom! People die. And we of the conspriacy get…something. Genius!
AB: Doens’t sound very…
SAFB: OF course, we need to hope nobody in NYC has a video camera.
AB: But…
SAFB: And we’re hoping Osama Bin Laden will take credit for it.
AB: Errr…
SAFB: No, here’s where you come in, son. You’re going to fly one of the planes into the tower!
AB: Sir, I’m going to have to kill you now.

I personally don’t believe in any conspiracy theories, but did you ever see the movie Wag the Dog?

[Johnny_L.A]

Shortly after turning down the assignment, Airman Bob was tragically killed in a training accident.

[Wallaby]

“We have no record of any Airman Bob serving in any official Capacity in the Airforce”.

[Rick_Kitchen]

@furryman

I personally don’t believe in any conspiracy theories, but did you ever see the movie Wag the Dog?

The film Wag the Dog is based on the novel, originally called American Hero, which was retitled Wag The Dog: The Novel after the film came out. In the book, the President is ***specifically ***George H. W. Bush, and the war is Desert Storm.

[bob_2]

According to a poll in 2013:

*6% of voters believe Osama bin Laden is still alive

21% of voters say a UFO crashed in Roswell, NM in 1947 and the US government covered it up.

28% of voters believe secretive power elite with a globalist agenda is conspiring to eventually rule the world through an authoritarian world government, or New World Order.

20% of voters believe there is a link between childhood vaccines and autism,

7% of voters think the moon landing was faked

29% of voters believe aliens exist

15% of voters say the government or the media adds mind-controlling technology to TV broadcast signals

[Rick_Kitchen]

21% of voters say a UFO crashed in Roswell, NM in 1947 and the US government covered it up.

[…]

29% of voters believe aliens exist

I believe these things especially the last one. Why would anybody believe there is nobody else out in the entire universe?

[Johnny_L.A]

@Rick_Kitchen

I believe these things especially the last one. Why would anybody believe there is nobody else out in the entire universe?

I think when people are asked if they believe in aliens, they assume the question is whether aliens visit Earth. I think there are intelligent aliens somewhere in the ‘entire universe’. But I don’t think they have visited Earth. The universe is too big.

Of course, there’s always the possibility that we’re the first intelligent life in the universe.

[Lok]

@Johnny_L.A

I think when people are asked if they believe in aliens, they assume the question is whether aliens visit Earth. I think there are intelligent aliens somewhere in the ‘entire universe’. But I don’t think they have visited Earth. The universe is too big.

Of course, there’s always the possibility that we’re the first intelligent life in the universe.

Considering the current political theater going on, I’m going to need a cite for the intelligent part.

[Just_Asking_Questions]

@furryman

I personally don’t believe in any conspiracy theories, but did you ever see the movie Wag the Dog?

Forget horror movies. Wag The Dog is the scariest movie I have ever seen. It’s totally possible. Second scariest is Bob Roberts.

Never forget Old Shoe!

[Jay_Jay]

The REAL bit to get is WHY
should any aircraft be able to penetrate a skyscraper wall
“Like a hot knife through butter”
… and Don’t say the plane was going SOOO fast!
.
Gee Mr. Wizard, its electric …

[running_coach]

@Jay_Jay

The REAL bit to get is WHY
should any aircraft be able to penetrate a skyscraper wall
“Like a hot knife through butter”
… and Don’t say the plane was going SOOO fast!
.
Gee Mr. Wizard, its electric …

Explain why something the mass of an airliner going 500 mph can’t penetrate a wall.

[Jay_Jay]

@engineer_comp_geek

While Boeing may recommend slower speeds, the top speed of a 767 is 0.86 times the speed of sound at that altitude. Any faster than that and you risk structural failure.

The speed of sound at sea level is about 761 mph (it varies a bit depending on atmospheric conditions). This puts the top speed of a 767 at around 654 mph.

So a Boeing 767 can easily fly at sea level at 530 mph with absolutely no risk of structural failure.

The 767’s engines are also more than capable of pushing it to those speeds at that altitude.

Your idea of projected illusions is just silly. How on earth would you “project” an airplane?

You’re going to find that spouting this kind of nonsense on this board isn’t going to be very well received. We prefer to deal with factual information in this forum, and there’s nothing factual in your post.

Considering the fact that the power required to move a plane through air
increases exponentially as the speed increases linearly, therefore
where is the power coming from to actually fly this bird at 540 mph near sea level?

[Jay_Jay]

@running_coach

Explain why something the mass of an airliner going 500 mph can’t penetrate a wall.

Do you know what HOLLOW POINT AMMO is?
the nose of an airliner is hollow, therefore why did it not perform much closer
to that of hollow point ammo rather than the performance of a hardened steel punch.?
do you understand the ramifications of having to displace >3 tons of mass by a body traveling at 540 mph?

[running_coach]

@Jay_Jay

Do you know what HOLLOW POINT AMMO is?
the nose of an airliner is hollow, therefore why did it not perform much closer
to that of hollow point ammo rather than the performance of a hardened steel punch.?
do you understand the ramifications of having to displace >3 tons of mass by a body traveling at 540 mph?

Hollowpoints work by the hydraulic pressure of the tissue it’s moving through.

As for sea level speed, here.

The speed is secondary - what determines the physical limits of the Boeing 767 is Mach number and dynamic pressure.

510 kts at 400 m in standard atmospheric conditions equals Mach 0.775. This is well within the limits of the Boeing 767. But at 400 m it produces a dynamic pressure of 40,567 N/m², and that is too much. The maximum dive speed v_D of the 767 is 420 kts.

This only means that flying at 510 kts is illegal, but it is still possible. If the airplane dove down to those 400m from enough altitude, it would entirely be capable to reach this speed, but would slow down once it stops diving.

There are several effects which can cause a catastrophic failure when flying too fast:

When the aircraft flies into a gust, the resulting load factor can overstress the structure.
When the pilot commands large control inputs, he will also overstress the structure.
Flutter might also cause structural damage.

The maximum Mach number of the 767 is 0.91 (0.05 above the maximum cruise Mach number, which is 0.86), and this corresponds to 523 kts in 11,000 m. Thankfully, certification requirements demand a margin of 20% between the maximum speeds and flutter onset speeds, so flutter might be close, but is still tens of miles per hour away when diving to 510 kts. Remember, to experience flutter you need also to excite the motion first. Here is a good discussion of this topic.

In short, flying a Boeing 767 in 400 m at 510 kts is not recommended, but is entirely possible and most likely even safe when done in calm air and by a calm pilot. It only won’t last long, because the engines will not produce enough thrust to maintain that speed. Flying this dive requires guts, but no special skills.