# Debunking the Protocols
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunking-the-protocols/728912
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion
**Created:** [August 26, 2015, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunking-the-protocols/728912 "2015-08-26T03:05:21Z")
**Posts on this page:** 16
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@ryu238](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ryu238)
#### Post date: [August 26, 2015, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunking-the-protocols/728912/1 "2015-08-26T03:05:21Z")
Jose Antonio Ferrer Benimeli’s “The Judeo-Masonic conspiracy-communist” seems to debunk the Protocols in of themselves by doing a paragraph by paragraph comparison. Does any body have it?
> **[The Protocols of the Elders of Zion - Anti-Masonry and Anti-Semitism](http://www.freemasons-freemasonry.com/zeldis10.html)**
>
> The Protocols of the Elders of Zion - Anti-Masonry and Anti-Semitism | MASONIC PAPERS by RW Bro. LEON ZELDIS Honorary Assistant Grand Master, Grand Lodge of Israel. Pietre-Stones Review of Freemasonry
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### Author:  [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)
#### Post date: [August 26, 2015, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunking-the-protocols/728912/2 "2015-08-26T03:06:33Z")
Oh, good lord. You’re not fooling anyone, you know.
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### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [August 26, 2015, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunking-the-protocols/728912/3 "2015-08-26T03:07:02Z")
What are the paragraphs being compared _to_, I ask out of curiosity.
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### Author:  [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)
#### Post date: [August 26, 2015, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunking-the-protocols/728912/4 "2015-08-26T03:19:46Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#):
>
> What are the paragraphs being compared _to_, I ask out of curiosity.
The linked article compares passages from [_The Dialogue In Hell Between Machiavelli and Montesquieu_](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dialogue_in_Hell_Between_Machiavelli_and_Montesquieu) and [_The Protocols of the Elders of Zion_](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protocols_of_the_Elders_of_Zion), so as to demonstrate that portions of the latter were plagiarized from the former.
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### Author:  [@ryu238](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ryu238)
#### Post date: [August 26, 2015, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunking-the-protocols/728912/5 "2015-08-26T04:38:12Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#):
>
> What are the paragraphs being compared _to_, I ask out of curiosity.
What human action said. Sorry, I have a bad habit of not explaining enough.
I brought up this subject because there really isn’t a full list online comparing the two works. Sure you find several paragraphs but not the whole thing.
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### Author:  [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)
#### Post date: [August 26, 2015, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunking-the-protocols/728912/6 "2015-08-26T05:12:56Z")
> [@ryu238](#):
>
> What human action said. Sorry, I have a bad habit of not explaining enough.
> I brought up this subject because there really isn’t a full list online comparing the two works. Sure you find several paragraphs but not the whole thing.
Is there a debate, here? It is nice to have a serious and nearly scholarly debunking of the Protocols, but you are unlikely to find anyone on this site claiming that they were real.
I suspect that this will do better in IMHO.
[/Moderating]
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### Author:  [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)
#### Post date: [August 26, 2015, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunking-the-protocols/728912/7 "2015-08-26T05:14:28Z")
> [@silenus](#):
>
> Oh, good lord. You’re not fooling anyone, you know.
You might want to have someone look at that knee. It seems to be jerking rather violently.
The posted links are a pretty thorough debunking of the _Protocols_, not an invitation to promote them.
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### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [August 26, 2015, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunking-the-protocols/728912/8 "2015-08-26T11:01:16Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#):
>
> The linked article compares passages from [_The Dialogue In Hell Between Machiavelli and Montesquieu_](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dialogue_in_Hell_Between_Machiavelli_and_Montesquieu) and [_The Protocols of the Elders of Zion_](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protocols_of_the_Elders_of_Zion), so as to demonstrate that portions of the latter were plagiarized from the former.
Outrageous! Anti-semitism is bad enough, but _unoriginality?!_ Harrumph, I say, harrumph!
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### Author:  [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)
#### Post date: [August 26, 2015, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunking-the-protocols/728912/9 "2015-08-26T16:09:00Z")
> [@ryu238](#):
>
> What human action said. Sorry, I have a bad habit of not explaining enough.
> I brought up this subject because there really isn’t a full list online comparing the two works. Sure you find several paragraphs but not the whole thing.
[Here’s _Dialogue In Hell_](http://www.notbored.org/dialogue-in-hell.html) in English.
[Here’s _The Protocols_](https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Protocols_of_the_Learned_Elders_of_Zion) in English.
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### Author:  [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)
#### Post date: [August 26, 2015, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunking-the-protocols/728912/10 "2015-08-26T16:27:09Z")
I was all set to jump in on this, but now I realize we aren’t talking about HTTP protocols.
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [August 26, 2015, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunking-the-protocols/728912/11 "2015-08-26T17:14:05Z")
> [@ryu238](#):
>
> Jose Antonio Ferrer Benimeli’s “The Judeo-Masonic conspiracy-communist” seems to debunk the Protocols in of themselves by doing a paragraph by paragraph comparison. Does any body have it?
> [The Protocols of the Elders of Zion - Anti-Masonry and Anti-Semitism](http://www.freemasons-freemasonry.com/zeldis10.html)
IS there something that makes you think they need debunking on this message board, or that those that are rabid enough to believe in them would listen to anything you have to say?
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### Author:  [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)
#### Post date: [August 26, 2015, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunking-the-protocols/728912/12 "2015-08-26T17:20:47Z")
> [@silenus](#):
>
> Oh, good lord. You’re not fooling anyone, you know.
I feel happy…
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### Author:  [@ryu238](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ryu238)
#### Post date: [August 27, 2015, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunking-the-protocols/728912/13 "2015-08-27T03:23:43Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#):
>
> [Here’s _Dialogue In Hell_](http://www.notbored.org/dialogue-in-hell.html) in English.
>
> [Here’s _The Protocols_](https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Protocols_of_the_Learned_Elders_of_Zion) in English.
…I was hoping somebody could find the comparison not do it myself. I am lazy dammit.
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### Author:  [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)
#### Post date: [August 27, 2015, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunking-the-protocols/728912/14 "2015-08-27T16:43:10Z")
> [@ryu238](#):
>
> …I was hoping somebody could find the comparison not do it myself. I am lazy dammit.
Well, at least you’re honest about it.
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### Author:  [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)
#### Post date: [August 27, 2015, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunking-the-protocols/728912/15 "2015-08-27T18:37:47Z")
Serious question: Has anyone here ever actually seen the Protocols?
I’ve HEARD about them for decades, but I’ve never met anyone who ever tried to show them to me, or to tell me, “You’ve gotta read this!”
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### Author:  [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)
#### Post date: [August 27, 2015, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debunking-the-protocols/728912/16 "2015-08-27T20:49:16Z")
Are the links, above, valid? I mean, do they point to the “real” Protocols and Dialogue, in a fairly accurate English translation? Or are they hoaxes of some sort?
How can we know?
(Also, I rely heavily on my right not to inspect ugly stuff. I’ve never watched the Zapruder film of JFK’s assassination, because I know it’s icky.)