# Dec. 21, 2012 is the beginning of the Age of Aquarius **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 28, 2012, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dec-21-2012-is-the-beginning-of-the-age-of-aquarius/632923 "2012-08-28T14:21:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dec-21-2012-is-the-beginning-of-the-age-of-aquarius/632923/41 "2012-08-28T18:50:54Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > The OP must be a Taurus . . . Bull. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dec-21-2012-is-the-beginning-of-the-age-of-aquarius/632923/42 "2012-08-28T19:18:56Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Once again-the larger the body of water, the more influence the moon has on it. Because of the distance involved, there are millions of things around you that have more gravitational influence on you than the moon. Respectfull request for a cite (the math) on how a 60 gram pencil has a bigger gravitational affect upon me from a distance of two feet than the moon (according to wiki, it masses 7.3477 × 10^22 kg at an average distance of 383,000 km) does. (It seems counter-intuitive to me.) ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dec-21-2012-is-the-beginning-of-the-age-of-aquarius/632923/43 "2012-08-28T19:30:33Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > Respectfull request for a cite (the math) on how a 60 gram pencil has a bigger gravitational affect upon me from a distance of two feet than the moon (according to wiki, it masses 7.3477 × 10^22 kg at an average distance of 383,000 km) does. > > (It seems counter-intuitive to me.) I don’t have the math, but here’s another cite from Scientific American - [Lunacy and the Full Moon | Scientific American](http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=lunacy-and-the-full-moon) > [@](#): > > As the late astronomer George Abell of the University of California, Los Angeles, noted, a mosquito sitting on our arm exerts a more powerful gravitational pull on us than the moon does. More cites (without the requested math) - [lunar effects (full moon) The Skeptic's Dictionary - Skepdic.com](http://www.skepdic.com/fullmoon.html) > [@](#): > > The lunar force is actually a very weak tidal force. A mother holding her child “will exert 12 million times as much tidal force on her child as the moon” (Kelly et al., 1996: 25). Astronomer George O. Abell claims that a mosquito would exert more gravitational pull on your arm than the moon would (Abell 1979). ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dec-21-2012-is-the-beginning-of-the-age-of-aquarius/632923/44 "2012-08-28T19:34:30Z")
Here’s some of the mass of Abell’s claim - [Tidal force, or The Moon and the Mosquito revisited | 360](http://threesixty360.wordpress.com/2009/03/30/tidal-force-or-the-moon-and-the-mosquito-revisited/) ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dec-21-2012-is-the-beginning-of-the-age-of-aquarius/632923/45 "2012-08-28T19:40:43Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > I don’t have the math, but here’s another cite from Scientific American - [Lunacy and the Full Moon | Scientific American](http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=lunacy-and-the-full-moon) > > More cites (without the requested math) - [lunar effects (full moon) The Skeptic's Dictionary - Skepdic.com](http://www.skepdic.com/fullmoon.html) Thanks. Please understand: I wasn’t trying to say Czarcasm was making something up completely on his own. I just can’t get around my “gut” sometimes. [/joke]I just moved my pencil. See how the ocean just sloshed a little to the left?[/joke] ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dec-21-2012-is-the-beginning-of-the-age-of-aquarius/632923/46 "2012-08-28T19:46:09Z")
I can’t do the math for this either, but I do know that gravity is goverened by the inverse square law: the force is dividend by the distance squared. The moon is very large compared to the pencil, but the pencil is very close and the moon is very freaking far. The gravitational force the moon is exerting on you is divided by 384,400 km times 384,400 km, or 147.763 billion. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dec-21-2012-is-the-beginning-of-the-age-of-aquarius/632923/47 "2012-08-28T19:50:02Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I can’t do the math for this either, but I do know that gravity is goverened by the inverse square law: the force is dividend by the distance squared. The moon is very large compared to the pencil, but the pencil is very close and the moon is very freaking far. The gravitational force the moon is exerting on you is divided by 384,400 km times 384,400 km, or 147.763 billion. I should be feeling the same force (from the moon) as are all the water molecules in the ocean. The ocean moves by many feet a couple times a day. Are we (my precious bodily [del]essense[/del]fluids, and the ocean) moving the same amount in proportion to our own size/mass? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dec-21-2012-is-the-beginning-of-the-age-of-aquarius/632923/48 "2012-08-28T19:54:39Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > I should be feeling the same force (from the moon) as are all the water molecules in the ocean. The ocean moves by many feet a couple times a day. > > Are we (my precious bodily [del]essense[/del]fluids, and the ocean) moving the same amount in proportion to our own size/mass? Have you read any of the links provided yet? ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dec-21-2012-is-the-beginning-of-the-age-of-aquarius/632923/49 "2012-08-28T19:59:06Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Have you read any of the links provided yet? Truthfully, I skimmed. I see much discussion on human behavior and folklore (including a discussion on menstration). What did I miss? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dec-21-2012-is-the-beginning-of-the-age-of-aquarius/632923/50 "2012-08-28T20:13:55Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > I should be feeling the same force (from the moon) as are all the water molecules in the ocean. The ocean moves by many feet a couple times a day. > > Are we (my precious bodily [del]essense[/del]fluids, and the ocean) moving the same amount in proportion to our own size/mass? The moon does exert a gravitational force on you and everybody else. But that force is very weak and I think you are overlooking the fact that the molecules in your body are all influencing each other gravitationally much more than the moon is influencing any of them. > [@Scientific American](#): > > [Th]e moon’s gravitational force affects only open bodies of water, such as oceans and lakes, but not contained sources of water, such as the human brain. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dec-21-2012-is-the-beginning-of-the-age-of-aquarius/632923/51 "2012-08-28T20:22:25Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > The moon does exert a gravitational force on you and everybody else. But that force is very weak and I think you are overlooking the fact that the molecules in your body are all influencing each other gravitationally much more than the moon is influencing any of them. Ok, but that raises these two questions: 1. The oceans own molecules should be affecting each other more than the moon does… why does my body do something the ocean cannot? 2. Water itself has a binding force (the source of “surface tension”). Why isn’t that much stronger than the moons effect? Or do tides happen _because_ this surface tension does not allow the ocean water to pull away from itself, but instead, move as if a single mass? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dec-21-2012-is-the-beginning-of-the-age-of-aquarius/632923/52 "2012-08-28T20:24:34Z")
Can you imagine trying to chart a horoscope based on people walking by, cars which pass you on the freeway, pets that jump on your lap etc.? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dec-21-2012-is-the-beginning-of-the-age-of-aquarius/632923/53 "2012-08-28T20:28:33Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > 1. The oceans own molecules should be affecting each other more than the moon does… why does my body do something the ocean cannot? I believe the answer is contained in the words “open water.” Your body isn’t open, and when there is essentially nothing but water around the situation may be different. > [@](#): > > 1. Water itself has a binding force (the source of “surface tension”). Why isn’t that much stronger than the moons effect? We’re getting beyond my expertise in physics here (I have basically none), but I don’t think surface tension has anything to do with this and I don’t think it’s particularly strong either. The explanation here seems to be this: the moon pulls most strongly on the side of the Earth that is closest to it, and while the effect is not observable when you’re dealing with land masses, the effect of its gravity can be seen on water because it isn’t solid. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dec-21-2012-is-the-beginning-of-the-age-of-aquarius/632923/54 "2012-08-28T20:38:55Z")
I accept as an absolute that the moon causes tides. But the water in my Aquafina is not leaning towards my pencil. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dec-21-2012-is-the-beginning-of-the-age-of-aquarius/632923/55 "2012-08-28T20:47:42Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > I accept as an absolute that the moon causes tides. But the water in my Aquafina is not leaning towards my pencil. 🙂 _sigh_ It sure as hell isn’t leaning towards the moon, either. The gravitational influence of your pencil on your bottle is minuscule. The gravitational influence of the moon on that bottle is even smaller. Got it? ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dec-21-2012-is-the-beginning-of-the-age-of-aquarius/632923/56 "2012-08-28T20:52:43Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > _sigh_ > It sure as hell isn’t leaning towards the moon, either. The gravitational influence of your pencil on your bottle is minuscule. The gravitational influence of the moon on that bottle is even smaller. Got it? Which is why I asked for the math. By how much? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dec-21-2012-is-the-beginning-of-the-age-of-aquarius/632923/57 "2012-08-28T21:00:07Z")
[The _previously given_ link](http://threesixty360.wordpress.com/2009/03/30/tidal-force-or-the-moon-and-the-mosquito-revisited/) does the math for a mosquito. Pencil bigger than mosquito by unknown factor. Gravitational influence of pencil \> gravitational influence of mosquito \> gravitational influence of moon. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dec-21-2012-is-the-beginning-of-the-age-of-aquarius/632923/58 "2012-08-28T21:07:42Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > [The _previously given_ link](http://threesixty360.wordpress.com/2009/03/30/tidal-force-or-the-moon-and-the-mosquito-revisited/) does the math for a mosquito. Pencil bigger than mosquito by unknown factor. Gravitational influence of pencil \> gravitational influence of mosquito \> gravitational influence of moon. Thanks! I see that paragraph now. (I missed it the first skim-through.) He got the mosquitos weight wrong, though, according to the last paragraph, which is what I saw on the first skim through, so I assumed the articles purpose was to say “the guy who claimed that the mosquito had a greater influence on you than the moon got it wrong”.. Thanks again for taking the time to explicitly pointing out the math. That works better than just _sigh_ing at me. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![JackieLikesVariety](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackielikesvariety/32/296_2.png) [@JackieLikesVariety](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JackieLikesVariety)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dec-21-2012-is-the-beginning-of-the-age-of-aquarius/632923/59 "2012-08-28T21:10:25Z")
this thread is MUCH less groovy than it could be :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dec-21-2012-is-the-beginning-of-the-age-of-aquarius/632923/60 "2012-08-28T21:17:28Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I can’t do the math for this either, but I do know that gravity is goverened by the inverse square law: the force is dividend by the distance squared. The moon is very large compared to the pencil, but the pencil is very close and the moon is very freaking far. The gravitational force the moon is exerting on you is divided by 384,400 km times 384,400 km, or 147.763 billion. Even better: tidal force varies as the inverse cube of the distance! Tidal force is essentially the difference in gravitational attraction over the width of the body. The moon raises tides on earth because the moon pulls more strongly on the side of the earth nearest the moon, and less strongly on the side of the earth farthest from the moon. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dec-21-2012-is-the-beginning-of-the-age-of-aquarius/632923.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dec-21-2012-is-the-beginning-of-the-age-of-aquarius/632923.md?page=4)