# Decade in the red. Trump taxes. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 7, 2019, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decade-in-the-red-trump-taxes/833640 "2019-05-07T23:33:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2019, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decade-in-the-red-trump-taxes/833640/61 "2019-05-08T15:59:18Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > What is “helpful” about linking to a silly article about someone’s taxes in 1985? > > No one, not even the IRS cares, about tax returns from 33 years ago. > > Should we take another look at Harry Truman’s tax returns from 1945? Anybody else hearing “Sabre Dance” in your head when you read this? ---
**Author:** ![gytalf2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ac91a4/32.png) [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2019, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decade-in-the-red-trump-taxes/833640/62 "2019-05-08T16:30:07Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Frankly, I am sick of people like you telling me what is _really_ important. Like, who made you arbiter of the political discourse? I don’t remember taking a vote. > > This may not bother you none, and that’s fine. But somewhere out there, there is a fence-sitter out there who reflexively plays the “both sides” card. Someone who remembers when Republicans were beating poor welfare recipients over the head for not paying any taxes just a couple of years ago. Somewho who may have even agreed with them that it is a shame that people can benefit from the system more than they put in. Those people may not care about Trump the Russian Puppet or Trump the Racist Misogynist. But maybe they WILL be bothered by Trump the Hypocritical Leech. If Dems can wake these people up then they may have a decent chance of winning. If panty-twisting is what it takes to make that happen, I am all for it. Excellent point! ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2019, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decade-in-the-red-trump-taxes/833640/63 "2019-05-08T17:15:43Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > No, talking about a decade of incredible losses, 1985 to 1994. Over 1 billion dollars in loss during the time he was supposedly extremely successful. Your habitually lying president is now your financially incompetent habitually lying president. He lied to you…and you eat it up as if it were caviar. Like most Trump supporters, **D’Anconia** has never tasted caviar. Some day he hopes to lose a billion dollars and cheat on his taxes, like his hero, and maybe even get some caviar…once his ship comes in! (the ship is never going to come in) ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2019, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decade-in-the-red-trump-taxes/833640/64 "2019-05-08T17:52:44Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > But not everyone is stupid enough to agree with a lying buffoon. The problem being, we don’t currently have enough people who are SMART enough NOT to believe his bull shit. Those are the people we need to reach. Why do you insist on preaching to the choir? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2019, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decade-in-the-red-trump-taxes/833640/65 "2019-05-08T17:56:21Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > The problem being, we don’t currently have enough people who are SMART enough NOT to believe his bull shit. Those are the people we need to reach. O.k., pretend I’m one of those people-reach out and convince me. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2019, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decade-in-the-red-trump-taxes/833640/66 "2019-05-08T17:58:08Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > No it doesn’t. It shows how great of a businessman he was, avoiding taxes. He even tweeted today about how great he did back then. Let me summarize his tweet for you: “Yes, I benefited from all kinds of tax loopholes and tax avoidance. So what, everyone does it. It’s a sport. And anyway, it’s all fake.” I didn’t steal that cookie, and anyway it didn’t taste very good. Your claim of how great a businessman he is? That’s starting to look more and more pathetic every day. Tell us again how he greatly bankrupted casinos. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2019, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decade-in-the-red-trump-taxes/833640/67 "2019-05-08T17:59:12Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > 60 million people are. I will fix this for you: “60 million people were” ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2019, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decade-in-the-red-trump-taxes/833640/68 "2019-05-08T18:43:53Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > O.k., pretend I’m one of those people-reach out and convince me. Yes, I’m afraid this is an adult conversation. I don’t think playing “pretend” is going to work here. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2019, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decade-in-the-red-trump-taxes/833640/69 "2019-05-08T18:51:05Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > Yes, I’m afraid this is an adult conversation. I don’t think playing “pretend” is going to work here. So you’ve got this idea on how to reach Trump followers…and no idea at all on how to implement it? ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2019, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decade-in-the-red-trump-taxes/833640/70 "2019-05-08T18:59:09Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > No it doesn’t. It shows how great of a businessman he was, avoiding taxes. He even tweeted today about how great he did back then. I hate to break it to ya, but Trump was never a businessman. He was a clown with a credit card. After he lost all of Daddy’s money and the banks caught on, we was just a clown. He’s an actor, not a businessman. But no problem, because there’s always been a load of Americans who think his clown show is real. They turned on _The Apprentice_ and and bought into it hook, line and sinker. Now you hear his bullshit as president, and you fall for that, too. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2019, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decade-in-the-red-trump-taxes/833640/71 "2019-05-08T19:29:25Z")
There’s a context here that I think is missing in this discussion, which is that Trump’s extreme losses led him to tap into Russian money in the 1990’s, when the Soviet Union collapsed and kleptocrats were seeking to profit off of the liquidation of assets. Once you combine this story of Trump’s losses with the [quote] ([https://themoscowproject.org/collusion/eric-trump-funding-need-russia/](https://themoscowproject.org/collusion/eric-trump-funding-need-russia/)) from his son, Eric, that “we have all of the money we need out of Russia”, and then combine that with the fact that [Deutsche Bank](https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-deutsche-bank-mueller-2017-12) became Trump’s go-to lender, and then realize that Deutsche Bank was assisting with the [laundering](https://money.cnn.com/2017/01/31/investing/deutsche-bank-us-fine-russia-money-laundering/index.html) of Russian money, you begin to understand how Trump originally became such a Russian stooge, why he was glad to accept their election help, and why he remains indebted to them to this day. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2019, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decade-in-the-red-trump-taxes/833640/72 "2019-05-08T20:45:47Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > I hate to break it to ya, but Trump was never a businessman. He was a clown with a credit card. After he lost all of Daddy’s money and the banks caught on, we was just a clown. He’s an actor, not a businessman. What? He owns businesses and he’s a man. Businessman. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2019, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decade-in-the-red-trump-taxes/833640/73 "2019-05-08T21:02:55Z")
He totally gave 63 million the business, man. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2019, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decade-in-the-red-trump-taxes/833640/74 "2019-05-08T21:10:23Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > No it doesn’t. It shows how great of a businessman he was, avoiding taxes. He even tweeted today about how great he did back then. His didn’t “avoid” taxes. He “evaded” taxes. His sister [retired](https://www.vox.com/2019/4/11/18306167/maryanne-trump-barry-tax-returns-trump) rather than face an investigation of her taxes and she was caught up in some of the same stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2019, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decade-in-the-red-trump-taxes/833640/75 "2019-05-08T21:48:22Z")
Stuff like this is useful before an election, because it casts doubt on whether the person will perform well if they become president. But Trump IS President, and he has a track record. Some like it, some don’t. But at this point, even if you showed that he was the worst businessman who ever lived it won’t matter, because people are now going to judge him on what he did as President, not what he did before. And as I recall, this was the argument Bill and Hillary used to fight against the investigations that were launched into Bill’s pre-White House days. After all, isn’t it time to ‘Move On’? The thing is, Bill was right- all those Republican investigations worked against them, and Clinton was re-elected. This stuff just cements the idea in Republican’s heads that the media is in the tank for the Democrats, and that the Democrats are willing to do anything they can to hurt Trump, a sitting president. That will NOT play well with independents or even Democrats on the fence. The base loves it, but the ‘base’ makes up less than half the people you need to get elected and they aren’t going anywhere anyway. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2019, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decade-in-the-red-trump-taxes/833640/76 "2019-05-08T22:01:29Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Stuff like this is useful before an election, because it casts doubt on whether the person will perform well if they become president. > > But Trump IS President, and he has a track record. Some like it, some don’t. But at this point, even if you showed that he was the worst businessman who ever lived it won’t matter, because people are now going to judge him on what he did as President, not what he did before. > > And as I recall, this was the argument Bill and Hillary used to fight against the investigations that were launched into Bill’s pre-White House days. After all, isn’t it time to ‘Move On’? The thing is, Bill was right- all those Republican investigations worked against them, and Clinton was re-elected. > > This stuff just cements the idea in Republican’s heads that the media is in the tank for the Democrats, and that the Democrats are willing to do anything they can to hurt Trump, a sitting president. That will NOT play well with independents or even Democrats on the fence. The base loves it, but the ‘base’ makes up less than half the people you need to get elected and they aren’t going anywhere anyway. And this cements the idea in Democrats’ heads that Republicans can’t be trusted to perceive reality in any meaningful way. Trump’s trade wars are fucking up certain sectors of the economy. His “negotiations” with our trade partners and our allies are fucking up a lot of our long-term prospects for global hegemony. His management style, sewing chaos, rewarding only loyalty, and leaving dozens or hundreds of key positions vacant, is fucking up the future effectiveness of our own executive branch. His inability to negotiate with congress, including those in his own party, is fucking up any chance we’ve had of making progress on pretty much anything during his term. If you look at everything going on in Trump’s circle and think, “Well, it’s unconventional, but I’ve been wanting our country run like a business for a long time, and maybe this is just what it looks like when a successful businessman/outsider shakes things up,” then it ABSOLUTELY matters now whether or not he was actually a successful businessman. Because the alternative is this – Trump was never a successful businessman and the stuff that looks like chaos in the White House is a sure sign that he’s fucking up the country just like he fucked up his own affairs. And if he’s fucking up the country, shouldn’t we make him stop doing that ASAP? Especially if we have a good reason to, like that he’s a criminal? ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2019, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decade-in-the-red-trump-taxes/833640/77 "2019-05-08T22:17:22Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > …Trump’s trade wars are fucking up certain sectors of the economy. His “negotiations” with our trade partners and our allies are fucking up a lot of our long-term prospects for global hegemony. His management style, sewing chaos, rewarding only loyalty, and leaving dozens or hundreds of key positions vacant, is fucking up the future effectiveness of our own executive branch. His inability to negotiate with congress, including those in his own party, is fucking up any chance we’ve had of making progress on pretty much anything during his term. > > …Trump was never a successful businessman and the stuff that looks like chaos in the White House is a sure sign that he’s fucking up the country just like he fucked up his own affairs. And if he’s fucking up the country, shouldn’t we make him stop doing that ASAP? Especially if we have a good reason to, like that he’s a criminal? Here’s what Trump’s fans are never going to be able to spin: Trump is an incompetent. He’s inept. He’s a bungler. He’s pathetic. Every excuse they come up with fails. Today the rationalization is ‘_oh, he’s smart because he doesn’t pay taxes_’—really? Couldn’t he have ‘not paid taxes’ if he’d actually MADE money instead of losing it??? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2019, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decade-in-the-red-trump-taxes/833640/78 "2019-05-08T22:19:47Z")
Trump is like Schrodinger’s businessman. He is both successful and unsuccessful, and BOTH of these states of being make him an excellent choice for president in some people’s minds. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2019, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decade-in-the-red-trump-taxes/833640/79 "2019-05-08T22:23:21Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Trump is like Schrodinger’s businessman. He is both successful and unsuccessful, and BOTH of these states of being make him an excellent choice for president in some people’s minds. I wonder if we’ll be seeing a related uptick in diagnosed mental disorders in the next few years. All this double-think determination to ignore reality has to be doing a number on the stability of those cognitive gymnasts. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2019, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decade-in-the-red-trump-taxes/833640/80 "2019-05-08T22:41:06Z")
The **Fox and Friends** spin this morning was “He lost a billion dollars? Golly, he’s done so MUCH in his life!” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decade-in-the-red-trump-taxes/833640.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decade-in-the-red-trump-taxes/833640.md?page=5)