# Decapitation by Shovel? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 29, 2012, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decapitation-by-shovel/623467 "2012-05-29T18:55:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![gytalf2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ac91a4/32.png) [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decapitation-by-shovel/623467/1 "2012-05-29T18:55:01Z")
I have seen this type of scene in horror movies – a person is decapitated with a shovel! Pretty gruesome, but it got me to thinking… How hard would it be to do this? Let’s say that two average-size guys have fought, a clear winner emerges, and the loser is unconscious or barely conscious on the ground. The victor has a shovel in his hands. Can he achieve decapitation by just pressing down with the blade? Long, arduous process, or relatively quick? Any info would be appreciated. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decapitation-by-shovel/623467/2 "2012-05-29T19:04:49Z")
Ew. What a nasty death. A good sharp-edged metal shovel, thrust down hard enough, would take just one or two tries, I would think. Not that I have any intention of ever finding out for sure! ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decapitation-by-shovel/623467/3 "2012-05-29T19:16:14Z")
In _All Quiet on the Western Front_, a rookie soldier arrives at the front with fancy and expensive knife. Katczinsky, the old veteran, advises the kid to get rid of the knife and use and entrenching tool instead. Kat’s description of how to use it is quite graphic. Erich Maria Remarque was an infantry veteran, so I presume his description was based on first-hand knowledge. ---
**Author:** ![eightysix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecccb3/32.png) [@eightysix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eightysix)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decapitation-by-shovel/623467/4 "2012-05-30T02:05:30Z")
Vaiables are: Sharpness and size of the blade Thickness of the neck Resistance/compliance of the surface under the neck Motivation/force applied by the decapitator Luck as to where the blade slides through the anatomy Ideal: sharp wide blade, thin neck, compliant under surface (allowing the blade to sink all the way in), motivated decapitator, blade slides between vertebrae. If it all lines up - easy peaty. One or more off - could be a nightmare! ---
**Author:** ![AaronX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7bcc69/32.png) [@AaronX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AaronX)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decapitation-by-shovel/623467/5 "2012-05-30T02:20:22Z")
I would expect mass of the shovel to be a factor as well. Actually, wouldn’t a firm under surface be better? If you’re cutting someone on a giant marshmallow, they’d just sink in. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decapitation-by-shovel/623467/6 "2012-05-30T02:28:37Z")
FWIW, the Spetsnatz (Russian special forces) specifically train in the use of their entrenching tool as a close combat weapon. There’s also something of a tradition among them to compete in the use of those tiny shovels as thrown weapons. I don’t know if they can take one’s head clean off with them, but they can certainly fuck one up good and proper. But if we’re talking farm shovel with a long handle and relatively heavy straight blade ? Yeah, I don’t see any reason you couldn’t decapitate a prone opponent cleanly in a couple well-motivated whacks at the most. If you do manage to hit the neck. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decapitation-by-shovel/623467/7 "2012-05-30T02:33:54Z")
> [@AaronX](#): > > I would expect mass of the shovel to be a factor as well. Actually, wouldn’t a firm under surface be better? If you’re cutting someone on a giant marshmallow, they’d just sink in. Personally, I always check for marshmallows before attempting this maneuver. 70% of the time that it takes more then one blow it’s due to marshmallows under the persons neck. I never understand why people don’t check for this first. It only takes a few seconds. It’s as easy as putting on your seat belt, you do that don’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decapitation-by-shovel/623467/8 "2012-05-30T02:48:15Z")
On Feb. 2, 1980, a prison riot in the New Mexico Penitentiary in Santa Fe resulted in a prisoner being decapitated with a shovel. [http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=861&dat=20000131&id=R10dAAAAIBAJ&sjid=dVoEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3055,6502579](http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=861&dat=20000131&id=R10dAAAAIBAJ&sjid=dVoEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3055,6502579) ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decapitation-by-shovel/623467/9 "2012-05-30T12:49:33Z")
On the other hand, all those Royal Executioners didn’t use shovels, or even swords or regular battle-axes. They were big guys with specialized giant, heavy, just-sharpened axes. And they still occasionally took a couple chops to get through, which was generally considered quite embarrassing for all involved. Since the experts were particularly motivated for a one-shot deal, but still didn’t make it every time with specialized equipment, I wouldn’t bet much on the chances of getting through with one blow of a shovel. (Not that a fatal blow would be hard, but full decapitation? Not that easy) ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decapitation-by-shovel/623467/10 "2012-05-30T13:00:46Z")
Your surface is key. Remember the the little rhyme used by the Order of Seekers for Truth and Penitence to mock the chopping blocks typically provided by your average village alcalde: “Wide as a stool, dense as a fool, and dished as a rule.” ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decapitation-by-shovel/623467/11 "2012-05-30T13:53:20Z")
I want _Mythbusters_ to do this. The only question is who on the team should be decapitated. I vote Tory. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decapitation-by-shovel/623467/12 "2012-05-30T14:35:23Z")
They’d probably just use another dead pig. Don’t they ever get tired of those? Or does the crew get an off-camera barbecue party at the wrap? ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decapitation-by-shovel/623467/13 "2012-05-30T16:19:59Z")
come on OP, you actually just want to know if this is going to work on individual members of the actual zombie apocalypse that is now starting: [http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fgawker.com%2F5914059%2Fgrab-your-boomstick-the-zombie-apocalypse-may-actually-be-upon-us&h=-AQHgOl9tAQFkYVv8FPM7f3lSraeGNqk-Gc0sNn09xg-\_qw](http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fgawker.com%2F5914059%2Fgrab-your-boomstick-the-zombie-apocalypse-may-actually-be-upon-us&h=-AQHgOl9tAQFkYVv8FPM7f3lSraeGNqk-Gc0sNn09xg-_qw) Answer, should be good, in 95 percent of zombie flicks decapitation stops them, but getting them down and not resisting so you can apply the shovel and both feet will be the hard part! ---
**Author:** ![cher3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@cher3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cher3)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decapitation-by-shovel/623467/14 "2012-05-30T16:34:00Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > They’d probably just use another dead pig. Don’t they ever get tired of those? Or does the crew get an off-camera barbecue party at the wrap? Dead pigs are the industry standard. The Horrible Things That Can Potentially Happen to You industry, that is. I did some research on battlefield wound management. It’s a hard life for a pig. ---
**Author:** ![Sasquatch\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8491ac/32.png) [@Sasquatch\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sasquatch_1)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decapitation-by-shovel/623467/15 "2012-05-30T20:02:51Z")
A military entrenching tool is certainly intended to have a secondary use as a weapon, and it’s a pretty decent one at the level of hand to hand combat. Better than a knife if you ask me, but I really doubt you could decapitate someone in a clean blow or two. More like half a dozen hacks, they are not really sharp or heavy enough. Most bigger shovels are not really shaped for getting in hard slicing blows, with curved cutting ends and handles not designed for swinging, most of the Hollywoodish decapitations with shovels shown are very unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decapitation-by-shovel/623467/16 "2012-05-30T23:23:42Z")
> [@Sasquatch](#): > > More like half a dozen hacks, they are not really sharp or heavy enough. Wait, aren’t we talking about placing the blade of a full size shovel with a long handle carefully on the throat and then jumping on the lips of the shovel with both feet? Thats how I understand the OP, not hacking at it like a meat cleaver with a hand shovel. ---
**Author:** ![gazpacho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6f9a4e/32.png) [@gazpacho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gazpacho)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decapitation-by-shovel/623467/17 "2012-05-30T23:36:13Z")
> [@cher3](#): > > Dead pigs are the industry standard. The Horrible Things That Can Potentially Happen to You industry, that is. > > I did some research on battlefield wound management. It’s a hard life for a pig. Seems like it is a hard death for a lot of pigs as well. ---
**Author:** ![Sasquatch\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8491ac/32.png) [@Sasquatch\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sasquatch_1)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decapitation-by-shovel/623467/18 "2012-05-31T01:28:39Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Wait, aren’t we talking about placing the blade of a full size shovel with a long handle carefully on the throat and then jumping on the lips of the shovel with both feet? Thats how I understand the OP, not hacking at it like a meat cleaver with a hand shovel. Well, that comment was specifically about the utility of an E-tool for the job, not the OP. I suppose it’s possible with a really sharp shovel and a heavy guy jumping on it to do the deed in one cut, but I’ve never actually seen that scene. Usually an arm swing or arm-force downstrike on a body on the ground, I’ve never watched a movie that showed someone placing a shovel on a neck then jumping on it like trying to implant a spade in soil. I’d still say it was unlikely to work unless you slipped the edge between vertebrae, you need speed to cut through bone, a slow push is usually stopped. Growing up on a farm and raising most of our own animals, I’ve decapitated pretty much every common domesticated critter in the US, from chickens to cattle, plus plenty of wild, hunted animals. Not for the sake of experiment though, so I don’t have video evidence, ha. ---
**Author:** ![AaronX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7bcc69/32.png) [@AaronX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AaronX)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decapitation-by-shovel/623467/19 "2012-05-31T03:00:27Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Wait, aren’t we talking about placing the blade of a full size shovel with a long handle carefully on the throat and then jumping on the lips of the shovel with both feet? Thats how I understand the OP, not hacking at it like a meat cleaver with a hand shovel. Oh? I thought it’s holding it vertically and driving it vertically down (no swinging). What’s the shape of a shovel head? Is it spade shaped or rectangular? I thought it’s rectangular. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2012, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decapitation-by-shovel/623467/20 "2012-05-31T05:36:38Z")
> [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#): > > I want _Mythbusters_ to do this. > > The only question is who on the team should be decapitated. I vote Tory. The wry narrator is my choice. He’s the main reason I hardly ever watch the show. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decapitation-by-shovel/623467.md?page=2)