# Deceased G.O.P. Strategist’s Hard Drives Reveal New Details on the Census Citizenship Question **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 30, 2019, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deceased-g-o-p-strategist-s-hard-drives-reveal-new-details-on-the-census-citizenship-question/834787 "2019-05-30T17:58:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deceased-g-o-p-strategist-s-hard-drives-reveal-new-details-on-the-census-citizenship-question/834787/61 "2019-07-09T16:51:53Z")
I think they should impeach him for being a lying bastard. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deceased-g-o-p-strategist-s-hard-drives-reveal-new-details-on-the-census-citizenship-question/834787/62 "2019-07-09T22:36:02Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > But he must still be charged with something, so I’ll rephrase. What could Barr be charged with? A decision to defy a Supreme Court decision would be a crystal-clear violation of the oath of office Barr took: to defend the Constitution of the United States of America. That Barr did, in fact, take that oath of office: > **[Attorney General William Barr Swears Oath Of Office After Senate Confirmation](https://www.npr.org/2019/02/14/694751343/senate-confirms-william-barr-as-next-attorney-general)** > > The prominent Republican lawyer, confirmed by the Senate Thursday, will lead the Justice Department for a second time. He first served as attorney general under George H.W. Bush in the early '90s. That violation of that oath is, in fact, a violation of the U.S. Code (and thus constitutes “breaking the law”): > **[5 U.S. Code § 3331 - Oath of office](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/5/3331)** ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deceased-g-o-p-strategist-s-hard-drives-reveal-new-details-on-the-census-citizenship-question/834787/63 "2019-07-09T22:46:13Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > A decision to defy a Supreme Court decision would be a crystal-clear violation of the oath of office Barr took: to defend the Constitution of the United States of America. But AIUI, any order to include the question would come from Trump, not Barr. If you want to impeach Trump for it, I’m all in. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deceased-g-o-p-strategist-s-hard-drives-reveal-new-details-on-the-census-citizenship-question/834787/64 "2019-07-09T22:55:31Z")
This guy, “we’ve been considering all the options”, is directing the fucking show: That’s “we’ve been”, not “The so-called president has”. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deceased-g-o-p-strategist-s-hard-drives-reveal-new-details-on-the-census-citizenship-question/834787/65 "2019-07-09T22:59:51Z")
Today the AP ran a photo that is [my new favorite William Barr picture](https://storage.googleapis.com/afs-prod/media/e3a1d19092394b30a53d10a3973f0686/800.jpeg). ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2019, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deceased-g-o-p-strategist-s-hard-drives-reveal-new-details-on-the-census-citizenship-question/834787/66 "2019-07-10T00:38:17Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > But AIUI, any order to include the question would come from Trump, not Barr. If you want to impeach Trump for it, I’m all in. The House could probably turn contempt of Congress into an impeachment if they wanted, but why would they want to waste their time on Barr? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2019, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deceased-g-o-p-strategist-s-hard-drives-reveal-new-details-on-the-census-citizenship-question/834787/67 "2019-07-10T02:12:36Z")
Just so we’re all clear here, what we’re stumbling into is what we call constitutional departmentalism, a theory in which each branch ignores generally establish boundaries of each branch’s domain and power and instead finds ways to bend the Constitution for its own purposes and functions. One could almost spin that into an academic debate, except for the fact that when only one branch maintains control of multiple national police forces and detention centers, maintains a department of “defense” with its own militia and detention centers of their own, and an intelligence apparatus, it’s hard to see how other branches remain…“co-equal”. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2019, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deceased-g-o-p-strategist-s-hard-drives-reveal-new-details-on-the-census-citizenship-question/834787/68 "2019-07-10T02:17:48Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Just so we’re all clear here, what we’re stumbling into is what we call constitutional departmentalism, a theory in which each branch ignores generally establish boundaries of each branch’s domain and power and instead finds ways to bend the Constitution for its own purposes and functions. How are the legislative and judicial branches ignoring their established boundaries? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2019, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deceased-g-o-p-strategist-s-hard-drives-reveal-new-details-on-the-census-citizenship-question/834787/69 "2019-07-10T03:22:12Z")
[This cracked me up](https://apnews.com/637bd7eeb9f84b1cb1ed4d2d9571a062): > [@](#): > > The Justice Department can’t replace nine lawyers so late in the dispute over whether to add a citizenship question to the 2020 census without explaining why they are doing so, a judge said Tuesday. > > U.S. District Judge Jesse M. Furman, who earlier this year ruled against adding the citizenship question, put the brakes on the government’s plans a day after he was given a three-paragraph notification by the Justice Department along with a prediction that the replacement of lawyers won’t “cause any disruption in this matter.” > > “Defendants provide no reasons, let alone ‘satisfactory reasons,’ for the substitution of counsel,” Furman wrote, noting that the most immediate deadline for government lawyers to submit written arguments in the case is only three days away. > > The judge said local rules for federal courts in New York City require that any attorney requesting to leave a case provide satisfactory reasons for withdrawing. The judge must then decide what impact a lawyer’s withdrawal will have on the timing of court proceedings. > > He called the Justice Department’s request “patently deficient,” except for two lawyers who have left the department or the civil division which is handling the case. > [@](#): > > Furman said the urgency to resolve legal claims and the need for efficient judicial proceedings was an important consideration in rejecting a replacement of lawyers. > > He said the Justice Department had insisted that the speedy resolution of lawsuits against adding the question was “a matter of great private and public importance.” > > “If anything, that urgency — and the need for efficient judicial proceedings — has only grown since that time,” Furman said. > > Furman said the government could re-submit its request to replace attorneys only with a sworn statement by each lawyer explaining satisfactory reasons to withdraw so late. He said he’ll require new attorneys to promise personnel changes will not slow the case. “We need a decision RIGHT NOW! Time is of the essence! Unless it’s a decision we don’t like; then we’ll need more time to come up with a new plan!” :rolleyes: Lying to a federal judge about time constraints can’t be a good idea, can it? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2019, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deceased-g-o-p-strategist-s-hard-drives-reveal-new-details-on-the-census-citizenship-question/834787/70 "2019-07-10T03:25:56Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > How are the legislative and judicial branches ignoring their established boundaries? They’re not; it’s the executive branch that is, and it only takes one branch with unequal power and that doesn’t play fair to invite a crisis. And not just a Constitutional crisis, but a political crisis. If Trump can get away with a) ignoring Court rulings, and b) ignoring Court rulings that allow him to corrupt a decennial census upon which our republican form of government is based, he ends the constitution and the American state as we know it. I’m more than just a little alarmed because it’s clear that there are no headlines about this and no analysis dedicated to this in the mainstream press, or even here for that matter. Most people in this country don’t understand how democracy works, and how it can fail…despite living in a…“democracy” ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2019, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deceased-g-o-p-strategist-s-hard-drives-reveal-new-details-on-the-census-citizenship-question/834787/71 "2019-07-10T03:31:56Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > [This cracked me up](https://apnews.com/637bd7eeb9f84b1cb1ed4d2d9571a062):“We need a decision RIGHT NOW! Time is of the essence! Unless it’s a decision we don’t like; then we’ll need more time to come up with a new plan!” > > :rolleyes: > > Lying to a federal judge about time constraints can’t be a good idea, can it? It doesn’t matter, Bo. What I suspect “Attorney General” Barr and the entire administration is going to sell is a novel interpretation of what the Constitution and what American constitutional legal theory that undergirds it"really" means. You can already see it in Barr’s statements > [@](#): > > Barr said he didn’t have details on why the attorneys didn’t want to continue, but “ **as far as I know, they don’t think we are legally wrong**.” > > Barr said he has been in regular contact with Trump over the issue of the citizenship question. “ **I agree with him that the Supreme Court decision was wrong** ,” the attorney general said. He said he believes there is “ **an opportunity potentially to cure the lack of clarity that was the problem and we might as well take a shot at doing that**.” Anyone who believes that I am chicken little and that I am being alarmist is just whistling in the dark. My friends, you’re having a nightmare. But unfortunately, this nightmare…is real. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2019, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deceased-g-o-p-strategist-s-hard-drives-reveal-new-details-on-the-census-citizenship-question/834787/72 "2019-07-10T12:07:59Z")
Let me give you a scenario post-2020: Let’s say the citizenship question is added to the census in open defiance of the Court’s ruling - not an extended legal contest that otherwise temporarily delays the census publication and adheres to the rules, but printing it with a census question in open defiance of the decision. Democrats would, I hope, contest that somehow. But even if the House Democrats’ spine crumbled, we would presumably have legal challenges and lawsuits filed to impose injunctions on the census. At minimum, what we would have is a pretty fouled-up census, a flawed census. And a flawed census would potentially - I think likely - cause political and legal controversy over the legitimacy of the census and of apportionment not just for 2021 but for the years that follow. Democrats would have the more compelling legal and political arguments, of course. Perhaps they regain control of the government in 2021 and order a new census citing the fact that the old census was invalid since it defied the Court. Republicans, however, would simply cry foul and that this new census is invalid and that the 2020 census is the real one, which would pave the way for challenges to election after election after election. They would double-down on claims that Democrats are trying to steal their democracy from them. Fox News and the right wing Twitter and Youtube-o-sphere would be running up the nation’s electric bills with constant propaganda chatter and how something needs to be done to save their republic. I wouldn’t be surprised to see an armed paramilitary wing of the Republican party begin campaigns of terror. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deceased-g-o-p-strategist-s-hard-drives-reveal-new-details-on-the-census-citizenship-question/834787/73 "2019-07-11T20:03:39Z")
[Looks like they’re finally dropping it](https://www.politico.com/story/2019/07/11/trump-expected-to-take-executive-action-to-add-citizenship-question-to-census-1405893). ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deceased-g-o-p-strategist-s-hard-drives-reveal-new-details-on-the-census-citizenship-question/834787/74 "2019-07-11T20:04:43Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > [Looks like they’re finally dropping it](https://www.politico.com/story/2019/07/11/trump-expected-to-take-executive-action-to-add-citizenship-question-to-census-1405893). I saw this movie last week. Trump said it was fake news. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deceased-g-o-p-strategist-s-hard-drives-reveal-new-details-on-the-census-citizenship-question/834787.md?page=3)