# December and other conservatives..your take on this page. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 6, 2003, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-and-other-conservatives-your-take-on-this-page/159402 "2003-03-06T02:37:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-and-other-conservatives-your-take-on-this-page/159402/21 "2003-03-06T03:36:54Z")
**Hermann Cheruscan** … You sound jealous. Just what does that have to do with anything in this thread? ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-and-other-conservatives-your-take-on-this-page/159402/22 "2003-03-06T03:39:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Airman Doors, USAF \* > \*\*I would have too if it hadn’t been such a blatant conservative bash. I just wanted to poke a little with the stick to see what the REAL motivation for this thread is, because the OP is such a blatant tr… well, you know the rest of it. \*\* Is that an accusation? Tell me how this thread is a troll. Is it not a debateable topic? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-and-other-conservatives-your-take-on-this-page/159402/23 "2003-03-06T03:40:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Airman Doors, USAF \* > \*\*…I’ll be sure to remind you of this thread in 2004 when the Democrats take the White House, **Reeder**. \*\* From your lips to the ears of Allah. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-and-other-conservatives-your-take-on-this-page/159402/24 "2003-03-06T03:46:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Reeder \* > \*\*Is that an accusation? Tell me how this thread is a troll. Is it not a debateable topic? \*\* What’s the debate? This is even less debatable than a **december** thread. You made a statement that virtually everyone would see is obvious, and for what? So you could see conservatives squirm? So you could get all excited about how you finally proved that Bush isn’t an honest person? I got news for you…we already knew that. Tell us something new, exciting, or at least interesting, and then we can debate. Until then, all I see is a disillusioned liberal spoiling for a fight to assuage his anger. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-and-other-conservatives-your-take-on-this-page/159402/25 "2003-03-06T03:48:43Z")
**AD** , The OP was a blatant _George W. Bush_ bash, which is not quite the same thing as a blatant, blanket _conservative_ (or Republican) bash, which would have called more for comparing ideologies (or parties) vice individuals. Very important distinction, IMHO. No major disagreements with you on the t-word. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Airman Doors, USAF \* > \*\*I would have too if it hadn’t been such a blatant conservative bash. I just wanted to poke a little with the stick to see what the REAL motivation for this thread is, because the OP is such a blatant tr… well, you know the rest of it. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-and-other-conservatives-your-take-on-this-page/159402/26 "2003-03-06T03:49:09Z")
> [@](#): > > I got news for you…we already knew that. This isn’t always apparent. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-and-other-conservatives-your-take-on-this-page/159402/27 "2003-03-06T03:50:47Z")
**Airman Doors, USAF** …Do you ever get tired of the Bushies extolling the virtues of Dubya? Don’t you think the truth shines a bit of light on their worshipping? ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-and-other-conservatives-your-take-on-this-page/159402/28 "2003-03-06T03:52:19Z")
Call it what you will. But I was seriously looking for the Bushies to defend him. But I see it’s not going to happen. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-and-other-conservatives-your-take-on-this-page/159402/29 "2003-03-06T03:56:29Z")
> [@](#): > > No, what’s hypocritical is that historically, Presidents (and politicians in general) do not come through on their promises. True, but this was the President who was going to “restore honor and dignity to the White House”. > [@](#): > > But, did Bush wave his finger at the cameras and deny saying those things? Just like when Clinton denied having sex with Monica when he in fact had her suck his penis and lick his asshole in the Oval office. Can we name this phenomenon? It’s at least as ridiculous as Godwin’s Law, far more common these days, and just as predictable. Poster #1: I present this criticism of the current administration, and of Republicans in general. Poster #2: I remind you, sir, that Bill Clinton got a blow job from an intern, and was less than forthcoming about it. Poster #1: That may be true, but it does not alter my assertion. Here is more support for my position. Poster #2: Blow job! Blow job blow job blow job! I suggest Monica’s Law. Dr. J ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-and-other-conservatives-your-take-on-this-page/159402/30 "2003-03-06T03:57:50Z")
Do I? Hell yes I do. I’m sick to shit of hearing about the great Bush and his wonderful policies. I used to be a true believer. I am no longer. At this point, all I’d like is for 2004 to roll around so I can vote him out. BUT… Every time I think I’m starting to be at least sympathetic to liberal causes, someone posts some BS OP and begs to be hammered on it, and I oblige, since it shows the true colors of the liberals as well. What did you hope to accomplish with this OP? Something tells me it’s not ending up the way you had hoped. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-and-other-conservatives-your-take-on-this-page/159402/31 "2003-03-06T04:00:53Z")
One post shows the true colours of the liberals? really? are we all the same? ---
**Author:** ![Hermann\_Cheruscan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b782af/32.png) [@Hermann\_Cheruscan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermann_Cheruscan)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-and-other-conservatives-your-take-on-this-page/159402/32 "2003-03-06T04:14:47Z")
> [@](#): > > At this point, all I’d like is for 2004 to roll around so I can vote him out. I would love for a Bush to lose and be replaced by a conservative. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-and-other-conservatives-your-take-on-this-page/159402/33 "2003-03-06T04:16:41Z")
I would love a conservative in my back garden too, to replace all those bushes. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-and-other-conservatives-your-take-on-this-page/159402/34 "2003-03-06T04:29:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lobsang \* > \*\*One post shows the true colours of the liberals? really? are we all the same? \*\* Dude, you all sing the same line, the same chorus. “The war is wrong” “Bush makes the rich richer” “The Republicans are trying to stack the courts” “The deficit is growing irresponsibly” “Shrub is a nincompoop” Whether I agree with some of that or not is irrelevant. What I do see, though, is you guys shouting at the top of your lungs and not even giving a second’s thought to the fact that approximately half the people in the country disagree with you and maybe their perspective has some merit as well. Frankly, it gets old really quickly. It sounds like sour grapes since you’re not in charge anymore. Which, of course, it is. Not that the same thing won’t happen when you’re in charge, of course. Personally, I’m sick of the whole thing. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-and-other-conservatives-your-take-on-this-page/159402/35 "2003-03-06T04:33:12Z")
> [@](#): > > What I do see, though, is you guys shouting at the top of your lungs and not even giving a second’s thought to the fact that approximately half the people in the country disagree with you and maybe their perspective has some merit as well. The exact same thing can be said about conservatives. IMO, in fact it is probably more a conservative behaviour than a liberal one. I am not in your country by the way. I don’t really care (much) about it’s national policies, just it’s foreign ones. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-and-other-conservatives-your-take-on-this-page/159402/36 "2003-03-06T04:34:39Z")
> [@](#): > > since you’re not in charge anymore. And another thing. In my country - the liberals _are_ in charge! (albeit not very liberally) ---
**Author:** ![zigaretten](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/91b2a8/32.png) [@zigaretten](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zigaretten)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-and-other-conservatives-your-take-on-this-page/159402/37 "2003-03-06T04:37:46Z")
Let’s just look at the very first claim: > [@](#): > > Bush’s first budget proposed cutting grants to children’s hospitals like the one he visited by 15% ($34 million). [Another view](http://www.premierinc.com/frames/index.jsp?pagelocation=/all/advocacy/issues/107th/medicare/payment/bush_fy02_budget.htm) of Bush’s first budget: > [@](#): > > Historically, presidential budgets are **‘mixed bags,’** and President Bush’s $1.96 trillion spending plan for FY '02, released today, appears no different………… > > …….The Bush budget would **boost** discretionary funding for **HHS** (_that’s Health and Human Sevices_) $2.7 billion, or 5.1 percent, including a **13.5 percent increase for the National Institutes of Health** , and **13.6 percent increase for the Agency for Healthcare Research Quality** ………… > > ……….For the **first time in nearly two decades** , there are **no scheduled cuts** in **Medicare payments to hospitals** ……… > > ……… As disclosed in his February budget blueprint, the president would **cut funding for graduate medical education (GME) in children’s hospitals** from $235 million to $200 million, and **scale** back the maternal and child health services block grant from $714 million to $709 million………… > > ……… federal support for the State Children’s Health Insurance Program (SCHIP) would **decline** from $4.03 billion currently to $3.36 billion…… > > ………Bush’s budget plan includes an **expansion** of the medical savings account (MSA) program, and about **$53 billion in tax breaks** over 10 years to help the uninsured buy healthcare coverage………… I’d call that a ”mixed bag” alright, some losses here and some gains there. But hardly the abandonment of children’s healthcare suggested by the OP’s site. But wait, there’s more. Bush’s first budget covers the year 2002. So Children’s Hospitals loose $34 million dollars in 2002 according to a budget submitted in **April of 2001**. But here we learn: > [@](#): > > …….In **September (_2001_)**, the Health Resources and Services Administration awarded 57 children’s teaching hospital $238 million for their fiscal year 2001 graduate medical education programs. Packard Children’s Hospital received $4.2 million of that. The **2002 appropriation is an increase of $50 million** over the previous year and brings funding to the equivalent level for the first time……… Frankly, I don’t think the rest of the site is worth bothering with. Give me something a little more **informative** and a little less **partisan**. ---
**Author:** ![DreadCthulhu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DreadCthulhu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DreadCthulhu)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-and-other-conservatives-your-take-on-this-page/159402/38 "2003-03-06T05:03:41Z")
Well, I just read through that link, and while I think it wasn’t a good move for Bush to break those promises, it is naive to think The President will do everything he says, I do happen to agree with most of the budget cuts and such in the ‘Reality’ column, so I can’t get that mad at Bush, because he is doing (mostly) what I want him to do. And give him a bravo for cutting the ethanol subsidy, that has been one of my pet peeves for awhile now. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-and-other-conservatives-your-take-on-this-page/159402/39 "2003-03-06T06:02:23Z")
Yes, Bush is ridiculously dishonest about what he promises, and what he actually does. This is not new to the Presidency, though his administration is remarkably clumsy about it. But… I like some of what he does. Did I hear something about killing the ethanol subsidy? Right on! ---
**Author:** ![zigaretten](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/91b2a8/32.png) [@zigaretten](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zigaretten)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2003, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-and-other-conservatives-your-take-on-this-page/159402/40 "2003-03-06T06:53:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Avalonian \* > So, in one move, Bush is cutting education money _and_ dropping support for military families. Oh yeah, “unprecedented” indeed. You may want to check out this [article](http://www.edweek.org/ew/newstory.cfm?slug=24impact.h22): > [@](#): > > BUSH’S IMPACT-AID PLAN HAS FAMILIAR RING > > President Reagan did it. So did the first President Bush. President Clinton did it, too. Repeatedly. > > So it should have come as no surprise when the current President Bush unveiled his recommended federal spending plan for fiscal 2004 early this month that he included a sharp cut in aid to school districts adversely affected by the heavy presence of tax-exempt federal facilities and American Indian lands. **Likewise no surprise: the anguished cries from the advocates for what is known as impact aid.** > > His immediate predecessors all engaged in a similar dance over the past 20 years with Congress. And in most of those years, the program’s bipartisan appeal—at least 250 congressional districts have one or more school systems getting impact aid, most of them because of military installations—has trumped Republican and Democratic presidents’ bids to save the money or spend it some other way. > > **"What would happen consistently is the Congress would turn back the proposal………So [presidents] were able to get their cake and eat it too. .….It’s always been a gimmick**, in my opinion………" > > **If that’s true, the sitting president resisted gimmickry for his first couple of trips around the budget track. President Bush, in fact, was the first chief executive to break the billion-dollar barrier for impact aid when he asked for $1.13 billion for fiscal 2002.** Looks to me like Impact-Aid has done pretty well by President Bush. And some might even call that part about resisting the sort of “gimmickry” engaged in by Reagan, Bush (I) and Clinton to be “unprecedented” indeed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-and-other-conservatives-your-take-on-this-page/159402.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-and-other-conservatives-your-take-on-this-page/159402.md?page=3)