# December banning **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 29, 2003, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415 "2003-08-29T13:09:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415/221 "2003-08-29T22:44:06Z")
**Jodi** , I’m not sure there are unambigous examples of people defending his dishonesty. The biggest problem I ever had with the defenders of **december** was their constant use of the strawman that “you hate him because he’s a conservative” as opposed to accepting the possibility that people might be pissed at him because he was a liar. I once recall [going back and forth with **Scylla** on this point](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=168001&perpage=50&pagenumber=4). Almost every anti- **december** thread ended up hijacked into a discussion of that very strawman. Extremely frustrating to those who were opposed to his behavior on non-ideological grounds. Heck, I agree with him on a great many actual ISSUES. Homosexual rights, seperation of church and state, (some) reform of the legal system, he even seemed fairly moderately to deeply concerned about environmental issues. All in all I think we had far more in common ideologically than we were divided on. Yet I was one of the unabashed few who would openly say I felt he deserved to be banned. It was his dishonesty, not his ideology, which moved me to take that position. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415/222 "2003-08-29T22:44:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > \*\*I will stand at the wall, and I wll not be silent as the jackbooted thugs come from me. > > \*\* I wouldn’t be silent either! I can imagine that giving birth to jackbooted thugs would be painful enough to cause even the most stoic to scream. Particularly if the person giving birth to said thugs is male! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415/223 "2003-08-29T22:49:18Z")
**Rickjay** , colour me confused. > [@](#): > > I haven’t seen any of those guys(core group of conservatives) defend december’s dishonesty, not one single time…I absolutely HAVE seen “liberal” posters defended in exactly the same manner as december has been Are you suggesting that “liberals” have defended **december**? ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415/224 "2003-08-29T22:51:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Anthracite \* > \*\*I am a bit confused when people characterize the Staff here as being liberal. I would say more libertarian, or even conservative, than that. In any event, I have never seen any evidence that any of the Staff have acted impartially due to political leanings, and I’ve read a lot of threads… \*\* You’re forgetting the rule of Conservative Oppression: If they don’t follow you unquestioningly, they are Liberal Attack Dogs. Hence, the media is biased and so is the management here. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415/225 "2003-08-29T22:52:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by C K Dexter Haven \* > \*\*\<\< It seems that if you disagree or argue with the Staff, they cut you less slack than if you parrot their views \>\> > > Actually, it tends to go the opposite way. If a Mod finds misbehavior on the part of someone of an opposite political stance, they tend to be MORE lenient, not less. > > So far as I am aware, no one has ever been banned solely because of their political views. Behaviors, yes; perspectives, no. > > Politely disagreeing with mods on matters of policy – national or SDMB – has never been grounds for banning. \*\* Of course, and I never said it was. As I said- “step 3- jerklike behavior”- all those banned crossed the line, no doubt. I also have no doubt that some staff will bend over backwards- and some don’t. They still remain human. 😃 Now- some cross the line and no one says anything. Other cross that same line- and get warned. Others get banned- but return. Others get banned and are never seen again (well, except maybe on other boards). Now, perhaps part of this has nothing to do with Staff/Mods at all- to start with. Let us assume that the SDMB is mostly liberal- esp in GD (I am postulating this, mind you, not saying it is so). Thus, those with conservative points will get more arguements. Those who are _very_ right wing with find themself in an even smaller minority. So- there are just that many more dudes to complain about lapses, and also hit that “report this post” link. Maybe a borderline “jerk” post from someone who is in the majority won’t get noticed, but that same post will be reported a dozen times if he/she is a reactionary. There is absolutely no doubt that all those who were banned did “cross the line”. No one was banned just because of their viewpoint (if so, December, Wildest Bill & DITWD would have been gone much earlier). But I think that someone with very stong views gets noticed more, and those in the minority get noticed more in a bad way. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415/226 "2003-08-29T23:01:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ben Hicks \* > \*\*And lo, the baby Jesus stopped crying and bigged it up HUGE singing…etc etc \*\* Unless you’re looking to do a masterclass in crass, you might want to retract that post. Ta-ra December. You made me think, for which I thank you. Any chance you could cool it down a notch or two and ask for a second chance? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415/227 "2003-08-29T23:04:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TheLoadedDog \* > **The problem is not the moderators, but rather the membership. December’s OPs _were_ subjected to an extreme and unreasonable scrutiny. Ever last comma in a post of his was deconstructed by a posse of pile-onsters.** Which (IMO) could have been avoided if he had been more careful with his cites and had shown real interest in debate rather than just in the parroting of the party line. ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415/228 "2003-08-29T23:10:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jeff Olsen \* > \*\*Which (IMO) could have been avoided if he had been more careful with his cites and had shown real interest in debate rather than just in the parroting of the party line. \*\* Sure, but what of the option of simply ignoring the guy? If he’s just parroting unoriginal thought, then just think of him as “boring poster X” and move on. I really can’t see how **december** was so important to so many people here. As I said earlier, I found him mildly irritating in a kinda maybe sorta way. That was all. There are many more interesting characters to actively dislike on these boards. **December** wasn’t one of them. I just found him a bit silly. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415/229 "2003-08-29T23:19:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gary Kumquat \* > \*\*Any chance you could cool it down a notch or two and ask for a second chance? \*\* He tried that after being warned the first time. Didn’t work, obviously. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415/230 "2003-08-29T23:19:50Z")
MTGMAN – > [@](#): > > The biggest problem I ever had with the defenders of december was their constant use of the strawman that “you hate him because he’s a conservative” as opposed to accepting the possibility that people might be pissed at him because he was a liar. I can see this, but surely you admit that it’s hard to remember it’s _not_ about ideology – and I agree with you, it’s not, and I agree with you on his banning – when people on _both_ sides post stuff like this: > [@](#): > > You’re forgetting the rule of Conservative Oppression: If they don’t follow you unquestioningly, they are Liberal Attack Dogs. Hence, the media is biased and so is the management here. Neither side is any worse than the other in terms of pointless ideological attacks. Or any better. And neither side is any better about not rising to the bait or forebearing to respond in kind. ---
**Author:** ![Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boo_Boo_Foo)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415/231 "2003-08-29T23:23:43Z")
In many respects, I sincerely regret that I shared my little story regarding the death of my dearest friends 18 year old son in the Bali Bomb thread. With hindsight, it was almost a manipulative trick on my part to somehow, just somehow, tug at the heart of december underneath the impenetrable veneer. When I wrote my first post in that thread, I was clearly very fired up - I was fuming with righteous indignation that such a painful tragedy could have been exploited by **december** for the purposes of his SDMB posting style. I felt offended on behalf of all the poor people who no longer have a voice. But with hindsight, I know that to post on a messageboard at such times probably isn’t the wisest course - it leaves one’self open to all sorts of accusations of hysteria etc. And yet, ironically - I succeeded. **december** actually apologised for overstepping the mark and demonstrated that he does, indeed, have a good heart - a very good heart. Then he did an odd thing… instead of running with the contrition, he noted that a fellow Australian Doper later pointed out that there WERE one or two extremely insignificant protests in late 2001 about Australia’s decision to aid the USA in the Afghanistan campaign to throw out the Taliban. **december** chose to use this extremely tenuous and dubious fact to somehow “justify” the validity of his original OP in the Bali Bombing thread. That was a silly move. And not entirely noble either. He was given hell for it by **mhendo** , but for mine, I think that tends to exemplify **december’s** style - he likes to search for really dubious nuggets of history which can then be amplified beyond all truthful significance to validate his core beliefs - and well, that’s a pretty dodgy way of going about things for mine. Nonetheless, in the heat of the moment, I told **december** in that Bali thread that his OP had crossed the line and I hoped he would pay for it. With hindsight, I regret that I allowed myself to get so emotional, and secondly, I’m rather sad that it would appear that he DID indeed pay for it too. **december** - perhaps, if you are allowed back? Learn to trust some of us, my friend. Some of us, probably most of us, are very decent good people with our hearts in the right place. Learn to trust our observations, and learn from those observations therein. For now, go in peace, and travel safely. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415/232 "2003-08-29T23:30:27Z")
**TLD** : true 'dat. I did have an active dislike for **december** for a time after being burned by his antics; after a while I realized his time here was limited and pretty much ignored him. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415/233 "2003-08-29T23:30:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Apos \* > \*\*I think the case for Reeder stands upon its own merits. At the very least, somebody needs to teach that kid a lesson and give him a stern warning. \*\* Kid?? You call me a kid? I’m older than dirt son. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415/234 "2003-08-29T23:36:07Z")
Let’s settle this once and for all. A show of hands … how many Liberals at the board? Okay, now how many Conservatives. Look at that, more Liberals than Conservatives. Who gives a shit? It’s been made pretty clear what ol’ **december** was banned for. That being said, I absolutely disagree with the administration. I don’t think he was a troll. Trolls know they are stirring shit just to stir shit. I think **december** absolutely believed in everything he posted. That’s what made him funny. He was like the old fart sitting on the porch screaming for the kids to get off his lawn, only with like a thesaurus and typing skills. It’s not like he ever made any arguments that actually stood. Come on. Peace protesters = traitors? It was fucking comical, but like somebody said, “you can’t fight ignorance if you silence your opponent” (I paraphrase). But then again, in the long run … who cares? **december** got banned, not executed. His life isn’t over, and anybody who is so pissed off about his lack of posting privileges that it’s affecting their life … step back and take a fucking nap. Chee-rist. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415/235 "2003-08-29T23:36:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\*On the other hand, I don’t recall seeing liberal posters jumping to Reeder’s defense, or Chumpsky’s defense \*\* Above and beyond that, it was none other than a “liberal” poster who accused Chumpsky of the plagiarizing that led to his ultimate departure from the board. I remember it well, for that poster was yours truly. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415/236 "2003-08-29T23:37:28Z")
**reeder** said > [@](#): > > Kid?? You call me a kid? I’m older than dirt son Thus, proving that experience don’t mean shit. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415/237 "2003-08-29T23:50:00Z")
Most people more or less know me here. I mean read any three of my posts and you can guess how liberal I am. So this isn’t a rally, but an outreach. My best friend is a guy named Pete. He’s voted for every Bush who’s ever run for office. He told me recently that I was being misguided by CNN and that if I wanted real news I needed to read NewMax. He thinks Ann Coulter is the only voice of reason in America. He actively lobbied for Clinton not only to be impeached, but beheaded. I’ll see if I can get him to register … you know, to fill the void. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415/238 "2003-08-29T23:52:00Z")
> [@](#): > > That being said, I absolutely disagree with the administration. I don’t think he was a troll. Trolls know they are stirring shit just to stir shit. I think december absolutely believed in everything he posted. Then, **jack** , you have little powers of discrimination. If he believed in eveything he posted, why would he waffle and dissemble? which he almost always did, when confronted with evidence that contravened his trollish, inflammatory OP. He was just the 5.0 version of a troll. No doubt, there will be a 5.5 version waiting in the wings. I can’t wait. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415/239 "2003-08-29T23:53:08Z")
Oops. “NewMax” = New **s** Max, the more conservative version of FoxNews. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415/240 "2003-08-29T23:55:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jodi \* > \*\*I can see this, but surely you admit that it’s hard to remember it’s _not_ about ideology > … > Neither side is any worse than the other in terms of pointless ideological attacks. Or any better. And neither side is any better about not rising to the bait or forebearing to respond in kind. \*\* I gave the finger to both of the established political parties and most of the mainstream categories of ideologies a long time ago. I vote issues these days. I believe I can honestly say I don’t pay attention to the “D” or “R” or the “conservative” and “liberal” labels at all. They all suck and for me it’s just a question of choosing which boss sucks least. As to the allowing for misguided defenses of **december** because of a perception of him being picked on because of ideology instead of jerkitude, I don’t know. My tolerance for people continuing to support a straw man once it has been knocked down and the stuffing clearly displayed is fairly low. We’ve had so many “it’s about his ideology” discussions where people were asked to prove their assertions about the “liberal bias” of the SDMB. Asked to demonstrate why conservative posters who debate in good faith drew less fire than **december**. Asked to demonstrate why, if conservative viewpoints were the problem, why posters such as **Shodan** (who is further “right” than **december** ) escaped the scrutiny. I thought, almost six months ago when I wrote the post I linked to above, that I had put that strawman to bed. Yet I saw the same posters, [notably **Scylla** , pick it back up and re-stuff it](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=182629). Much as I tired of **december’s** constant misrepresentations of the positions and motives of his ideological opponents, I have tired of being tarred with the brush of being a knee-jerking liberal who denounces **december** because I can’t stand to have any ideology other than my own get airtime. I’ve fought that tarring in the past, but apparently the brush grows back if it gets trimmed to a reasonable size and there is an endless supply of tar. Enjoy, Steven [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415.md?page=13)