# December banning **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 29, 2003, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415 "2003-08-29T13:09:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![nisosbar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c37758/32.png) [@nisosbar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nisosbar)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415/381 "2003-08-30T21:10:30Z")
Then I would call on people who support December to e-mail Ed and to try to get an answer as to why december was banned, since it was clearly not fair, and to appeal for a reversal. I’m going to do that. Finally, who is at the top, above Ed? ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415/382 "2003-08-30T21:15:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mhendo \* > **It seems that, no matter the actual political situation–even if it involves a Republic president and a Republican-dominated Congress, as right now–conservatives feel better is they can portray themselves as a small group struggling against the overwhelming numbers of surging liberals and leftists who dominate America. This persecution complex helps sustain their moral rectitude.** I always wonder at how these people who think liberals are controlling the country explain Bush being president and Congress being controlled by the Republican party. Even if it was just the media, surely simple media bias would be enough for liberals to dominate? It’s very self-satisfying to consider yourself part of a discriminated minority, I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![porcupine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ac91a4/32.png) [@porcupine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/porcupine)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415/383 "2003-08-30T21:17:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jeff Olsen \* > **Moderators do not have the power to ban.** This used to be the case, but moderators can ban now. I believe it’s been that way for a few months. I can’t dig up a link, though, since you can’t search for the word “ban.” ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415/384 "2003-08-30T21:18:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by nisosbar \* > \*\*Finally, who is at the top, above Ed? \*\* As far as the SDMB is concerned, I think **Ed** _is_ the top. **Cecil** is probably too busy writing columns, plus he doesn’t really like computers. ---
**Author:** ![porcupine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ac91a4/32.png) [@porcupine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/porcupine)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415/385 "2003-08-30T21:18:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by nisosbar \* > \*\*Finally, who is at the top, above Ed? \*\* Mrs. Zotti, of course. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415/386 "2003-08-30T21:19:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by nisosbar \* > \*\*A personal attack is pretty clearly a personal attack, and the controversy generated by december’s ouster makes me want to coin a phrase like Shakespeare’s “methinks thou dost protest too much,” in that we’re all sittting here trying to figure out precisely why december was ousted, and that just convinces me that there was no good reason, and perhaps the moderator who banned him should be disciplined somehow? \*\* Actually, _some_ of us are _not_ trying to figure out why **december** was ousted, having accepted **Dex** ’s word for it. As for personal attacks? Well, I might have ignored the implication that anti-war protestors encourage terrorism if I hadn’t already read the threads suggesting that anti-war protestors were also anti-American, endangering the lives of US soldiers, and in the pay of Saddam Hussein. Given that I, and many others, have clearly made our views known about our opposition to this particular war, including directly to **december** , it’s kind of hard not to take repeated attempts to impugn our character as a personal insult, in the same way that **Esprix** (to pick the most visible example) would almost certainly take a GD OP stating that “Homosexuals may be responsible for 90% of all child molestation” to be a personal insult. **nisobar** : **Cecil Adams** is above **Ed**. Go right ahead and e-mail him. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415/387 "2003-08-30T21:21:12Z")
And I apologize for misspelling your name, **nisosbar**. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415/388 "2003-08-30T21:21:44Z")
**Apos** said: > [@](#): > > ## quote: > > ## He couldn’t offer the time of day without being attacked. > > I agree: people held his past against him for far too long. But for his part, he never really backed off for long either. He knew that the Bali thread would be inflammatory, because he’d posted many many threads before just like it, to much hue and cry. There was a fair point in there somewhere, but it couldn’t come from him and be recognized for what it was. The implications and assumptions about what he was really after, as unwarranted by the actual OP statements as they might have been, came built in with december’s history. I agree completely. Essentially, December was shunned. Run out of town on a rail. A bunch of members here decided he was persona non grata, and attacked him at every opportunity. Whether he deserved it or not was not their decision to make, and having mobs of angry people run people off the board should not be allowed. If December hadn’t been so stubborn, he would have left a long time ago of his own volition. It bothers me that this was allowed to happen, and the mods never went to December’s defense. That makes it all the more so troubling when he gets banned for an offense which is not clear and in any event looks like something that happens rather often around here. > [@](#): > > Many times I suggested to him that he branch out into other topics: into philosophy, into language, into art. Spend some time in Cafe Society too. Get to know people outside of a very narrow litany of partisan sniping matches. Sometimes he did seem like he was branching out. He definately had a lot to offer in other subjects. He was NOT a die-hard conservative in all of his opinions, and he was NOT unamenable to reconsidering points: as long as they were outside the very very cliched partisan knuckle fights he kept starting. The problem was that he kept returning to them, and any chance of building up good relations with people again kept getting squandered. He did post a lot in other threads. They just go unnoticed because his attitudes did not stand out so much in contrast in those threads. > [@](#): > > The fact is, you are more conservative, and more angry about it than december was. And yet the majority of people here _don’t_ immediately assume that your arguments and cites are nonsense and lies. Then you didn’t get the memo. According to at least ElvisL1ves, I’m just as bad as December was. > [@](#): > > But the problem is, if you are advancing an idea for debate and starting an OP, what you are doing is inviting skeptics, not supporters who already agree with you. If you start OPs, you are going to get a lot more pile-ons than if you start arguing midway into a thread, no matter who you are. December started a LOT of threads. I have a feeling that if he more often played the skeptic to anti-Bush threads, he NEVER would have developed the reputation he did. The same thing is happening with Reeder. There are plenty of liberals that have as blinkered a view of reality as Reeder, but the difference is that htey don’t start thread after thread inviting comment. This is a very fair point. December painted a very large target on his chest by starting all those OPs. When you present a hypothesis, it’s up to you to defend it. An OP is often presented as an hypothesis, and attracts a lot more criticism than a comment in someone else’s thread. No question about it. If he had been exactly like himself, but spent more time in other people’s threads rather than sitting on top of his own, he’d probably still be here. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415/389 "2003-08-30T21:22:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by porcupine \* > \*\*This used to be the case, but moderators can ban now. I believe it’s been that way for a few months. \*\* Could be. It would still have to be a democratic process, though. Nobody gets banned just because of one rogue Mod. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415/390 "2003-08-30T21:28:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sam Stone \* > \*\*If December hadn’t been so stubborn, he would have left a long time ago of his own volition. \*\* OTOH, if **december** hadn’t been so stubborn, he would have permantly cleaned up his act after that first emailed warning. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415/391 "2003-08-30T21:29:04Z")
**Squink** said: > [@](#): > > Sam have you ever even been pitted, much less had anyone seriously call for your banning ? A quick search on “Stone” in pit titles reveals Rolling Stone, Oliver Stone, and Kidney Stone, but no Sam Stone. > You’ve been accused of idiocy, ignorance, and partisan idolatry on occasion, but AFAIK, never trollery or intentional deception. Perhaps that’s because, unlike december you’re not a deceitful troll ? Never been pitted. People have tried, but my pact with Satan causes them to have epileptic seizures as they attempt to press the ENTER key. It’s true - I’ve never been pitted as far as I know. But why should people bother? They get away with the equivalent of pit attacks in Great Debates. ---
**Author:** ![nisosbar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c37758/32.png) [@nisosbar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nisosbar)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415/392 "2003-08-30T21:43:20Z")
I think I’m beginning to see things more clearly now. I’ve been lurking and posting here not too long, and haven’t seen events transpire like old-time members, but I do indeed see the moderators going around willy-nilly, arbitrarily closing threads, banning members, etc. If that’s the way the SDMB is run, then I probably need to find a different message board, or at least bump SDMB down my list of IBB’s from number 2 to 3 or 4. It’s amateurish and unprofessional not to have a more clear set of guidelines as to what are bannable offenses. The SDMB has oodles of members, but if Cecil or Ed don’t really care what happens on the message board or what the moderators/other administrators do, then are any of us here really having a productive debate at all when one side is punished for offenses which go unpunished when the offense promotes the opposing viewpoint’s position or is committed by a confirmed member of the moderator’s political ideology? I am definitely not conservative, but I thought december’s posts were thought-provoking and intelligently constructed (like the post about Maureen Dowd’s “racist” column about Clarence Thomas), which made me think a little bit more than if I was listening to someone preach to the choir. IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415/393 "2003-08-30T21:44:01Z")
Daniel argues: > [@](#): > > Second, december was not polite. He made grievous accusations cloaked in polite language, threw out silver-plated turds. I’ve stayed out of this argument because I haven’t been around the SDMB long enough to have an opinion that’s worth bandwith. I merely offer this clarification (based on personal experience) for consideration: _Bullshit_ is a nasty, smelly, amorphous blob of excrement, that clings to the flinger as much as the flingee. _Horseshit_ is smooth, often shiny, well-formed into neat buns, and less offensive to the olfactory sense; all in all, much more attractive at first glance than bullshit. But it’s still crap. _Compost_ is manure and other organic materials that have been seasoned over time and metamorphosed into fertilizer that promotes healthy growth. So, was december shoveling bullshit? Or horseshit? Or offering well-cured compost? Again, I haven’t been around long enough to take a stand. Maybe we should open up a poll in IMHO? “December: Bullshit? Horseshit? Compost?” ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415/394 "2003-08-30T21:52:08Z")
Oh dear god, won’t somebody please compile a comprehensive list of bannable offenses for **nisobar** , then individually explain why administrative action was taken for each and every locked thread and banned poster? This is serious, people–he’s threating to bump the SDMB down to number 3 or 4 on his list of message boards! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415/395 "2003-08-30T21:56:43Z")
I’m fairly new as a poster but have been lurking for some time. Until the Iraq War, I didn’t think **december** did a thing that approached being bannable. But it’s clear to me that he feels so passionate about the righteousness of this war that he just couldn’t keep both feet in bounds. Although I disagreed with him 95% of the time, I thought he started a lot of threads that I learned something from. Generally, I’d learn much more from the opposition posters than from him, but he started the ball rolling on a lot of interesting threads. I will miss his contributions and hope that after a cooling off period, he returns. I hope that **december** finds peace and happiness whether he returns or not. I didn’t often agree with him, but he seemed like the kind of guy I’d like for a friend. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415/396 "2003-08-30T21:59:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by nisosbar \* > \*\*I think I’m beginning to see things more clearly now. I’ve been lurking and posting here not too long, and haven’t seen events transpire like old-time members, but I do indeed see the moderators going around willy-nilly, arbitrarily closing threads, banning members, etc. \*\* Looks can be deceiving. In my experience: [ul][li]Threads are locked because they’re redundant, opened in the wrong forum, spam, or it was requested by the threadstarter. [\*]The vast majority of those who were banned deserved it for posting spam, personal attacks outside of the Pit, trolling, or sockpuppetry (returning after they’ve been banned under a previous name).[/ul][/li] On preview: will that do, **minty**? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415/397 "2003-08-30T22:00:34Z")
\>\> december’s posts were thought-provoking and intelligently constructed Ha! Like the one where he said the UN were disqualified from doing _anything_ because of the workers’ strike at their cafeteria? If that is not asinine I don’t know what is. Or the one where in the face of all evidence and reasoning he staunchly defended that the Cuban government forced children into prostitution? I never saw him offer an interesting opinion or idea. he just repeated rubbish he had read elsewhere and was incapable of any intelligent reasoning. And how about calling people who criticised the present government “antiamerican” or say they were helping terrorists? Or those who disagreed with him on the israeli-palestinian matter “antisemitic”? And BTW, I am more on the side of Israel than of the Palestinians and I am as capitalist as one can be and I have a few other points of coincidence with december so it is hogwash to say it was the lefties who piled on him. He was a disgrace for those of us who did not want to be associated with him. He was a jerk and he was rightly banned for being a jerk. Good riddance and may he never return. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415/398 "2003-08-30T22:03:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by WinstonSmith \* > Well tell me again why rjung hasn’t been banned? Because I’m so polite? 🙂 > [@](#): > > I must be ripe for banning for I can’t seem to remember one good thing rjung has brought to the boards? That’s only because you don’t find debunking conservative bullstuff (and boy, has there been a lot of it in the last six months) to be a good thing. But that’s okay, Fox News is just a remote-control away. Besides, I save all my good material for Cafe Society these days – Pratchett quotes, transforming robots, and 80’s video games all at the drop of a hat. I do birthday parties and bar mitzvahs, too. 🙂 As for all the forehead-clasping po’ persecuted righties(_) whining in this thread – damn, I knew I should have picked up more nails when I went to Home Depot earlier this morning. You guys already have enough wooden crosses around here for a low-income housing project… (_ = And yes, **Weirddave,** that means you too. Just because you say you’re a moderate doesn’t make you one. 😉 ) ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415/399 "2003-08-30T22:14:41Z")
OK, I have a question. Now that the original **december** is gone, is **Reeder** now promoted from “the lefty **december** ” to just “the **december** ”? Perhaps we need to formalize the rules for the title of **december**. We can have a left **december** , and a right **december**. **Reeder** pretty much has the left locked up, but maybe we need to elect a conservative to hold the now-vacant right **december** title. Any nominations? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415/400 "2003-08-30T22:23:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sam Stone \* > I’m a fiscal conservative, and a social liberal. Excuse me while I recover from spewing my coke all over the monitor 😃 I’m generally in agreement with you on most issues, but your stand on socialized medicine, the hallmark of social liberalism smacks as ultra right wing, particularly from a Canadian perspective. It is ironic that in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=163286&highlight=health+care) we have **december** advocating for a British style socialized health care system while you criticize Canada’s socialized system which Canadians (including many conservatives) would never give up. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415.md?page=21)