# December banning **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 29, 2003, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415 "2003-08-29T13:09:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415/101 "2003-08-29T15:48:25Z")
Regarding **Reeder** , here’s my motives: december infuriated me. **Reeder** embarrasses me. I’m a lot likelier to rise to the former than to the latter. But I am confused why so many conservatives feel the need to defend december: I certainly don’t see liberals defending **Reeder** very often at all. Quite the contrary. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415/102 "2003-08-29T15:49:11Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by elf6c_ > Its easier on their self-esteem to believe they are so disliked and reviled because of the “vast liberal conspiracy” against them rather then their own reprehensible behavior here. With posts like this, I can see how some get that impression - you are accusing a large number of conservative posters of “reprehensible behaviour” with not one example to show. You ought to consider that being against december’s banning does not imply that one is conservative, nor does it imply that one is guilty of the same behaviour as december. Feelings are running high here and I disagree that december was banned for any conspiracy, but this post is pretty damn rude. “They” are not “disliked and reviled”. This may be your particular bent, but that’s your problem. ---
**Author:** ![TaxGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@TaxGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TaxGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415/103 "2003-08-29T15:51:08Z")
Neurotik, compare Reeder’s threads on the one hand with the december Bali thread and several threads with kputt, his4ever, and jerseydiamond on the other hand. People with unpopular viowpoints around here (conservative and christian fundamentalist) get hen-pecked until they explode, then banned. Happens time and time again. And now someone ELSE will be right along to call me a conservative and a christian, neither of which I actually am. ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415/104 "2003-08-29T15:56:05Z")
I will not rejoice that he’s gone, but I won’t mourn him, either. The only good thing that can come from this is to chill GD the fuck out. Everybody’s emotions are high right now–I know mine are–on both sides of the fence. And I’m talking about the entire country here, not just the board. The level of political discourse has been dropping since the 90’s, and the Iraq war just pulled the floor out from under it. Look, people, we’re in a world of shit right now and neither side has all the answers as to how to get out of it. The rest of the country can be at each other’s throats, but that doesn’t mean we have to be! We’re supposed to be the smart ones, right? Just because we disagree on policy or outlook or even basic principles of life doesn’t mean we have to hate each other! That’s the genius of America! de Tocqueville said one of the great things about America was that two men could argue politics on the street and leave friends. Is that still true today? We’re all in the same boat. I’m not saying eveybody has to agree with everybody else–far from it. We’ve got to disagree and debate if the truth is to win out–it is the American way. But please, please, please, let’s tone down the rhetoric! Lefties are not unpatriotic traitors who should be silenced and righties are not fascist imperialists who should be thrown up against a wall. The two most inflammatory posters are gone, and if we ignore Reeder, he’s wither away. The rest of the country can be assholes, but we’ve got to hold ourselves to a higher standard here or the free exchange of ideas and intelligent debate that drew us all to these boards will disappear. I know I don’t post as often or as well in GD as many people, but I read the threads religiously and I know a lot of other people do, too. We’re not operating in a vacuum–there are thousands and thousands of people who read these debates and are influenced by them. Don’t forget that. Somebody’s got to be the first to climb out of the gutter and it might as well be us. I’ll get off my fucking high horse now. I’m not applying for junior mod, I just love the boards and want to see us do the right thing. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415/105 "2003-08-29T15:56:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*grienspace asked \* > So what is the object of terror CarnalK and what is the measure by which the terrorists can assume that their strategy is succeeding in their long term struggle? Huh? Are you saying the goal of terrorists is to increase peace protests or that protests are used as a success measure by terrorists? Since terrorists usually have specific goals wouldn’t they actually use the realization of those goals as a measure (eg the **actual** removal of troops from Saudi Arabia)? It is still just flimsy guess work. If a terrorist decides to ignore what protesters actually say about him(hint:most don’t like terrorists) and chooses to believe they support him, wtf can anyone do about it? And this is starting to sound familiar. Maybe you should voice your support for **december** ’s stance on the Bali thread. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415/106 "2003-08-29T16:05:06Z")
> [@](#): > > Yep, it’s hard to run a proper circle-jerk when everyone wants to use their left hand except that one annoying bastard that insists on using his right… Glad to see order has been restored. Please carry on, nothing to see here… Don’t worry, there will never be any shortage of right wankers around here. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415/107 "2003-08-29T16:05:35Z")
Likely the biggest reason why **december** was banned and **Reeder** hasn’t been is because **december** has been “decembering” for years, where **Reeder** only recently been sailing those waters (from the other side of the ocean, I suppose). ---
**Author:** ![TaxGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@TaxGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TaxGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415/108 "2003-08-29T16:06:28Z")
> [@](#): > > But I am confused why so many conservatives feel the need to defend december: I certainly don’t see liberals defending Reeder very often at all. Quite the contrary. You probably think you are talking to me, but I’m neither conservative nor defending december, so I believe you aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![Avalonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@Avalonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avalonian)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415/109 "2003-08-29T16:11:09Z")
I disagreed with 90%, maybe more, of what **december** posted, and I disagreed strongly with his posting style. I think saying he was “polite” shows at least partial ignorance of the depths to which he was willing to sink to push his agenda, and how broadly he was willing to tar his opponents in a debate. Not content to simply insult one or two of the people he disagrees with, **december** insulted them all with one fell swoop. His debating style was slippery and underhanded, and he rarely admitted he was flat-out wrong about something, despite having it pointed out to him in the clearest of terms. That said, and contrary to the predictable knee-jerks of the likes of **Shodan** and **TaxGuy** , I did not want to see **december** banned, just as I did not believe **Collounsbury** should have been banned, and I have said so several times. Both were controversial, both were abrasive, but both made their contribution to the group of ideas that make the SDMB what it is. The board is lessened by their abscence. Someone mentioned diversity earlier, and I find it unfortunate that the diversity of the board is reduced, at least a little bit, every time a frequent contributor like **Coll** or **december** is banned. Though the posters who are banned often seem to ask for it, and it’s rarely a real surprise, it is still too bad that it has to happen. To **Shodan** and **TaxGuy** and **SnoopyFan** and others who believe **december** was banned because of his politics rather than his posting style, I point out three things. First, **Collounsbury** , about as left as left can get, was recently re-banned, as I’m sure you know. Second, **Reeder** , also about as left as left can get, has been warned by a Mod to clean up his posting style. **december** received a similar warning not so long ago. I believe that they are both being treated equally, in terms of board rules. **Reeder** has been given a chance to change, just as **december** was, and if he doesn’t, I expect he’ll be gone soon too. Third, conservative posters such as yourselves, **Scylla** , **Brutus** , and others are quite plainly safe, as you do not engage in the same sorts of shenanigians **december** did. In short, accusations of partisanism on the parts of the Mods in banning **december** are way out of line here, in my opinion. I did not want to see him go, but I cannot say I am surprised to see him go. It was not any one post, but a long-standing (and worsening) pattern of behavior which did it. He had been warned, multiple times, and this time he didn’t heed the warnings. He reaped his own reward, and was reaped in return. As for the politics of the board itself, I think **DanielWithrow** put it best in the Bali thread, so I’ll quote him here: > [@](#): > > **As an aside, I think the board’s politics lean heavily toward the individualistic (what’s known as “Libertarian” in the United States), toward a nearly anarchocapitalist philosophy, and away from a communitarian attitude. That gets misinterpreted as liberal by some, as conservative by others; in truth, those labels inadequately describe the board’s general leanings. Although Binarydrone is correct, that the many different political philosophies make the boards interesting.** I don’t have much to add to that, but assertions that the board is left- or right-leaning (nearly always made by those who lean the other way, you’ll note), are always met by a very justified :rolleyes: on my part. To **december** , a genuine farewell. I can’t say I agreed with you much, but I do say that you were part of what made this place interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415/110 "2003-08-29T16:13:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TaxGuy \* > \*\*Neurotik, compare Reeder’s threads on the one hand with the december Bali thread and several threads with kputt, his4ever, and jerseydiamond on the other hand. People with unpopular viowpoints around here (conservative and christian fundamentalist) get hen-pecked until they explode, then banned. Happens time and time again… \*\* You seem to be missing a couple of points. It’s not the unpopular opinions, it’s the way they’re presented. And **kputt** was banned because he requested it. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415/111 "2003-08-29T16:17:04Z")
Does anyone seriously believe that the mods are sitting around monitoring posts for political content, ready to pounce if someone’s too conservative? GMAFB :rolleyes: **December** was conservative for years without getting banned. We have people _in this thread_ who are probably more conseravative than december and they’re in no danger because they haven’t deliberately _lied_ in an OP. December isn’t even a fundy and fundies tend to get more grief than anyone else around here. Remember **Chompsky**? He was more lefty even than **Reeder** (or _me_, for that matter ;)) and he got banned pretty quick for his own dishonesty. Really, think about what your accusing the mods of. It’s ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415/112 "2003-08-29T16:20:58Z")
**DtC** , it was **Chumpsky** wasn’t it? > [@](#): > > _Taxguy said_ > You probably think you are talking to me, but I’m neither conservative nor defending december, so I believe you aren’t. **Taxguy** , can I have a slice of your megalomania. It looks delicious. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415/113 "2003-08-29T16:22:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > **Remember Chompsky? He was more lefty even than Reeder (or _me_, for that matter ;)) and he got banned pretty quick for his own dishonesty.** As was pointed out to me not long ago, **Chumpsky** wasn’t really banned though probably would have been if he hadn’t left on his own accord. ---
**Author:** ![LordVor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/90ced4/32.png) [@LordVor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LordVor)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415/114 "2003-08-29T16:24:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TaxGuy \* > **People with unpopular viowpoints around here (conservative and christian fundamentalist) get hen-pecked until they explode, then banned. Happens time and time again.** Yeah, you’re right of course. december bravely put up with almost 4 freaken years of henpecking before “exploding” by knowingly misrepresenting facts in GD and claiming that peace protestors caused the Bali blase (despite the fact that the Bali blast happened a good 6 months prior to any protests). :rolleyes: If december was banned for his politics, then why did he last so long? Have his politics changed in the last 6 months, or has his posting style? Cut him down off the cross. -lv ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415/115 "2003-08-29T16:26:06Z")
> [@](#): > > That said, and contrary to the predictable knee-jerks of the likes of Shodan and TaxGuy, I did not want to see december banned, just as I did not believe Collounsbury should have been banned, and I have said so several times. Both were controversial, both were abrasive, but both made their contribution to the group of ideas that make the SDMB what it is. The board is lessened by their abscence. I agree with this. I’d like to see them both come back. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415/116 "2003-08-29T16:26:25Z")
**TaxGuy** , your claim that you’re not conservative is pretty bizarre, given your posts here – I think the word means something different to you from what it means to me. Certainly I’ve never seen you frothing and freaking out about mindless conservatives, the way you spaz on about liberals. Nevertheless, claims like yours are part of why I distrust self-styled Libertarians in general. While specific Libertarians aren’t always raving conservatives, they very often are. In short, when you say you’re not conservative, I don’t believe you. Daniel not a liberal ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415/117 "2003-08-29T16:32:11Z")
I guess I’m another of those liberals who are sad to see **december** go. If only he hadn’t deliberately distorted the truth in the **Clinton/Bush quote/trolling** and again in the **Bali bombing** thread, he would probably still be here. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415/118 "2003-08-29T16:32:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CarnalK \* > **DtC, it was Chumpsky wasn’t it?** Yes, **Chumpsky** , that was it. I guess I was getting my pinkos mixed up. 😉 > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Jeff Olsen_ > **As was pointed out to me not long ago, Chumpsky wasn’t really banned though probably would have been if he hadn’t left on his own accord.** Thanks for the correction. I agree he probably would (and should) have been banned if he had stayed. ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415/119 "2003-08-29T16:34:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dead Badger \* > \*\*With posts like this, I can see how some get that impression - you are accusing a large number of conservative posters of “reprehensible behaviour” with not one example to show. You ought to consider that being against december’s banning does not imply that one is conservative, nor does it imply that one is guilty of the same behaviour as december. Feelings are running high here and I disagree that december was banned for any conspiracy, but this post is pretty damn rude. “They” are not “disliked and reviled”. This may be your particular bent, but that’s your problem. \*\* Oh please. I in no way was accusing a large number of posters, **please do not misstate my position**. The posters in question are more then “against” december’s banning. They ascribed it solely due to his far right political beliefs and the “liberal bias”, not his conduct. Based on the formal warnings he has recieved, the deliberate lies he posted solely to get responses, and the two threads equating those who protested the war to supporting terrorism their seemed to be vast grounds for a decision like this. But, in the Bali thread and here they have done nothing but rail about the massive liberal conspiracy against **december** and posters like them. In their narrow minds the negative responses they receive and any banning of a conservative poster is due to their political beliefs and not their behavior or rule violations. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415/120 "2003-08-29T16:44:08Z")
Forgive me, **Tax Guy**. I should not have painted you with the conservative label. It was sloppy and lazy of me. Instead of using such shorthand I should have made a point of describing you as an oppressed, liberal-hating, independent spirit, who sides with the knee-jerk rightwingers only to oppose the evil screaming liberals. Better? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-banning/198415.md?page=7)