# December: Blog Spotter Extraordinaire & Tireless Informer on Sins of Liberals, etc **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 8, 2003, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-blog-spotter-extraordinaire-tireless-informer-on-sins-of-liberals-etc/173899 "2003-05-08T14:33:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-blog-spotter-extraordinaire-tireless-informer-on-sins-of-liberals-etc/173899/21 "2003-05-08T20:43:19Z")
Wring: What you say is true. I apogize if I’ve given the impression that I am arguing otherwise. I am by no means saying all liberals ignore liberal blather, while all conservatives are ready to jump in on conservative blather. As you rightly note, you are one of a large minority of liberal minded posters that do consistently object to lunatics arguing liberal viewpoints. My point is a subjective one, but I believe that it is a correct even though I am a conservative, and it may seem self-serving: I would say that overrall there is a lot more slack granted to liberals bashing the opposition in egregious and unsupportable fashion than vice-versa. On this board it seems to me that liberals tend to pull and get away with this kind of thing more than conservatives. I attribute that to the fact that there seem to be a lot more liberals than conservatives on the board, nothing more than that. Would you disagree with this asessment? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-blog-spotter-extraordinaire-tireless-informer-on-sins-of-liberals-etc/173899/22 "2003-05-08T20:55:30Z")
I disagree, **Scylla** , remember how many times **Stoid** was dragged in here around the elections? **Chlumpsky** was pretty fair left and look where he always ended up? It doesn’t matter. It’s his ACTIONS that get him pitted, not his beliefs. After all, I don’t have any beef with you, **Scylla** , or a lot of other conservative posters. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-blog-spotter-extraordinaire-tireless-informer-on-sins-of-liberals-etc/173899/23 "2003-05-08T20:55:49Z")
mtgman: > [@](#): > > No, the problem with december is that virtually every exchange goes like this. > > december: some overbroad assertion with no, or anecdotal, evidence. Often simply the personal opinion of some random pundit who would never have gotten any airtime if it weren’t for the Internet. Most traditional media have a QA threshold. > Somebody Else: Your assertion doesn’t apply to Group X, and I’m not sure it is an accurate representation of much of anything. Show some evidence that people actually believe this way please. > december: Completely inaccurate representation of the other poster’s objection, morphed in such a way as to be completely repugnant. I guess this means you support raping puppies. By the way, SomeRandomPunditWhoDeservesToHaveHisInternetPrivelegesRevokedForWritingWithoutThinking agrees with me. This may be true, but you’ve also described quite a few Bush-bashing threads in GD. > [@](#): > > Damnit Scylla, you’ve been on the recieving end of his bad faith and distortions! Why in hell do you defend him? In that thread you called him a liar and told him it was low to sling accusations of racism without merit. Are you defending him because you’re willing to tolerate lies and baseless accusations of racism as long as they are lies/slanders about/of your ideological opponents? Good god man! I can’t imagine you believe it is better to have liars on your side than to honestly engage your opponents on the actual issues. Why in hell are you glossing over his bad faith? It’s true I find myself between a rock and a hard place here. I find **December’s** propensity for generalization and drawing broad and irrational conclusions to be indefensible when they occur. The other part of me gets a little bit mad when I see him attacked so strongly though. At first I thought that this was my own partisanship. That perhaps it only looks one-sided to me because I share a common political philosophy with December in some way. However, even after acknowledging and trying to discount this possiblility it seemed quite clear to me that there is a double standard that very often occurs on these boards, and that double standard is why December is so consistently maligned for doing things (wrong things,) that a person with the opposite view can and does get away with. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-blog-spotter-extraordinaire-tireless-informer-on-sins-of-liberals-etc/173899/24 "2003-05-08T20:59:03Z")
well, let’s see, first of all: **Elvis** that crap about suggesting that \*\*december’s \*\* still not banned 'cause of **UncleBeer/manny’s** conservatism is absolute bs. and is the sort of thing that makes folks like me wince. now, back to you, **Scylla** - My sense is that the board does indeed have more liberals than conservatives, and also at the moderator/administrator level (usual disclaimer about liberals/conservatives/labeling folks etc.). what I suspect then happens is that since any particular group is unlikely to post pit threads about their own, it’s more likely that pit threads will get started about a poster w/a conservative viewpoint than a liberal one. hence the proliferation of **december/wildest bill** pit threads. I’m not assuming that there’s not a similar percentage of lunatic liberals posting idiotic threads, but I don’t often see the conservatives posting pit threads about em (except **Stoid** during the elections). Maybe that’s another case of selective memory. Now, if you’re questioning ‘does the administration give more slack to conservatives/liberals re Banning/leeway to post inflamatory stuff’, I’m not certain I agree, but I’m willing to see some comparisons. problem is, 'cause of our own perception kinds of things, I don’t necessarily remember at first blush which idiotic threads get the pass when it’s liberals. I remember it took a helluva lot for **Wildest Bill** to get banned, and I think that **december** nudges that line pretty damned close himself. so, since I recall conservative transgressions so much better (:D), perhaps you’d be so kind as to give some examples of liberal b/s? Specifically I’d be looking for threads started by a liberal based on less than steller substance. (since that’s the begining issue for **december** bashing - that he starts inflamatory style threads w/little evidence or questionable evidence to support the position). and either GD/Pit is fine, I’d think. I’m not trying to pass the buck - we all have somewhat of selective memory for stuff that annoys I think. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-blog-spotter-extraordinaire-tireless-informer-on-sins-of-liberals-etc/173899/25 "2003-05-08T21:07:44Z")
Wring: Well there is **Elvis**. Perhaps you should appoint a member of the liberal board of standards to follow him around disclaiming his viewpoints. Beyond that, I don’t want to go into specific active posters or threads simply to avoid a board war. I don’t think the Mods offer a double standard. However while there is only one true December, he has 5-6 liberal counterparts who are just as bad. Say what you want about the guy, he’s usually fairly courteous and polite, which is more than you can say about his counterparts who operate with impunity. Again, I’ve self-evaluated this for selective perception which is always a danger, and still think it’s valid. I assert without a contention stronger than personal opinion, though. YMMV ---
**Author:** ![Mojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Mojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mojo)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-blog-spotter-extraordinaire-tireless-informer-on-sins-of-liberals-etc/173899/26 "2003-05-08T21:16:03Z")
Looking at GD right now there’s three threads on the front page that he’s started- “Terrorist attacks drop. Is the War on Terror working?”, “Has the UN been good at nation-building and maintaining peace & stability?”, and “Are liberals less interested in the history of foreign countries than conservatives?”. The first two seem reasonable to me, the third is nowhere near being a Grreat Debate and is (IMHO) the cheap-potshot-at-liberals that he’s rightfully been accused of. This seems about right- 1/2 to (getting closer to 2/3rds recently) of the time he does add something of substance, but that other 1/2 is a potshot masquerading as a debate and usually is long on tangentally related cites (usually others opinion pieces) and short on supporting facts. ---
**Author:** ![IzzyR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-blog-spotter-extraordinaire-tireless-informer-on-sins-of-liberals-etc/173899/27 "2003-05-08T21:19:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wring \* > My sense is that the board does indeed have more liberals than conservatives, and also at the moderator/administrator level (usual disclaimer about liberals/conservatives/labeling folks etc.). I agree. My own - subjective - view is that the number of moderate conservatives might rival the number of moderate liberals. The huge imbalance is in the number of right-wing conservatives vs. left-wing liberals. > [@](#): > > what I suspect then happens is that since any particular group is unlikely to post pit threads about their own, it’s more likely that pit threads will get started about a poster w/a conservative viewpoint than a liberal one. hence the proliferation of december/wildest bill pit threads. Exactly. Of additional significance is the fact that the “success” of a pile-on thread is dependent on the availability of posters to pile on. And this in turn influences the starting of threads. Once someone has a history of being the victim of successful pile-ons, it encourages other people to start Pit threads about them, as there is a greater chance of success, and less risk of the dreaded “reverse pile-on”. In a similar vein, a person with no history but expressing views not generally tolerated by posters on these boards can be pitted with greater confidence than a person whose views are more in line with the mainstream. > [@](#): > > Now, if you’re questioning ‘does the administration give more slack to conservatives/liberals re Banning/leeway to post inflamatory stuff’, I’m not certain I agree, but I’m willing to see some comparisons. I’ve not seen evidence of this. But what I DO maintain is that being unpopular and the subject of multiple complaints and pit threads will cause the administration to judge your transgressions a lot harsher than they would those of someone who has not been subject to the same. Natural reaction. So the reactions of board members - and hence the political composition of the board - indirectly influences administrative decisions as well, IMHO. Good balanced post, BTW. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-blog-spotter-extraordinaire-tireless-informer-on-sins-of-liberals-etc/173899/28 "2003-05-08T21:22:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > **It’s true I find myself between a rock and a hard place here. I find December’s propensity for generalization and drawing broad and irrational conclusions to be indefensible when they occur.** The part which broke my back was when it became clear to me that the distortions are deliberate. It wasn’t a case of him overgeneralizing out of ignorance. It wasn’t that he didn’t understand that the specific case may not apply to the general, it was deliberately overextended. It is a case of him overgeneralizing and distorting in order to demonize. I simply can’t imagine any other motive for turning the dubious “useful idiots” theory into “The Pope supports a regime that murders Jews.”\*\* > [@](#): > > The other part of me gets a little bit mad when I see him attacked so strongly though. > > At first I thought that this was my own partisanship. That perhaps it only looks one-sided to me because I share a common political philosophy with December in some way. > > However, even after acknowledging and trying to discount this possiblility it seemed quite clear to me that there is a double standard that very often occurs on these boards, and that double standard is why December is so consistently maligned for doing things (wrong things,) that a person with the opposite view can and does get away with. \*\* I’d draw your attention to **i am sparticus** and **The Ace of Swords**. Both highly liberal. Both displayed the same traits of bad faith debate and chronic use of offensive straw men. Both are banned, and I’m sure you remember both of them well. I’d suspect **Diogenes the Cynic** probably isn’t far from his final warning either. I can’t count the number of times that jerk has been reigned in for his aggressive demonization of his opponents. As a moderate I tend to notice the extremists of both stripes and I’m not above smacking either down. I’ve countered the spin by both **december** and **OliverH** in a recent thread in GD. I’m composing(in another window) yet another reply to that thread to chastise **OliverH** for his poor debate style and misrepresentations. Overall you may be right that the board is slightly left-of-center in its makeup and ideological tolerances. Still, there comes a point where one is so far out in EITHER direction that it becomes a burden to fight their willful ignorance. IMHO both **december** and **Diogenes the Cynic** although on opposite ends of the ideological spectrum, are both damn close to being more of a hindrance to the fight against ignorance than a help. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-blog-spotter-extraordinaire-tireless-informer-on-sins-of-liberals-etc/173899/29 "2003-05-08T21:31:45Z")
Yeah, he was really polite when he said that the Pope supported Iraq and that he encouraged the Palestinians to commit terrorism against Israel. It’s called be disengenious. I don’t care how “polite” he is-his tone is, but his point is insulting. If he’s going to insult me, I’d prefer him to do it straight out than weasel around. ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-blog-spotter-extraordinaire-tireless-informer-on-sins-of-liberals-etc/173899/30 "2003-05-08T21:34:12Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **Shodan** :_ > Can’t say I always agree with him, but I suspect some of the resentment comes from the fact that you can’t bait him into responding in kind, and getting banned. > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally posted by Collounsbury in Great Debates - > > On the basis of this alone I name this idjit a nitwit…worthless posturing by an attention seeking twit. > > And yet december is the one being Pitted. Odd, that. Rather than say anything else, **Shodan** , would you care to re-read that thread, come back, and tell us who the “attention seeking twit” is in **Collounsbury** ’s (two) remarks? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-blog-spotter-extraordinaire-tireless-informer-on-sins-of-liberals-etc/173899/31 "2003-05-08T21:38:54Z")
Hell, **Collunsbury** was also banned (and reinstated after promising to shape up). See? ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-blog-spotter-extraordinaire-tireless-informer-on-sins-of-liberals-etc/173899/32 "2003-05-08T21:39:35Z")
\ Franco is still dead and december’s still a jerk \ ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-blog-spotter-extraordinaire-tireless-informer-on-sins-of-liberals-etc/173899/33 "2003-05-08T21:54:45Z")
impressive list there, **mtgman** - whadya say, **Scylla** tho’ I would disallow the reference to **Ace** since seems to me that his banning was related more to the whole circle jerk thing he did w/ **Joe\_Cool** than his other behavior (just as I’d suggest that **Joe’s** banning was totally unrelated to his political viewpoint type responses and was more related to the whole being over the top mean to specific posters). **Izzy** 😉 we aims to please. **Scylla** hey, I call it when I see it, have been avoiding GD of late so can’t help ya there. maybe **kimstu**?? ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-blog-spotter-extraordinaire-tireless-informer-on-sins-of-liberals-etc/173899/34 "2003-05-08T22:24:48Z")
Quite frankly I think **Ace** belongs in the list because his aggressive strawman usage was, although not always along political lines, certainly present. His final strawman was the “you hate him because he’s honest and won’t cow to your will” and the ever popular “gotta suck up to the mods or you’ll be banned”. His use of straw men and bad faith in debates before that timeframe was pretty liberal as well. As for **i am sparticus** , well, **Scylla** no doubt remembers very well the types of straw men, bad faith arguments, and misrepresentations that fool spewed. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-blog-spotter-extraordinaire-tireless-informer-on-sins-of-liberals-etc/173899/35 "2003-05-08T22:29:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\* But until then, we can’t afford to just avoid his threads-as some will tell us. > > We’re here to fight ignorance. \*\* Geeze, always having to try to fight December’s ignorance, a person could end up with close to like fifteen thousand posts… Oh. Never mind… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-blog-spotter-extraordinaire-tireless-informer-on-sins-of-liberals-etc/173899/36 "2003-05-08T22:32:02Z")
ok, fair enough. So we have one notable conservative banning, and several notable liberal bannings, and another I just remembered, but don’t want to invoke. **Scylla**? am I missing a notable conservative?? ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-blog-spotter-extraordinaire-tireless-informer-on-sins-of-liberals-etc/173899/37 "2003-05-08T22:36:08Z")
Oh, and both the late, unlamented, **Ace** and **sparticus** used their straw men to demonize. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-blog-spotter-extraordinaire-tireless-informer-on-sins-of-liberals-etc/173899/38 "2003-05-08T22:36:56Z")
So **december** gets picked on because he’s conservative, not because he does so many jerkish things? Interesting hypothesis. One would suspect that if the hypothesis were true, his conservative defenders in this thread would get Pitted with something approaching the same regularity as december. To test it, let’s apply the same methodology as applied to december and Wildest Bill. **Scylla** : Pitted 5 times, including one co-Pitting with **Stoid** when **squeegee** wanted you both to shut the fuck up already. (Total does not include 5 self-started attention-seeking threads, 4 joke threads started by other people, and 1 thread by a nutcase whose psychosis had nothing to do with pitting Scylla.) **Shodan** : Pitted 2 times. (Total does not include 1 thread started by Arnold Winkelried that was a clarification on Pit rules, not a flame.) **IzzyR** (who is not claiming a conservative witch hunt, but who is conservative and therefore someone you would also expect to be frequently pitted if the witch hunt hypothesis were correct): Pitted 1 time. Conclusion: The You-Guys-Just-Hate-Conservatives hypothesis is bunk. [sub]Just for comparitive purposes, I’ve been Pitted 4 times, including once by that ratfink Nazi bastard, **elucidator**.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-blog-spotter-extraordinaire-tireless-informer-on-sins-of-liberals-etc/173899/39 "2003-05-08T22:48:11Z")
wait a sec - you mean to tell me that I"ve been pitted more than **Izzy**??? (twice). I’m callin’ my rep! ---
**Author:** ![Mojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Mojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mojo)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-blog-spotter-extraordinaire-tireless-informer-on-sins-of-liberals-etc/173899/40 "2003-05-08T22:49:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by minty green \* > **So december gets picked on because he’s conservative, not because he does so many jerkish things? Interesting hypothesis.** I think the hypothesis is “ **december** gets picked on because he’s a conservative jerk” compared to some liberals who are bigger jerks, but who don’t get pitted with the same frequency/consistency. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-blog-spotter-extraordinaire-tireless-informer-on-sins-of-liberals-etc/173899.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-blog-spotter-extraordinaire-tireless-informer-on-sins-of-liberals-etc/173899.md?page=3)