# December: Blog Spotter Extraordinaire & Tireless Informer on Sins of Liberals, etc **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 8, 2003, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-blog-spotter-extraordinaire-tireless-informer-on-sins-of-liberals-etc/173899 "2003-05-08T14:33:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-blog-spotter-extraordinaire-tireless-informer-on-sins-of-liberals-etc/173899/161 "2003-05-09T19:33:26Z")
**Eva Luna** if you’re using Microsoft Internet Explorer, the pull-down menu called “View” then the option called “Toolbars” and then the option called “Address Bar”. If it is unchecked it would cause the address bar(which normally displays the URL currently being viewed) to disappear. Re-checking this option would bring it back. Hope this helps. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-blog-spotter-extraordinaire-tireless-informer-on-sins-of-liberals-etc/173899/162 "2003-05-09T19:47:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by IzzyR \* > \*\*You seem to think we are terrified at the thought of losing you. > > For some reason, the only time you seem to bring up your being Jewish is when are trying to bolster something negative you are saying about Jews or Judaism, (or something positive about Muslims or Islam). Like here. > > The term “self-hating Jew” is possibly overused, but it just might be applicable in your case. Convert, and then at least be quiet about it already. \*\* **Izzy,** I have no clue which specific posts of mine you have read that relate to Judaism, but you have me pegged wrong. I don’t know (or care, frankly) whether you personally are othered by the thought of the Jewish community “losing me.” However, I feel some clarifications are in order. Most of the people who identify themselves as observant Jews, even ones like my grandfather who have specifically told me they don’t believe in God, are still bothered by the idea of Jews ceasing to identify themselves as such, as a community, whether it’s a religious one or purely a cultural one. I have no clue where you stand on this issue, but it wouldn’t have been a crazy leap on my part to guess that you think that way, too. From previous interactions, I’d guess **december** feels that way, too. If I’m wrong, or if any other SDMB Jews care to state their opinion on this matter, please say so. Although I am agnostic (though if one is a person who believes in God, one probably believes God made me that way), I have great respect for Jewish culture and for my elders. I also want to see that culture, my culture, preserved, and do things on and off this board in furtherance of that ideal. I do volunteer translations for [www.jewishgen.org](http://www.jewishgen.org), among other things, and have done some work for my family geneology. In fact, as soon as I sign off in a few minutes, I’m going to start cooking a typically Central Asian Jewish dish - plov - for ChiDope later tonight. The recipe is from one of my several Jewish cookbooks, which I bought with my own hard-earned cash in an attempt to learn more about the various parts of teh Jewish culinary world. I highly reocoomend Claudia Roden’s _The Book of Jewish Food: A Culinary Oddyssey from Samarkand to New York._\* You did note, I hope, that I spent a significant part of my vacation in Paris wandering around the Marais, including a very depressing stint at the above-mentioned museum viewing photos of French Jews being shipped off to concentration camps? I believe I’ve also mentioned my very emotional visit to Babi Yar, outside Kiev, where 100,000 Jews were slaughtered and buried half-alive in a mass grave, and my indignation that the plaque at the site doesn’t even mention that they were Jewish, and that was the reason for their murder? I don’t know what threads you read, but I don’t think you’re getting a balanced picture. True, there are things about Judaism as it is currently practiced by various sectors of the community that bother me. There are things about Judaism that don’t make sense to me. The same is true about many other things: sometimes American foreign policy frustrates me, but that doesn’t mean I am a self-hating American. Some things about Christianity, or Islam for that matter, really turn me off. Plus there’s my sometimes bizarre obsession with intellectual and spiritual honesty, which is why I revel my background at relevant points (so readers can have some information about my possible biases), and why I will never convert to Islam (and for that matter, why I laughed when my Muslim ex-boyfriend asked me if I would. Not very diplomatic, but hey, at least it was even-handed.) If I don’t believe in something, then I have a big problem with going through the motions. My If you’re curious, do a search and you will see that my view of Judaism is rather more complex than you’re portraying here. Why do I sometimes say negative things about specific Jews or specific aspects of Jewish culture, and why do I say postive things about Islam and specific Muslims? It’s an attempt at balance, man. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-blog-spotter-extraordinaire-tireless-informer-on-sins-of-liberals-etc/173899/163 "2003-05-09T19:50:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mtgman \* > \*\ ***Eva Luna** if you’re using Microsoft Internet Explorer, the pull-down menu called “View” then the option called “Toolbars” and then the option called “Address Bar”. If it is unchecked it would cause the address bar(which normally displays the URL currently being viewed) to disappear. Re-checking this option would bring it back. > > Hope this helps. > > Enjoy, > Steven \*\* Thanks, but I’ve tried this a zillion times already; “Address Bar” is checked, but I still have no address bar. I’ve tried it the other way, too; no dice. Anyway, I’m getting a new computer as soon as I manage to drive to work and pick it up, so it won’t be a problem much longer. Thanks anyway. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-blog-spotter-extraordinaire-tireless-informer-on-sins-of-liberals-etc/173899/164 "2003-05-09T20:07:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by minty green \* > While the people who get annoyed with him–and that sometimes includes me–certainly have legitimate reasons for that annoyance, I think he’s a generally okay guy. He could be giving the lepers daily sponge baths for all I know, but it wouldn’t make a difference to me. As long as **december** continues to consume this board’s valuable hamster power with his typical thinly-veiled conservative-cheerleading trollish behavior (at least in _Great Debates,_ since his stuff is neither), he’s violating the board’s fundamental “don’t be a jerk” rule. ---
**Author:** ![IzzyR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-blog-spotter-extraordinaire-tireless-informer-on-sins-of-liberals-etc/173899/165 "2003-05-09T20:09:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eva Luna \* > I don’t know what threads you read, but I don’t think you’re getting a balanced picture. Based on what you describe here it would appear that I was wrong. Please accept my humble apologies. (It is also possible that your board persona does not reflect your real perspective. Though this may be, as you say, due to your attempt to provide balance, you may be coming off different than you actually are. In any event, my apologies again). ---
**Author:** ![istara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e79b87/32.png) [@istara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/istara)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-blog-spotter-extraordinaire-tireless-informer-on-sins-of-liberals-etc/173899/166 "2003-05-09T20:27:35Z")
**Eva** - if only there were more people like you visiting and associating with people in this part of the world - Jewish, American, and fair and open-minded. And if only there were more people like your running America, international relations might really get a chance to improve. ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-blog-spotter-extraordinaire-tireless-informer-on-sins-of-liberals-etc/173899/167 "2003-05-09T21:17:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by IzzyR \* > The same goes for claims that “the Jews” control the media in the US, made by many, including our very own London\_Calling. Judgement call - same conclusion, IMHO. Yes, of course “IMHO” - it’s the legal training, donchaknow … Well, splendid ! A slow afternoon at the good offices of ‘Drive-by, Smear and Brotherly Solidarlity.Inc’, **Izzy** – no point asking for a cite from my Learned Friend, I suppose ? Btw, there’s plenty of alternative pro-Israeli views and campaigns out there that aren’t as barking mad as the cabal on this board. Just stick something like _American + Jews + Peace_ into a search engine near you and you get stuff like: [**Refuser Solidarity Network**](http://www.refusersolidarity.net/) - actually, you get over 500,00 hits so those reading this needn’t think racists and race haters like **december** and his apologists (here) are anything like the majority voice (on issues relating to Israel) out there in the real world. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-blog-spotter-extraordinaire-tireless-informer-on-sins-of-liberals-etc/173899/168 "2003-05-09T21:25:09Z")
> [@](#): > > I can’t prove this, but it seems to me that the reason people like Perle and Wolfowitz are being portrayed in many quarters as the real powers in the administration, presumably pulling the strings on Bush, Cheney, Powell, Rumsfeld et al, is the fact that they are Jewish. I think it’s more the fact that the administration seems to be following their longtime suggestions, and buying into their ideology, very closely, having nothing to do with them being Jewish. Right or wrong, they represent one of the most vibrant schools of foriegn policy thought in conservative circles, and their ideas are getting their day in court. ---
**Author:** ![IzzyR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-blog-spotter-extraordinaire-tireless-informer-on-sins-of-liberals-etc/173899/169 "2003-05-09T21:30:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by London\_Calling \* > Well, splendid ! A slow afternoon at the good offices of ‘Drive-by, Smear and Brotherly Solidarlity.Inc’, **Izzy** – no point asking for a cite from my Learned Friend, I suppose ? [Here’s](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=3086908#post3086908) one example. I recall that you’ve argued this point elsewhere too. Note: I shall be in my office another half hour, about - afterwards I will be offline until Monday. If there is any exchange over the weekend I’m not ignoring anyone. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-blog-spotter-extraordinaire-tireless-informer-on-sins-of-liberals-etc/173899/170 "2003-05-09T21:34:41Z")
IzzyR, I agree with you facts are facts and statements about facts are either true or not true. My point was that, having read quite a few posts by december, I believe “If someone says the government of the USA is too favorable to Israel then that is racism but if you say the EU is too favorable to the Palestinians then that is not racism but just a statement of fact.” is an accurate reflection of his position and I think that position is very slanted to one side. ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-blog-spotter-extraordinaire-tireless-informer-on-sins-of-liberals-etc/173899/171 "2003-05-09T21:39:18Z")
I thought that was a rather helpful exchange, M’lord, the conclusion of which(between you and I) was: > [@](#): > > ## Originally posted by London\_Calling Genuinely interested. I’m not entirely convinced we’d agree on very much (about domestic influences on US policy towards Israel) but a closed mind isn’t a good thing and I’m always interested in intelligent perspectives. Never mind, next time, maybe. > > IzzyR - I’m sorry, but I don’t have much substantive to add to the many intelligent posts on the subject that have already been made. > > FWIW, I think you would have to be naive to think that Jewish political influence is not at all a factor in US foreign policy towards the Middle East (as with Arab influence in Europe). Still, it is one factor among many, and is in any event not nearly as strong as you presented it. > > OTOH, the Jewish control of the media thing is not a factor at all. At most a tiny, tiny one. Seemed reasonably civil to me. What’s the story ? Let me see if I can find the cite where (even) **december** concedes ownership of such as the NYT and Wash Post … have a super, drive-by smearing weekend … ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-blog-spotter-extraordinaire-tireless-informer-on-sins-of-liberals-etc/173899/172 "2003-05-09T22:06:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by London\_Calling \* > Let me see if I can find the cite where (even) **december** concedes ownership of such as the NYT and Wash Post. I subscribe to the New York Times. Its editorial policy on Israel is quite anti-Sharon, anti-Likud, and dovish. Your assumption that all Jews think alike is a stereotype. Stereotyping is a sign of bigotry. Another sign of bigotry is exaggerating the influence of a few people. [Jews are only 2% of the US population](http://www.cjnews.com/pastissues/02/oct17-02/international/int3.htm). The overwhelming majority of Americans with power in the media are not Jewish. A third sign of bigotry is assuming that influence exerted by some group will automatically be malign. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-blog-spotter-extraordinaire-tireless-informer-on-sins-of-liberals-etc/173899/173 "2003-05-09T22:16:11Z")
Quick question for you **december**. Are you, or are you not, accusing **London\_Calling** of bigotry(specifically anti-semitism)? A yes or no answer would be faboo, thanks. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-blog-spotter-extraordinaire-tireless-informer-on-sins-of-liberals-etc/173899/174 "2003-05-09T22:29:43Z")
yes ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-blog-spotter-extraordinaire-tireless-informer-on-sins-of-liberals-etc/173899/175 "2003-05-09T22:32:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by London\_Calling \* > **Well, splendid ! A slow afternoon at the good offices of ‘Drive-by, Smear and Brotherly Solidarlity.Inc’, Izzy – no point asking for a cite from my Learned Friend, I suppose ?** Let’s not forget [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?&threadid=153221), which shows just how long you’ve been spewing this bigotry. Which persists in this thread: \*\* > [@](#): > > Let me see if I can find the cite where (even) december concedes ownership of such as the NYT and Wash Post\*\* Just how many times has it been pointed out to you that having Jews involved in ownership or management roles in the media does **NOT** equate to “Jewish control of the media”? One would have to, you know, actually provide “cites” to show that Jewish owners or editors are manipulating the news out of some sense of religious solidarity. You’ve ducked and dodged on this one ever since I challenged you on it, and all you can do is parade around on your cross crying “Smear!” and “McCarthyism!”, while ignoring what you know full well: the smear of “Jewish media control” is the stock in trade of tinfoil-hatted anti-Semitic bigots everywhere, and by parroting it continually, you’ve put yourself into their company. In language that you’ll no doubt appreciate in your martyr role: at long last, what in hell is your problem? \*\* > [@](#): > > Btw, there’s plenty of alternative pro-Israeli views and campaigns out there that aren’t as barking mad as the _cabal_ on this board.\*\* Could it be…uncontrolled paranoia? (The cabal’s gonna getcha if ya don’t…watch…out). Obviously I have not been defending **december** in this thread. Some of his comments from time to time about Arabs have seemed bigoted to me, and I’ve said so. But **you** have no right whatsoever to rail at him for being racist. And by the way, if you’re going to define him as racist because he’s more wrapped up in the fate of his ethnic group than of Muslims, you might as well damn an overwhelming majority of the populations of both the Palestinian Territory and Israel, who feel the same way, up to and including the new Palestinian Prime Minister, who wrote a book explaining that the Jewish Holocaust was an “illusion”. These people have problems, sure. But they at least tend to be more open about their predilections than a sniggering, cowardly shit like you. Have a wonderful weekend. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-blog-spotter-extraordinaire-tireless-informer-on-sins-of-liberals-etc/173899/176 "2003-05-09T22:42:41Z")
**Eva** -re \*\*december’s \*\* cites - no need to think “well if all the world thinks that, where were the cites last time”, since they seem to be all from the same organziation (‘messiah’ something or nother). This of course does not necessarily mean that the info contained is false, but it does suggest that additional evidence is demonstrated (for example, we would suspect that an organization created as support for those wrongfully convicted would have more interest and perhaps more data re: wrongful convictions, however, before we accept their assesment of the scope of the issue, we should look at other sources confirming some/most of the data expressed). **Izzy** re: **Ace** - I don’t believe that his banning had anything specifically to do w/ **Joe\_Cool’s** conservative bent, but rather both of their tempers, both (especially **Joe** ) when he felt angry, or that his wife had been insulted/attacked, would come out w/both barrels blazing on a personal basis, beyond what’s normally allowed, even in the pit. So while I don’t think that \*\*Ace’s \*\* banning can be used to support the thesis that liberals do/don’t get a pass re: banning/behavior by the admins/mods, neither do I think it can be used as an example of ‘see, it’s conservatives or those who support them who get banned’ either. That set of bannings reminded me more of **Satan** ’s banning (which was also, AFAIC, unrelated to his political leaning). but bottom line, I think you’re correct that any potential analysis of bannings is futile since there’s a potential for so many factors. I still remain unconvinced, tho’ that any of the bannings really have much to do w/the political leaning of the banned, vs. their specific actions on the board. RE: pittings - I’m really getting to the place where I think the major factor is the specific “did they start the thread” as being the most likely common denominator, which would go a long way towards explaining the number of **december/Wildest BIll** threads. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-blog-spotter-extraordinaire-tireless-informer-on-sins-of-liberals-etc/173899/177 "2003-05-09T22:47:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > \*\*yes \*\* Thanks for the clarification. Always nice to have a straight answer on these types of things. Have a nice weekend! Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-blog-spotter-extraordinaire-tireless-informer-on-sins-of-liberals-etc/173899/178 "2003-05-09T22:51:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wring \* > **Eva** -re \*\*december’s \*\* cites - no need to think “well if all the world thinks that, where were the cites last time”, since they seem to be all from the same organziation (‘messiah’ something or nother). This of course does not necessarily mean that the info contained is false… Uh, **wring** , the cites may “seem” to you to be from the same organization, but they’re not. E.g, the last one is from CNN. I request that you do some research of your own on this question. It’s not hard. You could go into a search engine and find out for yourself how many sources report a wave of antisemitic attacks in France. I thought four cites were enough. If you want more, you can easily find them. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-blog-spotter-extraordinaire-tireless-informer-on-sins-of-liberals-etc/173899/179 "2003-05-09T22:55:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jackmannii \* > **Let’s not forget [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?&threadid=153221), which shows just how long you’ve been spewing this bigotry. Which persists in this thread:** Please explain what you think this link shows. ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-blog-spotter-extraordinaire-tireless-informer-on-sins-of-liberals-etc/173899/180 "2003-05-09T22:58:30Z")
Yay !, come join the loony racist pile on ! - I used to think of \*\* december\*\* and the now spooky **Jackmannii** as ‘The Odd Couple’ (december was the Tony Randall character). But then Jackmannii got spooky and december boring. Rust never sleeps, shame really. Nice theme tune, though. Where were we ? Ah yes, a thread about **december** in which he tries to turn it onto A.Nother poster. Tut, tut, another predictable ploy … > [@](#): > > _originally posted by the racist and race-hating liar december_ > Stereotyping is a sign of bigotry. Err, yeah sure. Yet in my post four posts up (from this comment by you) I said: > [@](#): > > Btw, there’s plenty of alternative pro-Israeli views and campaigns out there that aren’t as barking mad as the cabal on this board. Just stick something like American + Jews + Peace into a search engine near you and you get stuff like: > > Refuser Solidarity Network > > - actually, you get over 500,00 hits so those reading this needn’t think racists and race haters like december and his apologists (here) are anything like the majority voice (on issues relating to Israel) out there in the real world. - Just don’t know what else to say. I thought I was pointing out to those reading that you don’t represent the majority view btw, Jackmanni, you’re a little too weird for me. All that pseudo, creepy ‘reasonable man’ type posting and comments like “I’m taking names” stuff. Spooky man. There seems to be something of the night about you. Thanks for leaping in for the loony pile on, though - Jack Klugman, that was the name I couldn’t remeber ! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-blog-spotter-extraordinaire-tireless-informer-on-sins-of-liberals-etc/173899.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-blog-spotter-extraordinaire-tireless-informer-on-sins-of-liberals-etc/173899.md?page=10)