# december, please, just SHUT UP! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 11, 2002, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-please-just-shut-up/131779 "2002-10-11T05:00:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-please-just-shut-up/131779/21 "2002-10-11T10:53:46Z")
šŸ˜ƒ My bad. I deserved that. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-please-just-shut-up/131779/22 "2002-10-11T10:57:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Airman Doors, USAF \* > \*\ ***Twisty** , be careful. You might offend him. šŸ˜‰ > > Incidentally, Iā€™m not nearly as conservative as he is, but Iā€™m still Anti-Clinton, Anti-Kyoto, Anti-Liberal, Anti-Democrat, and for the most part Anti-UN. Iā€™m not Anti-Palestinian, but very Pro-Israel, if you get the distinction. There are rational reasons for people to feel that way, so if you would, please watch how broadly you sweep that brush. > > However, I think that Ann Coulter is a nutjob. Who doesnā€™t? \*\* Iā€™m not painting anyone with a brush. I actually refuse to acknowledge december as a conservative, as he soils the word. I know there are rational reasons to be anti- (insert political situation here), but the difference between having an opinion and having an agenda is very different. If you wanted to start a thread about something, I would assume that you have information and links to back your point up. december seems to pick random articles and read his own political bent onto them and come to the conclusion that they prove his point and cannot be wrong. Big, Big difference. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-please-just-shut-up/131779/23 "2002-10-11T12:16:44Z")
**december** isnā€™t so much a conservative as heā€™s a nutjob who happens to hold views on the conservative side of the spectrum. This board is certainly not alien to the concept, at least, of an anti- **december** of sorts ā€¦ someone who, when combined with december, would produce an explosion the net result of which would be ā€¦ nothing. No **december** , no **anti-december**. Hmmā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![divemaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/divemaster/32/78_2.png) [@divemaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/divemaster)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-please-just-shut-up/131779/24 "2002-10-11T12:18:56Z")
I get more enjoyment reading **decemberā€™s** threads than most others. Watching many of you guys piss and moan and start foaming at the mouth, and him plodding methodically along is often better than a movie. Plus, I think he makes a lot of good points. december: ā€œwell, I read this article; hereā€™s a [biased] summary; what do you guys think?ā€ reactionary poster 1 (say, **Collounsbury** , for instance): ā€œdecemberā€™s stupidā€¦fucking twitā€¦ignorantā€¦ā€ but then he at least tries to present a counter debate reactionary poster 2: (say, **Guinastasia** for instance): "Oh, no; not december againā€¦Hereā€™s my contribution to the debate: :rolleyes: Ironically, in the threads Iā€™ve read, heā€™s usually the most polite poster in the debate. If you disagree, debate him without the personal insults. Or ignore him. It canā€™t be _that_ hard, can it? ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-please-just-shut-up/131779/25 "2002-10-11T12:30:09Z")
**december** ā€™s acknowledged deception in the Clinton gifts thread is beyond the pale of civilized debate, **dm**. He pulls that shit on a fairly frequent basis. The hostility and frustration are entirely appropriate reactions to his behavior. ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-please-just-shut-up/131779/26 "2002-10-11T12:56:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Stinkpalm \* > \*\*I donā€™t even know december, but this guy has a new pit thread every week. Why donā€™t you guys leave him alone? \*\* So you donā€™t know anything, but feel the need to opine regardless? šŸ˜• ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-please-just-shut-up/131779/27 "2002-10-11T13:04:17Z")
**december** is an idiot. Not because of his ā€œviewsā€, rather in how he expresses them and conducts himself on the boards. He richly deserves each Pitting, and sadly I think he is starting to enjoy the attention. But I am not sure he has risen to the level of a banning. Although I wouldnā€™t miss him if he was gone. The conservative view point has plenty of credible, well-spoken supporters here that probably cringe everytime that doofus posts. If your a moderate, you should want **december** to stay around, has he works hard to make conservatives look like tin-foil hatted nitwits. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-please-just-shut-up/131779/28 "2002-10-11T13:07:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by minty green \* > \*\ ***december** ā€™s acknowledged deception in the Clinton gifts thread is beyond the pale of civilized debateā€¦ \*\* **minty** , please take another look at that other thread. As a lawyer, you are ideally qualified to analyze the legal validity (or lack thereof) of the offered excuse. In particular, can you point us to the laws in question? However, I concede that the OP ought to have addressed the suficiency or insuffciency of the Clinton excuse in the OP. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-please-just-shut-up/131779/29 "2002-10-11T13:31:08Z")
> [@](#): > > I donā€™t even know december, but this guy has a new pit thread every week. Why donā€™t you guys leave him alone? People probably would, if he didnā€™t insist on repeatedly launching threads containing false or misleading information in GD. By now, if I see a new thread in GD with a question in the subject line and **decemberā€™s** name attached, I pretty much know itā€™s going to contain useless information, and it appears that many of the regulars here agree. Typical pattern for a **december** GD thread: Subject: **Is it OK for Palestinians and Democrats to barbeque live kittens?** Selective quote from media article implying that Palestinians and Democrats do in fact barbeque live kittens, followed by statement from OP claiming that if the article concerned Israelis and Republicans, the liberal outcry would be deafening First reply notes that poster followed link provided and discovers that rather than claiming that Palestinians and Democrats barbeque live kittens, article states that someone may have heard a kitten mewing somewhere and intends to launch an investigation Five or more additional replies expressing displeasure with OPā€™s wasting of their time, noting that this is the 376th iteration of basically the same thread by the OP OP steps back in to say that he never claimed that live kittens really were being barbequed, simply that this sort of behavior fits a pattern long known among Palestinians and Democrats, that itā€™s not his responsibility because he is simply posting a news item for the benefit of the board, that once again the mean old liberals are simply bashing him for sport, and by the way, even if no live kittens have been barbequed, hereā€™s a link to another article that proves conclusively that the Clintons failed to report a cheese tray that they received as a gift in 1992, and thatā€™s really the pretty much the same thing, isnā€™t it? Collective groan from those posters who can still be bothered to open a **december** thread ā€¦ What I donā€™t understand is why he persists in posting these kinds of things to GD when his claims are almost always immediately and comprehensively shown to be false, _often by following the links he himself provides_, and when he has apparently been warned repeatedly about this by the mods. Heā€™s definitely got a martyr complex, and thus itā€™s obvious that heā€™ll keep pushing board rules until he gets himself banned, in an effort to demonstrate how unfair this hotbed of liberalism is to dissenting voices. I just wish heā€™d hurry up and get on with it. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-please-just-shut-up/131779/30 "2002-10-11T13:34:32Z")
ā€”Apos, you should get your blow jobs from James Carville.ā€” Sure, but then I wouldnā€™t need a penny for every time someoneā€™s said ā€œWow, am I actually agreeing with december on this one?ā€ Iā€™m not THAT impoverisedā€¦šŸ™‚ Anyway, that was a terrible, terrible methaphor. What I meant to emphasize is: it seems like even those that hate dec the most still seem to agree with him, even surprising themselves that they do, from time to time. So he canā€™t be ALL baitingā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-please-just-shut-up/131779/31 "2002-10-11T13:35:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Klaatu \* > \*\*I could drag up some quotes from a couple of the above posters that would make december look like a fucking choir boy. > > \*\* Go ahead. Iā€™d love to see these quotes. ---
**Author:** ![Legomancer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/779978/32.png) [@Legomancer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Legomancer)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-please-just-shut-up/131779/32 "2002-10-11T13:50:13Z")
I think itā€™s hilarious that people like this are STILL burned up on Clinton. My god, what a piece of work that man must be to have imprinted himself that deeply on them. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-please-just-shut-up/131779/33 "2002-10-11T14:11:41Z")
Well, since I was mentioned: > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by divemaster \* > I get more enjoyment reading **decemberā€™s** threads than most others. Watching many of you guys piss and moan and start foaming at the mouth, and him plodding methodically along is often better than a movie. Plus, I think he makes a lot of good points. No, he makes few if any good points - he makes a large number of **assertions** that generally fall apart when one looks at the underlying data/article etc. > [@](#): > > december: ā€œwell, I read this article; hereā€™s a [biased] summary; what do you guys think?ā€ And there is the key. December actively misrepresents data, lies about what articles say etc. His summaries go beyond ā€˜biasedā€™ to active and clear misrepresentation. And he has done this frequently. Now, if you are drooling moron, an idiot or a gullible fool, you may buy his backpeddling, his game of ā€œI really meant thisā€ but enough repititions, enough times being caught excising damning paragraphs etc. Of course, again, for the morons, the idiots, the gullible ideological fools and for those simply unacquainted with logical argumentation and analysis, this may not be terribly noticeable. Now, reading the train wrecks for the pure amusement value, I can understand that. > [@](#): > > reactionary poster 1 (say, **Collounsbury** , for instance): ā€œdecemberā€™s stupidā€¦fucking twitā€¦ignorantā€¦ā€ but then he at least tries to present a counter debate My reaction is an accurate representation. [quote] Ironically, in the threads Iā€™ve read, heā€™s usually the most polite poster in the debate. [/quyote] And? He distorts, lies and otherwise engages in highly ā€œunpoliteā€ misrepresentation of sources. I personally could care less about his ostensible politeness, what I care about is honesty in regards to the sources etc. In my book that is fundamentally more important and ultimately more respectful of the forum. > [@](#): > > If you disagree, debate him without the personal insults. Or ignore him. It canā€™t be _that_ hard, can it? \*\* There seems to be something that you do not quite grasp, although this is unsurprising if you have somehow through some tortured and belabored grinding of gears have come to think that december frequently makes good points, that **debate** requires **honest** engagement with the facts - good or bad for oneā€™s point - and at the very least \*\* a lack of lying \*\* in regards to characterizing oneā€™s sources. When someone has demonstrated they are unable or unwilling to do so, **their behaviour** becomes relevant. The ad hominem is a logical fallacy when it is **irrelevant** to the debate, it is indeed relevant to the argument when the **arguer** ā€™s character does indeed bear on the argument, on the degree to which one can trust the arguerā€™s representation of sources, facts, engagement with the argument in grosso modo. December is not **debating** in any real sense of the term, it has been demonstrated rather frequently, for those who care to engage their grey matter and ponder this. ---
**Author:** ![Mojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Mojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mojo)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-please-just-shut-up/131779/34 "2002-10-11T14:25:02Z")
It seems to me that the majority of his recent GD threads are really Pit rants where he doesnā€™t want someone to be able to (deservedly) curse at him. Was ā€œAre homophobic ads OK if theyā€™re run by Democrats?ā€ even a _minor_ debate? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-please-just-shut-up/131779/35 "2002-10-11T14:29:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > \*\* > Thatā€™s right. Apos, you should get your blow jobs from James Carville. \*\* Please! Like Carville would ever stop talking long enough to give anyone a blow job. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ace_of_Swords)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-please-just-shut-up/131779/36 "2002-10-11T15:01:04Z")
**Guin** , I vote we just keep dredging up the old ā€œDecember is a big fat idiotā€ thread whenever fresh material arrives. That way the moron could leave a permanent legacy. And if youā€™re worried about anyone listening to his claptrap, you could point him to the Moron Memorial. ---
**Author:** ![anya\_marie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ebca7d/32.png) [@anya\_marie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anya_marie)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-please-just-shut-up/131779/37 "2002-10-11T15:02:09Z")
Are you trying to give me nightmares? ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-please-just-shut-up/131779/38 "2002-10-11T16:52:57Z")
I would like to see him either get a clue and stop this behavior or be banned. Given his history, Iā€™m saying banning would be easier. As a person who would rather see ignorance dispelled with knowledge, Iā€™d personally rather see him get a clue. Sadly he seems remarkably reluctant to actually learn anything or re-examine his own behavior. The wisest thing he could do is simply stop posting, or stop posting OPs at least, for a while and just read. Many of the posts and debate styles in GD use proper styles and support their positions with facts, not opinion pieces. The assertions are supposed to be provided by the posters, and then we all examine the facts and see if itā€™s a valid assertion. Coming to a debate with an agenda and a series of biased sources to cite would get you laughed/thrown off the stage in real life. Iā€™ve seen it done. Yet on the Internet weā€™re pretty much a captive audience. I canā€™t load up GD without seeing **decemberā€™s** drek. I canā€™t read a thread heā€™s posted in without seeing his posts. So I, and many others, end up wasting our time dispelling the ignorance he spews so prolifically. If we were making headway towards getting **december** to honestly debate real issues I wouldnā€™t be writing this. His continued trolling of GD with partisan, slanted, half-cocked OPs is the real problem. The fight against ignorance is too important to waste time with the willfully ignorant. Weā€™ve got plenty of people out there who could be getting actual knowledge from this board. Instead theyā€™re reading more diatribes of right-versus-left politics which is nothing more than mental masturbation. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-please-just-shut-up/131779/39 "2002-10-11T18:33:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by divemaster \* > Watching many of you guys piss and moan and start foaming at the mouth, and him plodding methodically along is often better than a movie. Jack Dean Tyler was not dissimilar to **december** , and he got old after about a week. So happy we can amuse you, thoughā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-please-just-shut-up/131779/40 "2002-10-11T18:58:50Z")
> [@](#): > > The words ā€œblowjobā€ and ā€œTrent Lottā€ should NEVER, EVER be used in the same sentence. How 'bout Edwin Meese III? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-please-just-shut-up/131779.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-please-just-shut-up/131779.md?page=3)