# december, please, just SHUT UP! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 11, 2002, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-please-just-shut-up/131779 "2002-10-11T05:00:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2002, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-please-just-shut-up/131779/61 "2002-10-14T03:37:49Z")
> [@](#): > > Over the years, Republicans and conservative have taken the position that Democrats and liberals not only support bad policies, but that they are bad people. In other words, 'Pubbies and conservatives often claim to be morally superior. Can’t argue with that. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2002, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-please-just-shut-up/131779/62 "2002-10-14T03:49:11Z")
Now that may be the best explanation I’ve seen from you, **december**. Let’s try to work from that premise. If **december** knocks off his bizarro posts, can he expect reciprocal actions by Democrat posters, i.e. **Ace** most especially? That sounds reasonable to me. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2002, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-please-just-shut-up/131779/63 "2002-10-14T03:53:23Z")
Thanks for being a prick there, **minty**. Way to contribute. He actually says what he means and you rip him some more. Well done. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2002, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-please-just-shut-up/131779/64 "2002-10-14T03:56:41Z")
It’s equally stupid either way, Airman. What’s your complaint? ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2002, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-please-just-shut-up/131779/65 "2002-10-14T04:01:11Z")
MY complaint is simple. He makes my political outlook look bad, which embarasses me, and you say stuff like that to encourages him to continue. When you say stuff like that, egging him on, you just make yourself look like a little child saying “I know you are but what am I?” From a person of your education, intelligence, and stature, I would expect better. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2002, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-please-just-shut-up/131779/66 "2002-10-14T04:10:13Z")
I did not intent to encourage him to continue; I intended to demonstrate the equivalence of his position. Thanks for the backhanded compliment, though. Stature? My team of sculptors are working on it even as we speak. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2002, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-please-just-shut-up/131779/67 "2002-10-14T04:22:16Z")
> [@](#): > > He actually says what he means and you rip him some more. Of course he said what he means. And it’s more of the same crap. **minty** merely emphacized the absurdity of december’s post. **december** didn’t imply nor mean that he was gonna quit posting drivel. Nor did he imply nor suggest that he would change his tactics or posting style. He continued his patented whine. **Airman**. You have no reason to be embarassed by **december** and his posts. You wouldn’t start posts with deliberate lies. He represents only himself in his posts. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2002, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-please-just-shut-up/131779/68 "2002-10-14T17:00:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > \*\*Newbies should also be warned that if you criticize Democrats and liberals, some posters will start Pit threads, calling you dishonest, insane and idiotic, and recommending that you be banned. \*\* Yet another example of your dishonesty. You accuse the SDMB of being hostile to one political ideology and protective of another. This is patently false. The only thing the SDMB is hostile towards is willful ignorance and closed minds. The only thing it is protective of is open communication and free exchange of knowledge. If your political ideologies lead you into the state of having a closed mind or willful ignorance, then then you have a personal problem. This is not indicative of a problem with the SDMB. An accurate summation for the newbies should read. “Newbies should also be warned that if you **falsely** criticize ANYONE, some posters will start Pit threads calling you dishonest. If you continually do it, they will call you insane and idiotic and recommend that you be banned.” I’d have no problem with this being part of a newbie FAQ. It’s simply true. YOUR problem, **december** is that it happened to YOU because YOU falsely critized someone(in this case a Democrat) and YOU did it OVER AND OVER(as with the “liberals are more interested in seeing lawyers get fat checks than seeing justice done” crack and countless others). You have EARNED your pit threads. I also maintain that YOU, as an individual, not as a right-winger, not as a conservative, not as a any other label, but as a poster with your history. You have earned banning. No hidden prejudices are working against you here except your own. You make a point, someone makes a counterpoint and you instantly label them as a “liberal” or “bleeding-heart” and treat them as the worst representative of YOUR OWN PRE-CONCEIVED IDEA of a “liberal” or “bleeding-heart.” THIS IS WHAT **EARNS** YOU ANIMOSITY. Your stalwart refusal to treat people as people instead of dimensionless representatives of stereotypes has dug your grave here. You’ve been a jerk without any need for help from any of us. This conversation fragment really sums it up. From [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=137740) > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > [Subject] **Lawsuits are undermining obstetrical care** [/SUBJECT] > \*\*My wife in on the faculty of UMDNJ Newark campus. This is both a medical school and a big hospital. It’s a key medical care provider for the poor in the inner city. > > Just a few years ago, this campus stopped offering obstetrical services. Presumably, suits like this one made it unaffordable for them I have read that obstetrical care is being cut back nationwide. Whatever the legal logic, these suits are harming society. Their cost is simply unaffordable. \*\* To which **minty green** replied. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by minty green \* > \*\*“Presumably”? Does that mean "I will now assume my conclusion that . . . "? \*\* Here is where **december** goes off the deep end. **minty** was making a point of order, effectively saying, You don’t have proof that the UMDNJ ceased obstetrical care because of excessive lawsuits for obstetrical malpractice. To which **december** replied > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > [SUBJECT] **Why do liberals put the well-being of lawyers more than poor people?** [/SUBJECT] > \*\*It means I haven’t checked the actual budget figures. I know that the decision was made on financial grounds. UMDNJ is quite strapped for cash. > > Apparently, liberals conisider it more important for a plaintiff’s attorney to receive a million dollar fee, than for poor people to get necessary medical care.\*\* **december** had NO facts about the case. He simply slung partisan slurs against his opponents. Any time a request for facts is met with this kind of response, the fight against ignorance has just lost ground. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2002, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-please-just-shut-up/131779/69 "2002-10-14T17:31:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mtgman \*An accurate summation for the newbies should read. "Newbies should also be warned that if you **falsely** criticize ANYONE, some posters will start Pit threads calling you dishonest. **Mtgman** – this statement can be easily disproved. **Stoid** made two false criticisms of me about 10 posts back right here on this thread. I see no Pit thread on her. > [@](#): > > as with the “liberals are more interested in seeing lawyers get fat checks than seeing justice done” crack and countless others. You have EARNED your pit threads. I admit that my crack was somewhat nasty, although it had a serious point: Democrats are supported by the plaintiff attorney lobby, and Democrats tend to favor the wishes of this bloc. (Just as Republicans are supported by big business and tend to represent their interests.) > [@](#): > > This conversation fragment really sums it up… **december** had NO facts about the case. Actually, **Mtgman** , you yourself _presented three facts which I had provided_:[ol][_]UMDNJ paid a big amount to settle an Obstetrics lawsuit. [_]the decision [to stop providing obstetrical care] was made on financial grounds.UMDNJ is quite strapped for cash.[/ol] A conclusion that lawsuits and the threat of lawsuits played a major role in UMDNJ’s ending of OB service looks pretty obvious. Even if that conclusion were wrong, should it be grounds for banning? ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2002, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-please-just-shut-up/131779/70 "2002-10-14T17:54:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > \*\*Newbies should also be warned that if you criticize Democrats and liberals, some posters will start Pit threads, calling you dishonest, insane and idiotic, and recommending that you be banned. \*\* **december** you are as dumb as a stump if you think anybody believes that tired old crap you keep trying to foist. People pit you for your behavior and unsupported posts, not the fact you are a conservative. Heck, moderates **like** the fact you are a conservative- you personally do more to discredit the right wing’s message then anything we could do. Keep up the good work genius!! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2002, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-please-just-shut-up/131779/71 "2002-10-14T18:02:51Z")
> [@](#): > > UMDNJ paid a big amount to settle an Obstetrics lawsuit. > the decision [to stop providing obstetrical care] was made on financial grounds. > UMDNJ is quite strapped for cash. those three pieces of data support the conclusion that "the decision to stop providing obstetrical care **may have** been **influenced in part** by lawsuits, along with a number of other unspecified reasons, but it does not support the conclusion that the lawsuits **caused** the decision. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2002, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-please-just-shut-up/131779/72 "2002-10-14T18:17:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elf6c \* > \*\* > > **december** you are as dumb as a stump if you think anybody believes that tired old crap you keep trying to foist. People pit you for your behavior and unsupported posts, not the fact you are a conservative…\*\* And he even gave you cites, but fuck the facts, eh? The liberals (leftists, whatever) here, see a Pitting as par for the course when dealing with tough anti-dem/lib issues. Much easier to come here and cry about Decemeber then actually put a counter-argument forward. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2002, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-please-just-shut-up/131779/73 "2002-10-14T18:25:36Z")
hey **Brutus** did ya miss seeing that his conclusions aren’t supported by the cites? yep, thought so. ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2002, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-please-just-shut-up/131779/74 "2002-10-14T18:44:26Z")
**december** I expect this “logic” from, but “et tu Brutus?” **wring** - exactly. Some of the most prominent and well respected posters are conservatives. Are they getting Pitted constantly? No. Of course the truth is often inconvienent-- that’s why its easier to post whiny complaints about “those damn liberals attacking me for my views” and run away rather then post well supported cogent arguments in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2002, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-please-just-shut-up/131779/75 "2002-10-14T18:49:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > **Mtgman – this statement can be easily disproved. Stoid made two false criticisms of me about 10 posts back right here on this thread. I see no Pit thread on her.** True, I apologize. The statement should read “Newbies should also be warned that if you falsely criticize any group of people, some posters **may** start Pit threads calling you dishonest.” To be fair, you made the same mistake. One does not ALWAYS cause the other. \*\* [QUOTE] Actually, Mtgman, you yourself _presented three facts which I had provided_:[ol][li]UMDNJ paid a big amount to settle an Obstetrics lawsuit. [_]the decision [to stop providing obstetrical care] was made on financial grounds.[_]UMDNJ is quite strapped for cash.[/ol] A conclusion that lawsuits and the threat of lawsuits played a major role in UMDNJ’s ending of OB service looks pretty obvious. Even if that conclusion were wrong, should it be grounds for banning? \*\*[/li][/QUOTE] This summary is an example of why you deserve banning. Here’s what you left out when you summarized.[list=1] [li]You never provided evidence for fact #1 on your list. You did not give specific info on a claim the UMDNJ had settled in an obstetrics suit. The decision to cease obstetrical care could have been a pre-emptive thing from their standpoint done to reduce the chance of future liability and/or lower malpractice insurance costs. [/li][li]You confused the defendent in the case of the OP(see the thread if you’re interested) with the case of the UMDNJ. When I said you had no facts about the case, I was referring to the case in the OP, not the situation with UMDNJ. This mischaracterization on your part could lead people to believe you brought evidence relevant to the debate and it was dismissed improperly. This is not true. The evidence you brought was for ANOTHER case and you tried to cloud the issue of if the situation in the OP was a good case or not with issues describing a different scenario with some similarities.[/li][li]No information was given as to the compensation of the legal representatives of either side in the suit. This did not stop you from claiming the “liberals” were happy because the attorney had received a large fee. For all you know the attorney was working _pro bono_ and never got a penny. You also seem to have invented the joyous reaction of the “liberals” as I don’t recall any dancing in the streets at the settlement of the case cited in the OP. Several people weighed in to say they thought a case with merit had been resolved in a way which would benefit the plaintiff(read: victim, in case you haven’t read the thread). No mention was made of their great relief that the attorney had gotten his fee.[/li][/list=1] You have misrepresented the situation in the other thread in your summary here. You continually misrepresent situations. THAT is why I think you deserve to be banned. I will, however, repeat that I would rather see you reformed than removed. That ball is in your court. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2002, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-please-just-shut-up/131779/76 "2002-10-14T19:12:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > \*\ ***Mtgman** – this statement can be easily disproved. **Stoid** made two false criticisms of me about 10 posts back right here on this thread. \*\* Bullpucky. Here is what I said: > [@](#): > > \*\* > You start threads to criticize imaginary Democratic homophobia\*\* I have never seen evidence of any “Democratic homophobia” anywhere. In your other thread, you tried to make the case for it, I think you failed. No “falseness” anywhere. I think it far more false of you to try and paint all Democrats with the brush of one ad! > [@](#): > > \*\* and whine about anything you can think of having to do with Bill Clinton, even if it’s old news. > \*\* To which you respond that it was reported recently. So? It’s still OLD news, no matter when it was reported, and you are still whining about it. Unless it has current repircussions, if someone told me Reagan did something skanky back in 87, I wouldn’t be starting threads to whine about it. ---
**Author:** ![Starbury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f04885/32.png) [@Starbury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starbury)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2002, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-please-just-shut-up/131779/77 "2002-10-14T19:23:10Z")
In my reading of the “OUTRAGEous” lawsuit thread, I saw **Mtgman** add a personal attack in one of his posts, calling **december** a troll (something **Ed** has told us not to do several times, right?). On the other hand, while **december** used some pretty broad generalisations, I didn’t see him resort to making personal attacks against any SDMB members in that thread. At worst, december was guilty of being obstinate. I don’t think that thread makes a good case for banning **december**. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2002, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-please-just-shut-up/131779/78 "2002-10-14T20:13:10Z")
**Starbury** you make a common mistake. the fact that **december** will not use the word ‘fuck’ or use specifically insulting language in reference to a specific poster, doesn’t mean that he’s not being deliberatly insulting. As a matter of fact, he’s admitted to behavior that is commonly called ‘trolling’ (ie specifically wording his OP’s with the design to elicit outraged reactions), admitting that he doesn’t have substantiation for the outrageousness that he posts. it’s offensive, he’s been called on it, and he continued here w/blatent specific lies (‘only conservative posters get pitted’ - which is absolute bullshit. do a search on pit threads w/Ace -O-Spades for example, or Stoid, during the elections). ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2002, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-please-just-shut-up/131779/79 "2002-10-14T20:29:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wring \* > **… As a matter of fact, he’s admitted to behavior that is commonly called ‘trolling’ (ie specifically wording his OP’s with the design to elicit outraged reactions), admitting that he doesn’t have substantiation for the outrageousness that he posts…** Cite? ---
**Author:** ![IzzyR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2002, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-please-just-shut-up/131779/80 "2002-10-14T20:34:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wring \* > it’s offensive, he’s been called on it, and he continued here w/blatent specific lies (‘only conservative posters get pitted’ - which is absolute bullshit. do a search on pit threads w/Ace -O-Spades for example, or Stoid, during the elections). Can you direct me to where december has stated that “only conservative posters get pitted”? It would seem to me that your assertion is a “blatent lie”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-please-just-shut-up/131779.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-please-just-shut-up/131779.md?page=5)