# december: Why? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 19, 2003, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-why/149690 "2003-01-19T22:12:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![nogginhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5e9695/32.png) [@nogginhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nogginhead)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2003, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-why/149690/41 "2003-01-20T20:50:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > \*\*Whereas, I am now happily retired. 🆒 \*\* Ah. So perhaps I _was_ too generous in ruling out an attention (to december) deficit disorder. I understand retirement can be lonely. ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2003, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-why/149690/42 "2003-01-20T22:53:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\*I get the feeling most of the righties on the board are extremely embarassed by **december** , much like us lefties are embarassed by **Chumpsky**. \*\* Exactly. It’s the extreme points of view (and their blind devotion) that is the most annoying. And the least open to debate, discussion and education. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2003, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-why/149690/43 "2003-01-21T00:46:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by monstro \* > \*\*I like thinking that every white man on the street that I see is december. \*\* A new syndrome! Can I be the first to write it up for the journals? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2003, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-why/149690/44 "2003-01-21T04:59:29Z")
Has anyone bothered with his [latest](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=157490)? :rolleyes: **december** is living proof of the saying that states it is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one’s mouth and remove all doubt. ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2003, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-why/149690/45 "2003-01-21T15:37:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sailor \* > \*\*… I think trying to reason with someone like that is a total waste of time as the only way he will change his mind is if the government does. > > There have been other examples where you can see he is just pigheaded and immune to _any_ kind of evidence. … He is absolutely fanatical in his beliefs and I have _never_ found he has learnt anything. He just preaches and witnesses like any other fanatic and no amount of evidence or reason will make him budge one inch. \*\* And yet, many Dopers consistently rise to the bait, and try to engage in **december’s** “debates” (and yes, those quote marks are there intentionally). For a website dedicated to stamping out ignorance, an awful lot of us seem to be slow learners ;). If **december’s** posts got no responses, they would quickly disappear from page 1, and would eventually cease altogether. Why do so many of us feel it necessary to respond to so much of the nonsense he posts? ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2003, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-why/149690/46 "2003-01-21T15:45:25Z")
“Some men see _new thread_ buttons as they are and ask, ‘why?’ I dream threads that never were and ask, ‘why not?’” 😉 ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2003, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-why/149690/47 "2003-01-21T15:50:48Z")
Oh, I agree. After my first few skirmishes with him I went for several months just ignoring everything h posted. My life was happier and I had more time for useful things. Then I had a relapse and I started ocassionally picking on his most blatant crap but I do try to skip over his posts. And as for december’s “diversity value” I find it of no value at all. I said it about Chumpski and I’ll say t about december: diversity per se is of no value whatsoever. Diversity when the poster is reasonable and brings reasonable views is valuable but when the poster just brings his own itgnorance and prejudice, then there’s nothing to be learnt. And that applies to posters from right or left, up or down. The idea that extremists from one end of the sprectrum are better informed than those of the other end is laughable. ---
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2003, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-why/149690/48 "2003-01-21T15:58:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > \*\*“Some men see _new thread_ buttons as they are and ask, ‘why?’ I dream threads that never were and ask, ‘why not?’” 😉 \*\* Why not? Because it is a bad idea to destroy one’s own credibility with poorly-thought out threads? Because the constant yammering and the flood of threads leads Dopers of both left and right to think, “Oh boy. _Another_ **december** thread,” and any real points you are trying to make are ignored because of your reputation? Because the sheer repetition makes you unable to persuade others of the validity of your POV? Because, if you are not trying to persuade, but constantly start threads just to see the reaction, you are trolling, in violation of the wishes of your hosts here? Why not, indeed? Sua ---
**Author:** ![IzzyR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2003, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-why/149690/49 "2003-01-21T16:05:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > I get the feeling most of the righties on the board are extremely embarassed by **december** , much like us lefties are embarassed by **Chumpsky**. I can’t think of any reason to be embarrassed at anything another poster says or does, whatever they might have in common with you. The number of threads he started is an interesting observation. (Aside: is there some search function that can produce this result?). But OTOH, the fact is that his threads tend to be quite “successful”, at least if measured by number of posts and views. So there is apparently some interest in the stuff he is posting. Interestingly, the same could also be said of Wildest Bill. It is possible that the number of posts is inflated by the sheer number of “december is an idiot” responses. But it is also possible that people are drawn to these black-and-white threads more than they are to nuanced arguments. So a lot of people might be more similar to december than they’d like to think. One other comment: I don’t think December is an extremist at all - just relentlessly partisan. These are not the same thing at all. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2003, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-why/149690/50 "2003-01-21T17:04:35Z")
So why engage him, it has been asked? Because it isn’t totally, or even primarily, about him. As frightening as the thought may be, the views he expresses and the thought processes he uses representative a significant and influential portion of the populace. Seeing the arguments he uses helps one in engagements with others (yes, there is debate outside GD). Also, there are quite a few more lurkers than participants on the board, judging by post count, and those likely include members of that cohort he represents. If “his” “arguments”, taken directly as they are from Limbaugh and the Wall Street Journal, were to go ignored in a place devoted to Fighting Ignorance, it could look like they were unchallenged and therefore Truth. So just think of him as a stalking horse, if it helps. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2003, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-why/149690/51 "2003-01-21T17:19:45Z")
I engage him because I’d hate to think he may be convincing someone out there. And also because I’m always bored. ---
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2003, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-why/149690/52 "2003-01-21T20:55:47Z")
I engage him because I’m a sadist who enjoys shooting fish in a barrel. Sua ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2003, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-why/149690/53 "2003-01-21T21:40:02Z")
Because it isn’t just the threads he starts-it’s also in other discussions. And if we don’t, he’ll continue to spew his bullshit all over the place. He’s like a monkey flinging feces. I thought this place was about _fighting_ ignorance, not _ignoring_ it. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2003, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-why/149690/54 "2003-01-21T22:19:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by IzzyR \* > \*\* > The number of threads he started is an interesting observation. (Aside: is there some search function that can produce this result?). \*\* No. I searched Great Debates for username \*\* december \*\* , then went through each page of search results and did a browser window search (command F or control F) for the name \*\* december \*\* on each page and counted the ones where it appeared as thread starter. I was going to go for 6 months, but I burned out at 60 days. ---
**Author:** ![nogginhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5e9695/32.png) [@nogginhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nogginhead)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2003, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-why/149690/55 "2003-01-22T02:49:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SuaSponte \* > \*\*I engage him because I’m a sadist who enjoys shooting fish in a barrel. > > Sua \*\* It is nice of him to let us all feel so superior. Still, the sadist in me wants to compete with just slightly more provocative party-line Rush-inspired drivel and steal all that attention. To paraphrase Douglas Adams: If anyone did figure out what was the deal with december, he’d instantly be replaced by something more irritating. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/december-why/149690.md?page=2)