# Decided:Smokers are not people **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 7, 2010, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decided-smokers-are-not-people/531612 "2010-03-07T11:49:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decided-smokers-are-not-people/531612/81 "2010-03-09T15:16:35Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Your being a delicate flower doesn’t give you the right to tell others how to live (outside of that which is illegal) in their own homes, yards, porches. So what it comes down to is whether or not there is enough smoke to be grounds for a toxic tort action, or a nuisance action. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decided-smokers-are-not-people/531612/82 "2010-03-09T15:26:50Z")
If you firmly believe, any court of law, is going to hear your complaint about your neighbour, across the road, smoking on his own porch, when you could just close your window, then I say have at it. I don’t care if he was out there every hour, on the hour, smoking cuban cigars and you’re allergic to smoke - he’s not breaking the law and the judge will say, I predict, close your windows or move to a location where the houses are further apart. Your delicacies do not get to shape the behaviours of others, as long as they are acting within the law, on their own property. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decided-smokers-are-not-people/531612/83 "2010-03-09T15:40:05Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > So what it comes down to is whether or not there is enough smoke to be grounds for a toxic tort action, or a nuisance action. Yep. Unfortunately, this has been the pattern for dealing with conflicts over smoke for the last several decades at least. It starts out with smoking being permitted in (insert situation/circumstances here), so smokers puff away and the smoke impinges on those who aren’t smoking. Then non-smokers start saying “Man, it’s really annoying to have to breathe/smell this smoke.” Then smokers say “Suck it up you delicate flower, I have the right to do whatever I like if it’s not illegal.” Then non-smokers say “Well okay, thanks for the hint”, and pass a smoking ban. Then smokers say “Waaaah, everybody’s being so mean to us! Well, at least I can still smoke in (insert other situation/circumstances here)”, and proceed to puff away, and the smoke impinges on those who aren’t smoking. And then the whole cycle repeats. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decided-smokers-are-not-people/531612/84 "2010-03-09T15:45:57Z")
But the point is, it’s still legal for someone to smoke on their own porch, on their own property. And until it’s not, delicate flowers will have to close their windows, move or suck it up. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decided-smokers-are-not-people/531612/85 "2010-03-09T15:54:23Z")
I’m an ex-smoker, but not one of those militant “now that I’ve quit, everybody who hasn’t is an asshole” types. However, I just moved into a new condo and the entire building is non-smoking but everyone who smokes just stands on the landing to the entrance of the building and puffs up a storm. I have to walk through a cloud of smoke to get into my smoke-free building. Pain in the lungs, much? But as long as the carpets inside don’t smell, its all good, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decided-smokers-are-not-people/531612/86 "2010-03-09T16:11:40Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > If somebody is _constantly_ smoking so close to a neighbor’s windows that the smoke gets into the neighbor’s house, though, he’s making his smoking the neighbor’s business. > > Same for people who are constantly burning incense or cooking smoky/stinky food or using perfumes or home deodorizers, or playing loud music or TV or yelling, to such an extent that the neighbors are constantly getting the effects of it in their own homes. > > **Occasionally** being a nuisance to the neighbors is just part of the give and take of community life, but people who are **constantly** broadcasting their personal choices in sounds, smells or smokes so lavishly that they permeate the living quarters of those around them are inconsiderate jerks, IMO. I don’t wish them dead even on the internet, but I don’t think it’s being a Delicate Snowflake to recognize that they’re acting like jerks. How close is too close? How about 30 feet away, with a bit of a yard and two walls (each house has a wall, yup). How about 100 yards away? How about the next county? The OP can get over it. There are already far too many people who want to “rule over” what the rest of us should be allowed to do - because they just don’t like whatever it is. Am I an asshole for wanting to do what I want to do in the privacy of my own home? If so, then [Dennis Leary] I’m an asshole, and I’m proud of it ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decided-smokers-are-not-people/531612/87 "2010-03-09T16:18:42Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > There are already far too many people who want to “rule over” what the rest of us should be allowed to do - because they just don’t like whatever it is. > > Am I an asshole for wanting to do what I want to do in the privacy of my own home? Of course not; the problem only arises when you don’t keep it private. The OP’s not upset that his neighbor is constantly smoking on his own porch; he’s upset that his neighbor’s smoke is constantly coming into HIS house. What nonsmokers really “just don’t like” is not the simple fact that you smoke, but the fact that you’re spreading your smoke into places that they’re breathing—including inside their own homes. What they want to “rule over” is not your behavior _per se_, but rather the effects of your behavior on the air that they breathe. ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decided-smokers-are-not-people/531612/88 "2010-03-09T17:07:10Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Of course not; the problem only arises when you don’t keep it private. The OP’s not upset that his neighbor is constantly smoking on his own porch; he’s upset that his neighbor’s smoke is constantly coming into HIS house. > > What nonsmokers really “just don’t like” is not the simple fact that you smoke, but the fact that you’re spreading your smoke into places that they’re breathing—including inside their own homes. What they want to “rule over” is not your behavior _per se_, but rather the effects of your behavior on the air that they breathe. You’re smart, I like you. Smoking doesn’t affect only the smoker, it effects everyone in a certain radius (depending on how the wind blows). If Sapo’s neighbor had a refuse pile in his yard which stunk to high heaven or a Great Dane that filled his yard with stinky turds Sapo could probably call the city and complain and something would be done but because the neighbor is just smoking that’s no big deal even though it’s just as much a smelly nuisance. People who are anti-smoking aren’t just delicate flowers who don’t like the smell. Many of us with asthma can’t even be around people that smell of cigarettes without having an asthma attack. I happen to think that one person’s right to breathe should supercede someone else’s right to an annoying habit but I do not advocate running down smokers with SUVs. However, Sapo quietly wishing death on the neighbor is over the top, if you can’t ask him to smoke elsewhere or shut your windows, how about putting a fan in the window facing out? ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decided-smokers-are-not-people/531612/89 "2010-03-09T17:07:36Z")
> [@SecretaryofEvil](#): > > Am I the only one who thinks Sapo presents himself as an annoying weakling in this thread? Sapo, exactly how much time do you spend impotently wishing death on people? > > You sissy anti-smoking fascists are all clearly just jealous of how cool and grown up I look. “Impotently wishing death on people”? You mean as opposed to actually going out there and killing them? Most of the time then. In absolute terms, I don’t do it so much. Only when I am thinking in English. When I think in Spanish I normally just go with “me cago en la tumba de tu puta madre” (I shit on the grave of your whore mother). Which is grossly unfair, of course since the mother may or may not be the one to blame for her offspring’s transgressions. I am guessing that you see this as some form of self-repression (and when I say “see” I mean “project”, of course). It is not. It is just how I handle the offenses I don’t care enough to actually do something about. Dude smokes on his porch as is his god given right to do. There is nothing I can do about it so I just wish death on him knowing that he won’t die. At least not because I wished it. It is in no way different from thinking “Oh, Jeepers, how uncouth”. Either way nothing happens. Don’t take your traumas so seriously. And most importantly, don’t think they apply to everybody else. ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decided-smokers-are-not-people/531612/90 "2010-03-09T17:11:34Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > But the point is, it’s still legal for someone to smoke on their own porch, on their own property. > > And until it’s not, delicate flowers will have to close their windows, move or suck it up. Exactly. I am going for #3 since I don’t really much care. If I ever go past that stage, I guess I will have to run for office and change some laws or something to that effect. Until then, he can smoke his life happily away while I wish death on him in the privacy of my mind and wish him a good morning from the teeth out. ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decided-smokers-are-not-people/531612/91 "2010-03-09T17:14:08Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > How come nobody ever complains about marijuana smoke ? > > Is that a problem for you **Sapo**? I don’t smoke marijuana if that’s what you are asking. The smell of it doesn’t bother me as much as cigarette smoke (neither do cigars or pipes). It does bother me to think that the guy will then get on a car or something like that, but that’s besides the point. ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decided-smokers-are-not-people/531612/92 "2010-03-09T17:15:11Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > He was probably told he couldn’t stand on that side because it was hospital property, and for health and safety reasons he would have to cross the street… and then along came **Sapo** , all fired up, and looking to test his vehicle’s suspension. I swear it wasn’t me (this time). I do find it funny that he was asked to cross the street for health and safety reasons. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decided-smokers-are-not-people/531612/93 "2010-03-09T17:16:37Z")
> [@Wile\_E](#): > > People who are anti-smoking aren’t just delicate flowers who don’t like the smell. Many of us with asthma can’t even be around people that smell of cigarettes without having an asthma attack. If you’re standing in downtown Boston and have a spasm every time you see someone with a cigarette, then you’re full of shit. I can tell, since you weren’t already choking to death on diesel fumes and Axe. ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decided-smokers-are-not-people/531612/94 "2010-03-09T17:17:35Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Oh yeah, almost forgot, _shiver_. Boo! (I can do this all month) As I type this I am silently wishing death on inhabitants of the inner solar system. Sun not going nova yet, though. (and yes, I know our sun cannot. something about a helium flash then to get my wish) ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decided-smokers-are-not-people/531612/95 "2010-03-09T17:39:57Z")
> [@](#): > > or a Great Dane that filled his yard with stinky turds **Sapo** could probably call the city and complain He could definitely complain, but chances are, he’ll get told,“if it bothers you, close your windows.” Which is probably what would happen to **Sapo** if he lodged a complaint about the neighbour smoking on his own porch. My point is, it’s your problem, you need to make the change. Not project it onto the neighbour and get them to change how they live in their own home/yard to accommodate your sensitivity. What are you prepared to do to accommodate your Muslim neighbours objection to the smell of your BBQ pork ribs? Give up pork ribs, (_shiver_), or tell them to close their windows, if they don’t like it? ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decided-smokers-are-not-people/531612/96 "2010-03-09T17:57:04Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > What nonsmokers really “just don’t like” is not the simple fact that you smoke, but the fact that you’re spreading your smoke into places that they’re breathing—including inside their own homes. What they want to “rule over” is not your behavior _per se_, but rather the effects of your behavior on the air that they breathe. But ------ from other threads I’ve been in on the topic, smoking inside is generally thought of as bad. Not just bad but in many states against the law unless it is your home and you do not use your home for business purposes (under a varying range of qualifications). If you want to smoke at work or at a bar, nonsmokers want all smokers to take it outside (something I argue against). No excuses, no exceptions - get out on the sidewalk and out of “public space” inside four walls and a roof. Here we got a guy doing just that; taking his smoke outside - and he gets pitted. Maybe he uses the porch to keep the smoke away from children, who knows? But he follows the general guidelines society sets for smoking and that isn’t good; just the opposite. There indeed are nonsmokers and what you say may hold true for many of them. But you also have anti-smokers and they do indeed want to “rule over” others. ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decided-smokers-are-not-people/531612/97 "2010-03-09T18:49:26Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > If you’re standing in downtown Boston and have a spasm every time you see someone with a cigarette, then you’re full of shit. I can tell, since you weren’t already choking to death on diesel fumes and Axe. I’ve never been to Boston. But let me explain asthma triggers, they can vary from one asthmatic to another. Many are set off by cigarette smoke, some aren’t - those ones may even smoke themselves, but as a general rule smoke is a common trigger. Some may have only one trigger, some could have several, people bothered by diesel fumes probably avoid metropolitan areas. So just because someone wasn’t coughing before you blew smoke in their face doesn’t mean they’re full of shit because they started coughing when they were within your eyesight, you can usually smell cigarette smoke before you see it. I don’t understand why smokers get so offended by people coughing around them. If someone farted around you, you’d probably react and wrinkle your nose in disgust and maybe even cover your face and run out of the room. Coughing or covering your mouth and nose is a common reaction to a noxious smell. You may like the smell of your own cigarettes and farts but that doesn’t mean everyone else does so don’t be so shocked or offended when they react. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decided-smokers-are-not-people/531612/98 "2010-03-09T18:55:40Z")
> [@Wile\_E](#): > > I don’t understand why smokers get so offended by people coughing around them. I don’t get offended, I just think you’re full of shit. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decided-smokers-are-not-people/531612/99 "2010-03-09T19:07:31Z")
> [@kopek](#): > > But he follows the general guidelines society sets for smoking and that isn’t good; just the opposite. Yup. And alas, what that may indicate is that the general guidelines society sets for smoking aren’t working. Society says “Nix on smoking indoors except in your own home, but you can generally smoke outside, especially on your own property.” So law-abiding smokers do just that, and what happens? Non-smokers still end up continually breathing law-abiding smokers’ smoke inside their own homes (like the OP), or continually having to walk through law-abiding smokers’ smoke to get into their own homes (like **Jack Batty** ). And they still don’t like it. Clearly, the guidelines designed and legally implemented to allow smokers to smoke without having their smoke bother non-smokers are not working adequately. If smokers are going to insist “I’m going to smoke anywhere it’s legal whether you like it or not, and any delicate flower who doesn’t like it can just suck it up or move elsewhere”, then people who don’t like it are naturally going to respond by supporting more and more legal restrictions on where it’s allowable to smoke. Sure, there may be a few anti-smokers who just enjoy bossing other people around for its own sake, but I think you’ll find that most non-smokers would be perfectly happy to have you smoke anywhere and everywhere you wanted _ **if there were only some way for you to keep your smoke to yourself** _. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2010, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decided-smokers-are-not-people/531612/100 "2010-03-09T19:15:38Z")
Anyone want to challenge the claims in this link? [Passive smoking doesn’t cause cancer.](http://www.forces.org/articles/files/passive1.htm) > [@](#): > > A report published in the British Medical Journal last October was hailed by the anti-tobacco lobby as definitive proof when it claimed that non-smokers living with smokers had a 25 per cent risk of developing lung cancer. But yesterday, Dr Chris Proctor, head of science for BAT Industries, the tobacco group, said the findings had to be taken seriously. "If this study cannot find any statistically valid risk you have to ask if there can be any risk at all. > > “It confirms what we and many other scientists have long believed, that while smoking in public may be annoying to some non-smokers, the science does not show that being around a smoker is a lung-cancer risk.” The WHO study results come at a time when the British Government has made clear its intention to crack down on smoking in thousands of public places, including bars and restaurants. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decided-smokers-are-not-people/531612.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decided-smokers-are-not-people/531612.md?page=6)