# declawing is AMPUTATION (in defence of cats) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 3, 2001, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/declawing-is-amputation-in-defence-of-cats/96698 "2001-12-03T21:35:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![gadgetgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c5a1d2/32.png) [@gadgetgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gadgetgirl)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2001, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/declawing-is-amputation-in-defence-of-cats/96698/1 "2001-12-03T21:35:55Z")
OK, I’ve been quiet about this for long enough. But I tell ya what, I’m getting pissed off. I’m really sick and tired of people thinking that they can just main their pets and its OK. If I hear, “OH, my little Fluffy is a house cat, so I had him declawed” one more time I’m going to run around with gardening sheers and start snipping off some cat owners fingertips! I mean it! Declawing is cruel. Period. If you don’t want an animal with claws **DON’T GET A DAMN CAT!** the claws are part of the kitty package. “oh, but I don’t want my kitty to damage my furniture” then get a scratching post and clip the cats claws. You wouldn’t fip out a dog’s teeth if it chewed upi your favorite shoes, would you? “oh, but he’s an indoor cat, he doesn’t need his claws” um, sorry, shithead, claws are pretty essential to a cats sense of balance and ability to clean itself properly. (have a poke around [this site](http://amby.com/cat_site/declaw.html)if you don’t believe me)And what should happen if puss should sneak outside and get chased by a rabid dog, hmmm? I’m thinkin’. Fido gets a kitty for dinner. Surgical removal of a cat’s claws (or an onychectomy) is painful and completely unnecessary. I’m really sick and tired of people just referring to it so flippantly, “oh, I just mutilated my cat today, and it’s Ok, because I’m an all knowing human…la de da” And don’t give me that “oh, but desexing your cat is just as bad” argument. There are so many unwanted cats out there that population control is nessasary (yes, the populaion boom is OUR doing) and not to mention that the recovery period for it is nowhere near as painfull as it is for decalwing. Ask a vet, they will tell you about the reaction many cats have. (screaming in pain, bouncing off the cage walls, self mutilation) If you have decalwed your cats, fine, don’t do it to your next cat. If you have not but, are considering it, get all the facts before you do it. DON’T AMPUTATE YOUR FRIEND (and I’m not going to address the issue of docking tails and ears because that is a whole 'nuther post…) ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2001, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/declawing-is-amputation-in-defence-of-cats/96698/2 "2001-12-03T21:43:39Z")
I suppose neutering your pet is out of the question, too? Or what about clipping your bird’s wings, so it can’t fly? Or de-venoming a snake, or de-stinking a skunk? A cat’s claws are not necessary for it to live a happy, healthy life in someone’s home. In that scenario, they are more trouble than they are worth. Methinks someone is a tad too kitty-crazy. ---
**Author:** ![mouthbreather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a698b9/32.png) [@mouthbreather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mouthbreather)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2001, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/declawing-is-amputation-in-defence-of-cats/96698/3 "2001-12-03T21:57:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gadgetgirl \* > “oh, but I don’t want my kitty to damage my furniture” > then get a scratching post and clip the cats claws. You wouldn’t fip out a dog’s teeth if it chewed upi your favorite shoes, would you? I know more than one household that has a scratching post AND ripped up, ugly furniture because of their cats. Also, your analogy is bad. Declawing your cat does not have any physical effect on the cats eating process, as removing a dog’s teeth obviously would. > [@](#): > > _copied from the link in gadgetgirl’s post_ > Declawing robs a cat of an integral means of movement and defense. Because they cannot defend themselves adequately against attacks by other animals, declawed cats who are allowed outdoors may be at increased risk of injury or death. Moreover, it is unknown whether declawing causes some degree of privation with respect to satisfying the instinctive impulses to climb, chase, exercise, and to mark territory by scratching. > > Some declawed cats behave as they did before they were declawed, but others undergo a profound personality change. They may become extremely timid or unusually aggressive. Whether such problems develop from the trauma of surgery or the absence of claws is a matter of speculation. So, in a nutshell… 1.) They lose some defense. check. Not an issue for indoor cats. 2.) it _may_ cause “some degree of privation” because they can’t climb all over and destroy your shit. Forgive me if I don’t shed a tear. 3.) _Some_ cats undergo a personality change. Of those that do, some swing one way while some swing another. No evidence (from this page, anyway) that this is not coincidental. Hmm. Not exactly what I would describe as a compelling argument. ---
**Author:** ![gadgetgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c5a1d2/32.png) [@gadgetgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gadgetgirl)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2001, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/declawing-is-amputation-in-defence-of-cats/96698/4 "2001-12-03T21:58:26Z")
wait in minute, would you really advocate **clipping a bird’s wings?** really? ---
**Author:** ![Jester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jester/32/8223_2.png) [@Jester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jester)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2001, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/declawing-is-amputation-in-defence-of-cats/96698/5 "2001-12-03T22:00:53Z")
Errrrrr…I dunno about you, **gadgetgirl** , but if a cat were attacked by a rabid dog, chances are that claws wouldn’t help it enough to keep it from being put to sleep. At least, I would _hope_ that the owners would have it put to sleep. You think recovery from a declawing is bad? Try dying of rabies. I’m gonna have to go with **SPOOFE** and **mouthbreather** on this one. If a cat lives its life at home, destroys furniture and scratches its owners, only to go completely ape-shit on any vet or person stupid enough to try to clip its claws, then declawing it most certainly a good option. ---
**Author:** ![mouthbreather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a698b9/32.png) [@mouthbreather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mouthbreather)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2001, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/declawing-is-amputation-in-defence-of-cats/96698/6 "2001-12-03T22:02:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gadgetgirl \* > **DON’T AMPUTATE YOUR FRIEND** That would be a kickass name for the biography of JDT. ---
**Author:** ![ENugent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/4af34b/32.png) [@ENugent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ENugent)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2001, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/declawing-is-amputation-in-defence-of-cats/96698/7 "2001-12-03T22:03:12Z")
I do not think that word means what you think it means. **gadgetgirl** , clipping a bird’s wings means trimming the feathers so it cannot fly, not cutting off the wings themselves. ---
**Author:** ![CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crankyasanoldman/32/11670_2.png) [@CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrankyAsAnOldMan)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2001, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/declawing-is-amputation-in-defence-of-cats/96698/8 "2001-12-03T22:04:26Z")
I have never declawed one of my cats. Until this one. He is a wonderful cat, but as a previous stray he is still learning that the best way to avoid my son is to remove himself from the room. Instead, he scratched him, without warning, near his eye, when my son was a baby. It was deep and nasty and scary. Rather than risk another such attack, we felt our options were to get rid of the cat or declaw him. Declawing was an unusual choice for me to make. I used to work for a vet and watched declawing surgery and it really bothered me. However, but I decided I’d rather have a “maimed” cat than give him to someone who might not (otherwise) love him the way we did. I for one am just as vehement about people who have kids and then get rid of their pets. So we made adjustments. You might say it was an unfair and cruel adjustment for our cat to have had to make, but I disagree. And FTR, I’ve seen a lot of neglected scratching posts. I’ve owned cats all my life. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2001, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/declawing-is-amputation-in-defence-of-cats/96698/9 "2001-12-03T22:06:00Z")
. . . and it’s done on almost all large pet birds (parrots, cockatoos, and the like). Doesn’t hurt them at all, really. ---
**Author:** ![gadgetgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c5a1d2/32.png) [@gadgetgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gadgetgirl)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2001, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/declawing-is-amputation-in-defence-of-cats/96698/10 "2001-12-03T22:15:04Z")
“Declawing your cat does not have any physical effect on the cats eating process, as removing a dog’s teeth obviously would” \*\*given it does not affect their eating, but it does affect the way that a cat can clean itself which can make life pretty hard for a long hair cat. Forgive me, but you don’t sound like you like cats very much. \*\* “So, in a nutshell… 1.) They lose some defense. check. Not an issue for indoor cats.” \*\* you can assure me that said indoor cat will NEVER EVER get outside?, really?\*\* “2.) it _may_ cause “some degree of privation” because they can’t climb all over and destroy your shit. Forgive me if I don’t shed a tear.” \*\* if you train your cat properly, they don’t climb all over your shit either. I could send you shots of my perfect furniture. “3.) _Some_ cats undergo a personality change. Of those that do, some swing one way while some swing another. No evidence (from this page, anyway) that this is not coincidental.” **OK,so you don’t accept the psychological changes to some cats, but what about the potential complications? warning,[url=http://www.maxshouse.com/Truth%20About%20Declawing.htm]this page-/url] contains some icky pictures. “Hmm. Not exactly what I would describe as a compelling argument.” \*\* I guess I could say the same thing** ---
**Author:** ![gadgetgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c5a1d2/32.png) [@gadgetgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gadgetgirl)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2001, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/declawing-is-amputation-in-defence-of-cats/96698/11 "2001-12-03T22:17:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by andros \* > \*\*. . . and it’s done on almost all large pet birds (parrots, cockatoos, and the like). Doesn’t hurt them at all, really. \*\* ummmm, no, I understand the concept of clipping a bird’s wings. If you don’t want a pet that flies, I suggest you don’t get a bird. My whole thing is that decaling cats is treated like it is some noninvasive procdeure when it is clearly treaumatic for the pet. sorry for loving my cat. ---
**Author:** ![gadgetgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c5a1d2/32.png) [@gadgetgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gadgetgirl)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2001, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/declawing-is-amputation-in-defence-of-cats/96698/12 "2001-12-03T22:19:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jester \* > \*\*Errrrrr…I dunno about you, **gadgetgirl** , but if a cat were attacked by a rabid dog, \*\* you’re not the first :0 ---
**Author:** ![gadgetgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c5a1d2/32.png) [@gadgetgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gadgetgirl)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2001, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/declawing-is-amputation-in-defence-of-cats/96698/13 "2001-12-03T22:22:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jester \* > \*\*Errrrrr…I dunno about you, **gadgetgirl** ] you’re not the first :0 (but really, I was using “rabid” in a more liberal sense, not a literal one, sorry about that) lookie here, its time for breakfast I’ll be back later with my flame retardant suit on, cheers! ---
**Author:** ![Jet\_Black](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecc23a/32.png) [@Jet\_Black](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jet_Black)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2001, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/declawing-is-amputation-in-defence-of-cats/96698/14 "2001-12-03T22:22:37Z")
I have two cats, and they both have their claws. I have to side with gadgetgirl, if you like your furniture more than the pets, then get rid of one or the other, or find workable alternatives to it. (where ALL involved are happy) Surgical proceedures are irreversible, painful, and (IMHO) sadistic to the whims of the owners. Cats use their claws for many things beyond the arm of the sofa. But it’s a screwed up world, and bad things happen. If SPOOFE wants to declaw a cat, he/she has the right. I hate to say it, but until there’s a legal leg to stand on, there’s nothing to be done. (Save that you can post your opinions - which gadgetgirl is doing). Still, it seems the resposibility of the “owner” to have an environment that lends to the animal’s natural instincts (beyond training). In the case of declawing, it seems, the animal is being modified to fit the environment, not visa-vesa. I guess it all depends on the owner, the owner’s house, and what ideals they have about supporting another form of life in their living system. Now outside the house (in public) there are laws for animals (leashes, potty removal/pick-up, fances, warning signs, muzzles…et). If cats had the habit of using OUR leg as a scratching post, then personal injury would override the animal’s desire. But this is NOT the case, and like so many victimless crimes, fails in argument. Since cats LIKE to scratch, and stretch the tendons that hold their claws (along with shedding overgrown claws), the removal would seem a disservice to them. Thus, removing an aspect of their happiness. (perhaps if you declaw a very young kitten - this pleasure might not be known, thus not missed - but that’s being very spectulative). But then, dogs and cats have lost other limbs, and carried on, without missing a beat. We might want to remember that dogs and cats don’t actually identify themsleves as humans do (again, spectulation - yet debatable). Humans should be careful of the fine line of “humanizing” cats and dogs…on the other hand, humans should also tread lightly on dismissing the probability of an animal’s pain, and or, natural desire. Do poodles really want 40% of their coats trimmed down to the skin and dyed pink, or powder blue? A fine line between, does the animal know any better, OR, does the human care about the animal’s welfare (on that level). I knew dog trainers (of show dogs) who had the vocal chords of their dogs cut - so they wouldn’t bark (thus they are quiet during the expos…and this was a common pratcice). It’s a cruel world. I know. Jet Black ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2001, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/declawing-is-amputation-in-defence-of-cats/96698/15 "2001-12-03T22:27:57Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **SPOOFE** _ > > I suppose neutering your pet is out of the question, too? **SPOOFE** , honey, you’re turning into **handy**. Try reading the OP, shnookums. Esprix ---
**Author:** ![CnoteChris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/278dde/32.png) [@CnoteChris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CnoteChris)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2001, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/declawing-is-amputation-in-defence-of-cats/96698/16 "2001-12-03T22:28:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gadgetgirl \* > **… it is clearly treaumatic for the pet.** How so and where it that shown? Any reputable source for that ‘fact’? Didn’t think so. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by gadgetgirl_ > **…sorry for loving my cat.** Maybe that should read-- “Sorry I humanize my pet and actually believe it is a person.”. Because that would be a more accurate representation given your goofball beliefs on this matter. ---
**Author:** ![Tretiak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a88e57/32.png) [@Tretiak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tretiak)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2001, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/declawing-is-amputation-in-defence-of-cats/96698/17 "2001-12-03T22:33:58Z")
You must realize what the option is for the cat if owners are not allowed to declaw their cat. I hate to say it, but the cat would most likely be put to sleep. ---
**Author:** ![gadgetgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c5a1d2/32.png) [@gadgetgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gadgetgirl)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2001, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/declawing-is-amputation-in-defence-of-cats/96698/18 "2001-12-03T22:43:06Z")
whoo-hoo! I’m a goofball! I can sleep peacefully now, I have achived my goal. ---
**Author:** ![Jet\_Black](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecc23a/32.png) [@Jet\_Black](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jet_Black)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2001, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/declawing-is-amputation-in-defence-of-cats/96698/19 "2001-12-03T22:44:46Z")
Crank as an old man, I hear what you’re saying, and your plight seems rather complex. Again, I defer to the individual owner, and not just a blanket statement. In your case, declawing was an option to keep ALL involved “happier” (if not happy). For others, they may have opted to just remove a violent animal from their home - or in some cases, euthanasia, so nobody has to deal with a violent animal. Others might choose to dump a cat over the saftey of thier own child. A mother cat would surely choose to claw it’s owners if her kittens are threatened. But again, I don’t want to assimilate the two species…this is not the Borg we’re talking about here. I love my two cats, though. I used to have three…and one was sadly killed by a pitbull wandering my neighborhood. The cat fended it off…allowing the other cat (which I still have today) to escape. Sadly, the dog killed him, claws and all. My next door neighbor’s cat was killed by a speeding car the same year (the street is busy where I live). My cats have been indoor only for the last two years. Jet Black ---
**Author:** ![mouthbreather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a698b9/32.png) [@mouthbreather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mouthbreather)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2001, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/declawing-is-amputation-in-defence-of-cats/96698/20 "2001-12-03T22:51:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gadgetgirl \* > Forgive me, but you don’t sound like you like cats very much. I don’t but I don’t think that is clouding my judement here. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gadgetgirl \* > you can assure me that said indoor cat will NEVER EVER get outside?, really? You’re the one who love your cat so much Does that mean you don’t know where it is and you can’t keep up with it? And assuming it may get out when you have the door open for a second – You can’t get it back inside before a bear comes and eats it? > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gadgetgirl \* > if you train your cat properly, they don’t climb all over your shit either. I could send you shots of my perfect furniture. I never argued that cats could not be trained to stay off and not scratch furniture. It’s just been my experience that most are not. YMMV. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gadgetgirl (link fixed) \* > OK,so you don’t accept the psychological changes to some cats, but what about the potential complications? warning, [this page](http://www.maxshouse.com/Truth%20About%20Declawing.htm) contains some icky pictures. It’s not just me, even the page you originally linked couldn’t with any certainty claim psychological changes. And as far as the 19.8% that had “developed complications after release” from the sample size of _cough_ 163 cats. OK. I’d imagine if you took your cat to a reputable vet that those numbers would swing much more in your favor. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by gadgetgirl \* > “Hmm. Not exactly what I would describe as a compelling argument.” > \*\* I guess I could say the same thing_\* \*\* You sure could, just depends on your perspective, I guess. And FTR, I’m not saying you are a goofball or anything like that. Just, objectively, I don’t think you would have convinced not to declaw my cat (Assuming I had one.) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/declawing-is-amputation-in-defence-of-cats/96698.md?page=2)