# Decreasing gun violence/crime WITHOUT restricting the 2nd Amendment **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 14, 2014, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decreasing-gun-violence-crime-without-restricting-the-2nd-amendment/688443 "2014-05-14T15:41:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decreasing-gun-violence-crime-without-restricting-the-2nd-amendment/688443/1 "2014-05-14T15:41:47Z")
What are some ways we can decrease gun violence and/or crimes involving guns _without_ adding any restrictions at all to 2nd Amendment as it is currently defined by the SCOTUS? This isn’t the thread for arguing about the meaning of “well-regulated militia”, “gun nuts”, “gun grabbers” etc. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decreasing-gun-violence-crime-without-restricting-the-2nd-amendment/688443/2 "2014-05-14T16:18:02Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What are some ways we can decrease gun violence and/or crimes involving guns _without_ adding any restrictions at all to 2nd Amendment as it is currently defined by the SCOTUS? This isn’t the thread for arguing about the meaning of “well-regulated militia”, “gun nuts”, “gun grabbers” etc. Gun violence and/or crimes involving guns have decreased by about 50% in the last 20 years. So - keep doing what we’re doing? Whatever it is. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decreasing-gun-violence-crime-without-restricting-the-2nd-amendment/688443/3 "2014-05-14T16:22:37Z")
There seems to be a correlation between crowding COMBINED with poverty and gun violence - so either decrease the population density or increase general wealth. ---
**Author:** ![MacTech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MacTech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacTech)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decreasing-gun-violence-crime-without-restricting-the-2nd-amendment/688443/4 "2014-05-14T16:23:46Z")
Enforce the existing rules, dramatically increase penalties for anyone who uses a firearm to COMMIT a crime. Rob a bank or mug someone whilst using a gun? Automatic 15 year prison sentence tacked on to any additional charges, no parole eligibility for the gun offense, and permanent loss of second amendment rights for the criminal No need to add any laws/bans/restrictions, enforce what’s already in place ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decreasing-gun-violence-crime-without-restricting-the-2nd-amendment/688443/5 "2014-05-14T16:24:03Z")
Education. Free and paid, in schools and out, for kids as well as adults. I’m talking everything from PSAs and billboards promoting safe firearm habits to paying movie studios to make their main characters hold their weapons properly and with muzzle awareness. Incorporate some gun safety classes in grade schools and high schools, and offer paid marksmanship and concealed carry classes to the general population. If we’re going to be the one country on earth with relatively free access to deadly firearms, we ought to cultivate a culture of healthy respect for their power. And by “respect” I don’t mean “paranoia”. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decreasing-gun-violence-crime-without-restricting-the-2nd-amendment/688443/6 "2014-05-14T16:28:43Z")
Well, there’s Chris Rock’s idea for a five thousand dollar tax on bullets. As he pointed out, it might not stop all gun crimes but you’d definitely stop seeing people getting shot unintentionally. Okay, for a more serious answer. I think guns are essentially a multiplier in crime. They don’t cause the initial crime but they make the effects of the crime worse. So if you’re not going to remove guns, you should work on lowering the initial crime rate. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decreasing-gun-violence-crime-without-restricting-the-2nd-amendment/688443/7 "2014-05-14T16:29:11Z")
Reduce poverty and income inequality. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decreasing-gun-violence-crime-without-restricting-the-2nd-amendment/688443/8 "2014-05-14T16:29:50Z")
Treat them like cars. Must be registered and renewed every year. Must have a sample round fired so that the slugs can be stored for use in matches in future crime scenes. Mandatory two week cooling off period before sale is final. Background check required and statement of no mental health issues from doctor. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decreasing-gun-violence-crime-without-restricting-the-2nd-amendment/688443/9 "2014-05-14T16:33:08Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Reduce poverty and income inequality. This. And better mental health care for people in low income brackets coupled with reducing the social stigma for seeking mental health care would probably accomplish a lot ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decreasing-gun-violence-crime-without-restricting-the-2nd-amendment/688443/10 "2014-05-14T16:53:21Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Treat them like cars. Must be registered and renewed every year. Must have a sample round fired so that the slugs can be stored for use in matches in future crime scenes. Mandatory two week cooling off period before sale is final. Background check required and statement of no mental health issues from doctor. The OP asked for measures that did **no** t violate the Second Amendment. My recommendation is to reduce illegitimate births. Being born to a single mother is associated with practically every social ill known to man, so reducing its incidence will help almost across the board. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decreasing-gun-violence-crime-without-restricting-the-2nd-amendment/688443/11 "2014-05-14T16:57:25Z")
> [@MacTech](#): > > …and permanent loss of second amendment rights for the criminal. This could be interpreted as a new restriction on 2nd Amendment rights, couldn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decreasing-gun-violence-crime-without-restricting-the-2nd-amendment/688443/12 "2014-05-14T16:58:49Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > The OP asked for measures that did **no** t violate the Second Amendment. > > My recommendation is to reduce illegitimate births. Being born to a single mother is associated with practically every social ill known to man, so reducing its incidence will help almost across the board. > > Regards, > Shodan So…more abortions and gay marriages? ---
**Author:** ![MacTech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MacTech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacTech)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decreasing-gun-violence-crime-without-restricting-the-2nd-amendment/688443/13 "2014-05-14T17:05:09Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Treat them like cars. Must be registered and renewed every year. Infringement on the 2A, charging for a guaranteed right, raising the cost to discriminate against low income citizens > [@](#): > > Must have a sample round fired so that the slugs can be stored for use in matches in future crime scenes. Ineffective and a waste of taxpayer money, multiple ways to change the rifling marks, the very act of firing the gun slowly changes the profile of the lands and grooves, a brand new barrel will not have the same pattern as one that has fired multiple rounds > [@](#): > > Mandatory two week cooling off period before sale is final. Ineffective, criminal could steal a gun or use another weapon instead, this rule inconveniences collectors and hobbyists > [@](#): > > Background check required and statement of no mental health issues from doctor. already implemented on Federal Form 4473 ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decreasing-gun-violence-crime-without-restricting-the-2nd-amendment/688443/14 "2014-05-14T17:06:39Z")
Ballpark, 1/2 of gun deaths are suicides. While many of those are impulsive, and absent the gun, will choose methods with less guaranteed lethality, or will reconsider attempting suicide, IMHO you aren’t making a big dent in the number of those deaths by restricting firearms access from competent adults. ~35-40% are committed in the course of organized criminal activities; the participants in which, are already prohibited from owning a firearm. Not to mention their organized criminal activities are already illegal—primarily the drug trade. Getting rid of The War on Some Drugs may help lower this number. Beer distributors these days don’t use Tommy guns to settle territorial disputes, but back during Prohibition, they did. And many if not most of the remainder are due to domestic disputes. Again, due to Lautenberg, being convicted of even misdemeanor family violence means you lose the right to own a handgun. (Is it all firearms too?) Yet felons and wife-beaters still are able to get them. My solution, and I don’t know how much it will help, is allow concealed (or open carry) of handguns to competent adults who are willing to jump through the mild procedural hoops in states like Texas, Georgia, etc… Let potential victims—who, in the case of domestic violence, are frequently smaller and weaker than their abusers—choose if they want to be armed or not. Instead of forcing them to break the law if they want a means of defending themselves beyond harsh language. It wouldn’t hurt if we started throwing violent assholes in jail, and keeping them there. Realistically though, the gun violence problem in this country is cultural. We do not have a gun violence problem so much as we have a violent African-American (and to a lesser extent, Hispanic of Latin or South American descent) male problem. Go look at the CDC’s morbidity and mortality statistics by race, age, and sex. When you do, you will find a violent death rate among African-American males that is anywhere from 8 to 15 times that of their White or Asian cohort. The stat that got me was that African-American males aged 70+ had a violent death rate in the same neighborhood as White males aged 15-24, i.e., the prime time for a young male to be a violent asshole. That’s absolutely crazy. While the Dr. Pettit home invasion cases make the news, they are astoundingly rare compared with the frequency of violent death in the poor sections of forty or so cities of America. When you figure out how to lower the violent crime rate in the inner city, do let us all know. ---
**Author:** ![MacTech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MacTech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacTech)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decreasing-gun-violence-crime-without-restricting-the-2nd-amendment/688443/15 "2014-05-14T17:08:55Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > This could be interpreted as a new restriction on 2nd Amendment rights, couldn’t it? Committing a crime is a voluntary action, don’t want to lose your 2A rights? Then don’t commit crimes. Pretty straightforward… ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decreasing-gun-violence-crime-without-restricting-the-2nd-amendment/688443/16 "2014-05-14T17:15:15Z")
> [@MacTech](#): > > Committing a crime is a voluntary action, don’t want to lose your 2A rights? Then don’t commit crimes. Pretty straightforward… As is the OP of this thread: No changes in the 2nd Amendment. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decreasing-gun-violence-crime-without-restricting-the-2nd-amendment/688443/17 "2014-05-14T17:23:25Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So…more abortions and gay marriages? Sure, along with mandatory Norplant for anyone receiving public assistance and some other measures that would horrify the lefties as much as you seem to believe abortion would horrify me. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decreasing-gun-violence-crime-without-restricting-the-2nd-amendment/688443/18 "2014-05-14T17:25:47Z")
Expand the NRA’s child safety program. It’s called the “Eddie Eagle” program and consists of simple rules for kids who find a gun: 1. Stop. 2. Don’t touch. 3. Leave the area. 4. Tell an adult. It should be mandatory for kindergartens everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decreasing-gun-violence-crime-without-restricting-the-2nd-amendment/688443/19 "2014-05-14T17:26:15Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What are some ways we can decrease gun violence and/or crimes involving guns _without_ adding any restrictions at all to 2nd Amendment as it is currently defined by the SCOTUS? This isn’t the thread for arguing about the meaning of “well-regulated militia”, “gun nuts”, “gun grabbers” etc. Ok, but is it clear how the Second Amendment is currently defined by the Supremes? If so, can we have the thumbnail description, so we know what the parameters of the discussion are? If not…? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decreasing-gun-violence-crime-without-restricting-the-2nd-amendment/688443/20 "2014-05-14T17:31:14Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > Realistically though, the gun violence problem in this country is cultural. We do not have a gun violence problem so much as we have a violent African-American (and to a lesser extent, Hispanic of Latin or South American descent) male problem. Go look at the CDC’s morbidity and mortality statistics by race, age, and sex. When you do, you will find a violent death rate among African-American males that is anywhere from 8 to 15 times that of their White or Asian cohort. The stat that got me was that African-American males aged 70+ had a violent death rate in the same neighborhood as White males aged 15-24, i.e., the prime time for a young male to be a violent asshole. That’s absolutely crazy. Isn’t there a “blame the victim” assumption behind your logic here? Or are you arguing that black male shooting victims are somehow responsible for their own deaths? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/decreasing-gun-violence-crime-without-restricting-the-2nd-amendment/688443.md?page=2)