# De'endee Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [July 6, 2011, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052 "2011-07-06T16:30:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 106
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2101 "2011-08-11T21:25:42Z")
By my count \*\*Shadow \*\*is still up 10-9. Am I wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2102 "2011-08-11T21:27:26Z")
No, it was 8-7 before and I made it 9-7. I had already had a vote on him, I unvoted-all for clarity. So it’s 9-9 now. You kicking youself for your vote lock, Pizza? ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2103 "2011-08-11T21:27:37Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > What are you upset about? A non-exhaustive list. 1. We’ve had a week’s worth of discussion and several game-days worth of behavior and posts and votes to analyze. That folks would be unwilling to commit a vote to a close tally is incomprehensible. 2. If you believe both candidates are townie, then vote to limit the damage. Vote for the least valuable townie. 3. If you have no idea whatsoever, vote the lead candidate to either lynch a scumbag, or prevent the leading scumbag’s allies from altering the vote totals. Go on record as being for or against a lynch, regardless of outcome, for endgame analysis reasons. You’re helping your teammates as such. 4. If you have reason to believe folks on the leading wagon are scum, vote the non-leading wagon; regardless of your feelings on the lead candidates themselves. Do whatever goes against the mafia’s plans. 5. Not much discussion about what all our claimed power roles should do tonight. 6. IMO that was also not factored in to the reasons for voting today, or at least not enough, to my dismay. 7. Discussion mostly centered on Red Skeezix and ShadowFacts (unless I was talking) and both of those candidates are going to be scanned or dead soon. What about everyone else? Too many wasted days of discussion. 8. It’s fine to disagree with a man’s case on someone, but without stating reasons is just poor form. It’s as bad as voting for no reason, IMO. I understand my loudness isn’t always welcome, but we could really improve our game, as a team, in several other ways. I’m trying to be constructive in my criticism here; please don’t be offended peoples. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2104 "2011-08-11T21:28:44Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > You kicking youself for your vote lock, Pizza? Let scummy plankton destroy our vigilante. I want him to do it. Maybe then we can lynch his scummy butt. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2105 "2011-08-11T21:28:49Z")
Person who hit the tied value first is lynched. Since Red just now got tied up, ShadowFacts will be lynched. Is it a tie, though? I thought Shadow was still one up. Somebody check that for me real quick, I’m working a meeting. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2106 "2011-08-11T21:29:22Z")
Ah, I see my error. I counted both of \*\*Normal’s \*\*votes in Post 2083, but forgot that when she “unvoted all” one of those unvotes was \*\*Shadow \*\*as well. Yep, we’re all tied up, which means \*both \*\*\*Red \*\*and \*\*Shadow \*\*will be lynched if nobody breaks the tie. If that happens and turns out to be a bad thing, you can blame me. I know some of you will anyway 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2107 "2011-08-11T21:29:57Z")
(that was in response to Normal’s question on how ties work) Still want somebody to check real quick. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2108 "2011-08-11T21:30:08Z")
Heh. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2109 "2011-08-11T21:31:16Z")
Suburban’s right it’s a tie, wrong that it’s a no-lynch. Shadow was at 9 votes first so will be lynched as things stand I do believe. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2110 "2011-08-11T21:32:03Z")
And I forgot about the revision to the tiebreak rules. Nevermind what I just said, except that you can still blame me if everything goes sideways. You know you want to… ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2111 "2011-08-11T21:32:16Z")
Can’t stick around for the denouement, see you guys later. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2112 "2011-08-11T21:36:49Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > Let scummy plankton destroy our vigilante. I want him to do it. Maybe then we can lynch his scummy butt. Last time I checked, I didn’t have unilateral lynching power (lucky you :D) ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2113 "2011-08-11T21:38:47Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > Last time I checked, I didn’t have unilateral lynching power (lucky you :D) No, but the one guy in the game who should get a second shot at the scumbags was either panned completely for his top suspect, and was ignored on the compromise suspect by half the team. Pizza is disappoint. No faith in me at all. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2114 "2011-08-11T21:39:29Z")
Missing multi-quote makes this a pain in the arse. But here goes: [quote=“Normal\_Phase, post:2034, topic:588052”] [quote=me] Suburban’s breakdown of the Night actions is really useful. Here’s my version, in whcih I’m assuming that Red is scum, that Inner and Suburban are town, and adding in our putative scum roleblocker, and a generic scum killer: Night 1 Suburban tracked Pizza - blocked LightFoot investigated Pizza - Pizza is Town Red took no action Inner Stickler protected/blocked Special Ed Scum roleblocker blocked someone. Scum kill Scathach. Red may or may not have taken an action. Suburban was presumably blocked by the Scum roleblocker, as Inner was busy blocking Ed, the other potential blocker. Everything else is straightforward./ > [@](#): > > Not really, given that the color of Suburban’s reported block precisely matches Shadow’s/Ed’s color. Yet Inner said that Ed himself was blocked. Something’s wrong here that has nothing to do with Red Skeezix. I don’t like speculating about the significance of colour, but it doesn’t strike me as very odd that two magical blocks are described the same way. In D&D terms, could this be the same basic spell, used by two different people? In fact, wouldn’t it be giving a hell of a lot away if there was one colour for town blocking and one for scum? > [@](#): > > Regardless, though, the block on Suburban cannot be anyone but Ed, unless Shadow (along with SP?) is doing some bizarrely creative lying. Otherwise we’ve just created the additional roleblocker you say we should not believe (with less justification) exists to have blocked Red last night. I’ve always been working on three blocking roles. Ed/Shadow (it’s highly misleading to count these as two separate roles -it’s the same power being passed on); Inner as Paranoid Doc; a scum roleblocker. But Inner’s block disappears on N4. I don’t see any inconsistency in this yet. Inner blocks Ed; scum block SP; Ed’s block either doesn’t happen or hits vanilla. > [@](#): > > > [@me](#): > > > > Night 2 > > Suburban tracked Ed - Ed took an action > > Suburban received delayed reveal from Night 1 - Pizza took no action > > LightFoot investigated ??? - blocked > > Red attacked Septimus - Septimus was protected > > Inner Stickler protected/blocked LightFoot > > Scum roleblocker blocked someone. > > Scum killed Ed. > > Shadow gained Ed’s powers. > > > > Red, being scum, didn’t attack septimus at all. So the question of whether septimus was protected by his own power or someone else doesn’t arise. Claiming to have gone after a scum who (at the time of the claim) was already under a lot of suspicion is a fairly obvious move. > > Yes, though at least Red did vote for Septimus. So he bussed him? septimus was the scummiest kid on the block after D2. > [@](#): > > > [@me](#): > > > > Suburban’s delayed reveal suggests that the scum roleblocker isn’t a full roleblocker at all, but can only delay actions, or at least results. > > Same thing – this is presuming the existence of a roelblocker who acted only once, with the same color but not the same effect as Shadow used on Red later, and who has otherwise never been seen. > > How is this supposed to be a more conservative guess than the one that makes Red a townie? Who said he acted only once? The scum roleblocker blocked SP Night 1, then blocked Lightfoot thereafter. If you assume there is a scum roleblocker, then blocking the claimed detective is the obvious thing for them to do. > [@](#): > > Thing is, again, I think SP - the obvious target by color for Ed’s block – was in fact someone who Ed would have been very likely TO block. Ed double-voted Septimus, one of Pizza’s suspects. A big leap of confidence, giving the timing. And SP was Pizza’s other suspect. > > I just don’t get how you’re ascribing this to the scum. As I said at the top, I’m working from certain assumptions about alignments, and seeing if the actions make sense with those givens. If Inner is telling the truth about blocking Ed, then Ed didn’t block, so the block on SP was scum. It’s internally consistent. And you’re making a huge, entirely unevidenced leap assuming that Ed agreeing with Pizza on septimus means he agreed with him on SP. > [@](#): > > > [@me](#): > > > > Night 3 > > Suburban tracked Shadow - Shadow took an action > > LightFoot investigated ??? - blocked > > Red attacked Shadow - blocked > > Shadow blocked Red > > Inner Stickler protected/blocked LightFoot > > Scum roleblocker blocks someone. > > Scum fail to kill! > > > > This is the nub of the matter. Inner was blocking Lightfoot, not scum. The scum roleblocker was not blocking scum. > > Inner migth _be_a scum roleblocker, but anyway. If he’s a scum roleblocker, he definitely wasn’t blocking scum! So who was? > [@](#): > > As I’ve stated, I think the most likely motive for no kill on n3 if Red is town was simply to make the frame more convincing. Adn I think there was sufficient motive for a scum Shadowfacts to have done something as risky as this. It is possible they would have taken a pot shot at a probably-protected LF _also_, on the odds a town doc was using the WIFOM to protect elsewhere (and figuring if they got through and undermined the frame, hey win anyway), but it still would have to have been a frame as primary motive. I still don’t think a frame makes sense - did they know Red was a Vig? Or did they just coincidentally frame someone who had a killing power on the Night of a no-kill? Not just frame, but actually block - per Red if he’s town. How incredibly lucky! > [@](#): > > > [@me](#): > > > > Red was blocked. Scum didn’t kill. QED. > > > > Night 4 > > Suburban tracked Inner - Inner cast “a helpful spell” > > LightFoot investigated ??? - blocked > > Red attacked Pedescribe - blocked > > Shadow blocked Pizza > > Inner Stickler protected LightFoot > > Scum roleblocker blocks someone. > > Scum fail to kill! > > > > Did Red actually attack pedescribe? No reason to take him at his word. Inner is no longer Paranoid, but Lightfoot was blocked. So that’s the scum roleblocker or Shadow. But if Shadow is scum, why swap out with the scum roleblocker at this point? > > The color is wrong for Shadow to have blocked either LF or Red. One possibility is that with only three living scum, one full-time roleblocker to handle LF, and one newly leveled-up part-timer to handle Red – that Shadowfacts would by default become the scum killer. In that scenario he woudl not be able to risk claiming a “block” of any unknown player, lest he risk contradiction. Hence his choosing Pizza as his “target”. Colour, colour, colour. We’re less likely to get good analysis looking at colour than we are looking at actions. (We’ve got two different mods writing PMs. Maybe that accounts for all the discrepancies in blocking colour? I don’t wish to besmirch their good names, but it’s something to think about isn’t it?) Plus - who’s this part-timer scum roleblocker? If Inner is the full-timer, Shadow is the role stealer who happened to pick up a blocking power, septimus was the godfather… are you positing a second role-blocker in the intial set-up? On what basis? If the answer to that is “the colour quoted by Red” then I’m sorry, but that’s just too outlandish. On preview - this has taken way too long. I see we’re tied. Courage of my convictions: **vote Red Skeezix** ---
**Author:** ![Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/db5fbb/32.png) [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hirka_T_Bawa)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2115 "2011-08-11T21:46:22Z")
unvote all vote shadowfacts vote shadoefacts Reasoning next post ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2116 "2011-08-11T21:47:15Z")
Well, it’s just about “that time” and there is a tiny chance I might yet live, so I’m just going to re-post this analysis and hope someone finds it convincing enough to add a vote for **Skeezix**. Please take a minute to read this. > [@ShadowFacts](#): > > _On the assumption that Red Skeezix is Scum, but NOT a Scum roleblocker and that everyone else is telling the truth…_ > (I copied **SP’s** format and some of his words for this, but changed the results based on the above assumption). > > Night 1 > Suburban tracked Pizza – blocked. (This indicates the likely presence of a Scum role-blocker) > LightFoot investigated Pizza - Pizza is Town > Red or another Scum killed Scathach > Inner Stickler protected/blocked Special Ed (Ed would not have been able to block anyone) > > Night 2 > Suburban tracked Ed - Ed tried to block someone (This has to be a Block attempt – Ed had no other Night power) > Suburban received delayed reveal from Night 1 - Pizza took no action (jives with Pizza’s near-confirmation) > LightFoot investigated ??? – blocked > No-one attacked Septimus – he was Scum > Red or another Scum killed Ed > Inner Stickler protected/blocked LightFoot > > Night 3 > Suburban tracked Shadow - Shadow took an action (blocking Red) > LightFoot investigated ??? - blocked > Red attacked Shadow – failed > Shadow blocked Red - succeeded > Inner Stickler protected/blocked LightFoot > > Night 4 > Suburban tracked Inner - Inner cast “a helpful spell” > LightFoot investigated ??? - blocked > Red did not attack Pedescribe and was not blocked > Shadow blocked Pizza > Inner Stickler protected LightFoot > > Possible conclusions… > > Night 1 > The Scum blocked Suburban and killed Scathach. > Inner blocked Ed. > LightFoot got a result on Pizza. > > Conclusions: 1 scum roleblocker + 1 paranoid doc > > Night 2 > The scum killed Ed. > Suburban tracked Ed. > Ed tried to get a Block off, but we don’t know if he succeeded or not. > Inner protected LightFoot and also blocked her. > No one attacked Septimus. > > Conclusions: scum probably blocked LightFoot, not knowing or wanting to risk a paranoid doc. Still at 1 scum roleblocker + 1 paranoid doc > > Night 3 > Scum Red attacked Shadow, but was blocked by Shadow. > Suburban tracked Shadow (saw him doing something). > Inner protected LightFoot and also blocked her. > > Conclusions: No Nightkill is a result of scum attacking Shadow and being blocked. Scum roleblocker likely blocked LightFoot for the same reason as Night 2. Now at 1 scum roleblocker + 1 paranoid doc, + 1 Town roleblocker (me) > Night 4 > The Scum failed to kill. > Suburban tracked Inner. > Inner protected, but did not block, LightFoot. > LightFoot was blocked > Red was not blocked. > Shadow blocked Pizza. > > Conclusions: Knowing that I am telling the truth about what I did, I can only conclude that scum blocked LightFoot again (and Red of course was not blocked). But why no Night Kill? I don’t know. 1 scum roleblocker + 1 town roleblocker + 1 no longer paranoid doc doesn’t quite add up. > > **Red being Scum fits everything we know perfectly, except for the lack of night kill last night.** ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2117 "2011-08-11T21:47:14Z")
Does it count if its not bolded? ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2118 "2011-08-11T21:49:03Z")
Oh, poo, didn’t see **Hirka’s** post on preview. Too late now, I guess. Good luck - don’t let my death be in vain!! ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2119 "2011-08-11T21:50:27Z")
Day ends in 10 minutes. With the current votes, ShadowFacts will be lynched. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2120 "2011-08-11T21:50:39Z")
Why not post suggested actions for tonight, ShadowFacts? Come on, give us a hint. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052.md?page=105) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052.md?page=107)