# De'endee Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [July 6, 2011, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052 "2011-07-06T16:30:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 111
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2201 "2011-08-12T20:41:38Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > If they are Scum, then they are not performing any Night tasks for the Scum, and they cannot assist the Scum in fixing the votes. But just because **pedescribe** (or any un-posting player) isn’t posting, does that necessarily mean they’re not performing Night tasks? (Genuine question here, not rhetorical.) And an inactive poster’s absence from votes (assuming **pedescribe** isn’t voting… I’ll have to double-check on that) is certainly not _helping_ town, and could be hurting us, because s/he’s not providing _any_ data points, pro or con. The whole raison d’etre for Mafia, as I undertand it, is the battle between many uninformed players vs. few informed ones. Someone who refuses to provide any information is not doing his or her job as a townie. (And I know this may seem hypocritical for me to mention since I’m not exactly bubbling over with info myself.) ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2202 "2011-08-12T20:46:17Z")
Pedescribe’s thrown a few votes in, but yeah, he’s been singularly unhelpful. I’ve played in a few games where people were for all intents and purposes nonexistent in the game thread but doing shit in the scum thread, so I wouldn’t assume that because he’s not here, he’s not there. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2203 "2011-08-12T21:28:06Z")
I’m not saying he’s priority number one, but over on three other forums, my mantra for years was “No lurker victories” I’d rather lose a game to active, clever scums than lose a game to a guy who was spitting on my efforts as townie the entire game by not doing anything after wasting a slot in the game by signing up and deliberately not playing. That townie doesn’t deserve to win and if I’ve not found all the scums by then, well, I don’t either. And if he’s scum, he’s EARNED his death. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2204 "2011-08-12T23:05:31Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Pedescribe’s thrown a few votes in, but yeah, he’s been singularly unhelpful. I’ve played in a few games where people were for all intents and purposes nonexistent in the game thread but doing shit in the scum thread, so I wouldn’t assume that because he’s not here, he’s not there. True. The caveat to the argument I referred to is that the player in question has to be \*\*completely \*\*absent. In that particular case, the player not only had stopped posting, but had actually deleted their forum account (this was on Idle’s board), so everyone knew for a fact that they weren’t coming back. We don’t know that \*\*Pedescribe \*\*isn’t all over the Scum thread…but I certainly hope that’s not the case…that kind of play would be _way_ uncool. Which leads back to my original question to **Normal** : Why would attacking \*\*Pedescribe \*\*Tonight be bad? ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2205 "2011-08-13T00:33:28Z")
Because I’ll be really rather surprised if he’s scum, and Red needs to attack a scum, if he can attack anyone. Pedescribe put two locked votes on ATPG right before Septimus voted ATPG on day two. His votes sounded genuine, if hasty. And there seem to be more than enough scum night actions to go around, to also have a scum doing nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2206 "2011-08-13T04:26:23Z")
Anyone online now? I have some time to chat. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2207 "2011-08-13T04:50:37Z")
Well, I feel as though we’re in kind of a holding pattern until Dawn but if you have more thoughts, I’m all ears. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2208 "2011-08-13T04:55:16Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Well, I feel as though we’re in kind of a holding pattern until Dawn but if you have more thoughts, I’m all ears. Well sure; I’m not so 100% on your guilt that I wouldn’t talk to you. We’ll work with the assumption Red is scum, not that I believe that but okay. Looking back at my notes… [SPOILER] **Askthepizzaguy** - Proven innocent by lightfoot, and thus, will be too dead to help you out later on in the game. **Normal Phase** - Locked in on septimus on D2 with me and other proven townie special ed. Normal Phase is a very good mafioso but this was COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY and outed the scum godfather as a result of it. And she was about as consistent as myself and Stanislaus on making septimus dead. In fact I was the one who decided to go thought experimenting, not her. **Stanislaus** - too consistent on septimus, and also, locked on Red Skeezix the mafioso even after I tried to talk him out of it. As such, not mafia. **Inner Stickler** - Your theories were right and I was wrong, guys. I doubt massively that Inner and Red and septimus are mafia together. **Suburban Plankton** - Your theories were right and I was wrong, guys. I doubt massively that Suburban and Red and septimus are mafia together. **Hirka T’Bawa** (LOCK SHADOW) His hesitation this round felt fairly genuine, and I had to prod him to even affect the tally at all. This one is probably my fault. He locked early game on someone in a situation I don’t find the scums could have done. Problem here is he locked Shadow. \*\*choie \*\*(Red, and disagreed with me all game long about Shadow, Suburban, Inner, etc. The problem here is she didn’t lock Red, only voted once.) \*\*gnarlycharlie \*\*(Shadow) I’m not really sure. I doubt this one. \*\*Weedy \*\*(Shadow) I’m not really sure. I doubt this one. \*\*USCDiver \*\*(Voted septimus, Red, and Red yesterday) \*Although, no locks… - \*\*MentalGuy \*\*(Shadow) I can buy it if red is scum. \*\*pedescribe- \*\*NO VOTE, and not discussing, therefore useless even if townie. **Red Skeezix** - Mafia and dead. [/SPOILER] I ranked those from least scummy to most scummy in my opinion. You disagree on these or would like me to more closely examine any of those suspects? I have the time, I can pull up their posts and check the record and comment. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2209 "2011-08-13T05:02:46Z")
The only person I’m willing to state I feel is town is you because you got scanned and Lightfoot died. In general, I don’t have any problems with the list but I would be wary of making especially NPhase and Stanislaus look so confirmed. All it takes is one scum to sneak into our heads as seeming townie to trip us at the finish line. If you even wanted to link to a post where you detail your thought process on those two, I’d like to read it, otherwise, I’ll be looking for one Tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2210 "2011-08-13T05:21:29Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > The only person I’m willing to state I feel is town is you because you got scanned and Lightfoot died. In general, I don’t have any problems with the list but I would be wary of making especially NPhase and Stanislaus look so confirmed. All it takes is one scum to sneak into our heads as seeming townie to trip us at the finish line. If you even wanted to link to a post where you detail your thought process on those two, I’d like to read it, otherwise, I’ll be looking for one Tomorrow. Yes, I can give explicit reasons why I am not suspecting Normal or Stan. Please don’t mistake the “blue” as being proven townie. this is still in my opinion zone. As of right now the only confirmed living person is myself, all others are dead. But beyond the realm of facts lies the madness of opinion, and we’re diving deep into my opinion now. Normal Phase Using my “[**Septimus and votes**](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=14104147#post14104147)” I-V as a reference point. Townie posts: [spoiler]DAY ONE: 146 Normal mentions septimus 271 Normal “I do see what askthepizzaguy is saying about Septimus. The case had a bit of a rhetorical air to it. I almost always find Septimus scummy, at least at first, but I’ll buy that he’s worth paying attention to.” **338 Normal Phase unvote vote: Septimus** “Because having looked at it again, I very much agree with ATPG’s assessment of Septimus’ vote post on him. I have issues with it on its content, but the vote is for its style. It looks very carefully constructed, and that is both characteristic of scum at times (it’s a tendency of my own I have to fight constantly when I’m not town) and uncharacteristic of Septimus as a townie.” DAY TWO 657 Normal: "How did you get from here to a casual “for obvious reasons” vote on ATPG, Septimus? You’re criticizing his approach to the game, but to what extent do you really believe him to be scum? Your vote is part of a bandwagon that looks capable of getting him lynched; do you really stand behind that vote? If so, why? " **658 Normal unvote gnarlycharlie, vote Septimus** “The comments from Texcat in 600 also need addressing, Septimus.” **829 Normal unvote ShadowFacts, lock vote Septimus** DAY THREE \*\*887 Normal vote: Septimus \*\* 896 Normal “2. Answer Pizza’s question about your top four suspects.” - was not answered by septimus. 922 Normal “I don’t think it’s likely that both choie and Septimus are mafia given the latter’s snuggling of the former yesterDay. (It’s possible either could be a third party.) I’d like ATPG and SP both to comment on how they feel about that, given they’re currently questioning both players.” 943 Normal "I have problems with both Septimus and choie currently. More in a bit. " 945 Normal ““Let’s keep hunting for real scum” makes my nose twitch, Septimus. Just so you know. … Seriously, Septimus, what’s your point? My vote didn’t swing the result by itself; unless someone already voting for Silver Jan changed their vote after me (which is what actually happened), the odds of you being lynched over her were very slim. Ed, who did do that, was to all appearances town. Silver Jan was town. _Even if I were scum_ there would be no possible machination going on here, and you should be able to recognize that. … Finally – you’re not acting like a TOWN bulletproof. You’re a talkative player, Septimus. Sure it gets you in trouble sometimes, but it’s still your best tool in getting yourself attacked by the scum – be right, and make yourself a tempting target. You’ve been, on the contrary, much quieter than usual. You also hinted quite strongly last night that you expected to be alive in the morning – this is the OPPOSITE of what you should do as a townie with that role. You want to encourage attacks, not dissuade them. But it is what you do if you are a third party and want to keep attackers from testing you.” 949 Normal “I’m not going to respond to all of Pizza’s case again you; it’s just too much. But I’ll say that I agree with some of the things he sees as disingenuous in you, and particularly with the argument about Septimus-PIS. He didn’t highlight the sentence I found the most indicative, so let me go find it myself.” 952 Normal "I’m tempted to ask Septimus how he thought about all of this himself. " 1040 Normal "You’re being too sarcastic, and it’s misplaced. I’ve suspected you plenty in past games Septimus, when you’ve been town, and you’ve never acted liked this. " DAY FOUR **1292 Normal votes Diver (why is this post townie? because he’s one of our top suspects now I think)** **1447 Normal unvotes diver, votes septimus, unvotes ShadowFacts, votes MentalGuy** [/spoiler] Highlights: [ul] [li] Constantly making septimus the topic of conversation.[/li][li] Early votes of septimus[/li][li] Lots of questioning on septimus[/li][li] Lots of agreement he’s acting wrong, AND WHY.[/li][li] Questioning MentalGuy and Diver.[/li][/ul] These all smell townie to me. But then, 2 dead scum teammates down, and we have a tracker… not very safe play, or wise. Normal is wiser than this. Normal Phase is townie. I would wager my winnings from betting everything on septimus on her townie-ness. Next up: Stanislaus. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2211 "2011-08-13T05:51:44Z")
Stanislaus Using my “[**Septimus and votes**](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=14104147#post14104147)” I-V as a reference point, but I also had to go digging for his posts using the “Who Posted?” feature since he didn’t talk about septimus as much. townie posts: [Post 659](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14042886&postcount=659) **Reason** : He’s talking about MentalGuy and Diver as suspects and giving reasons. \*\*893 Stan vote: Septimus \*\* “I’ve got a certain amount of sympathy for septimus’s point that he wasn’t about to argue his way out of locked in votes. It’s true as far as it goes. But he’d spent the whole day in close contention for the lynch - he should have made his position a lot clearer before the very last minute. I know I said power roles should try to argue their way out of votes first, but I didn’t even see him do that very much. It looks like he was always planning to wriggle out at the last minute.” **[954](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14061610&postcount=954)** > [@](#): > > Normal, I was nodding along with the bulk of your last post to septimus, **right until you got to your conclusion. I think he’s scum.** > > **septimus has: evaded the case against him; gone out of his to way to manipulate the vote to save himself; produced an unverifiable roleclaim. (Particularly the way he not only doesn’t know who attacked him - common with Scotsman roles - but doesn’t even know if _he’s used his power_)**. These are all strong scum traits, but I can see how you could tag them as PFK. For me the most damning thing is that scum evidently didn’t feel the need to attack him.\* If he were not scum, and had gone to such lengths to save himself, why would they not target him? Either they’re astonishingly paranoid or somehow didn’t think he was the most likely town power role out there. > > But on a more general note, after I got fooled by a PFK claim last game, I’ve pretty much given up on the idea of trying to separate out PFKs. On sheer numbers, you’re more likely to find scum than PFK and there’s a bigger downside than upside to letting your suspect live a few Days longer. (E.g in this instance, if septimus is a scum blocker we lose N Days of results from Lightfoot). “Kill 'em all and let the mod sort 'em out” is my new motto. [**995**](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14065038&postcount=995)- big case on MentalGuy 996- > [@](#): > > Finally, I’m slightly suspicious of Driver, and more suspicious of Mental Guy. That’s as true then as it was when I wrote that in as many words. I reallly don’t see what your point is here, unless you think we shouldn’t say when we’re suspicious of someone. Which you clearly don’t. 1000- > [@](#): > > It’s my experience with a PFK _claim_: Zeriel’s. I was suckered by it, whereas if I’d stuck with thinking of him as a wrong 'un, I might have actually contributed to a successful lynch. (I realise that this case is different in that septimus hasn’t claimed PFK - rather you’ve concluded he is through analysis: my position is still that it’s better to lynch someone you think is anti-Town now than try to distinguish between the two flavours). > > Mainly, of course, I do think he’s scum - but the possibility that he might be PFK doesn’t make me hesitate to lynch him. 1084 > [@](#): > > To turn this into a slightly less general post, look at where I am now. I’m voting for septimus, and he’s lynch leader, so I’m happy about that. I could vote for Mental Guy as well, but as that would only put him on 2 votes it won’t actually achieve much. It would put my suspicions on record, but I think I’ve already done that sufficiently by making my case on him. The other person I could vote for is TexCat, but as she’s challenging septimus for the lynch, that would just make my top suspect less likely to win so it would be self-defeating. So I either make a meaningless throwaway vote or I negate my own vote. If I’m ever in a position where I don’t mind which of two people swings, I might vote for both of them but the way I see it voting is about stating a preference and the more clearly you do that, the better. 1086 > [@](#): > > **I’d love it if you gave SP/Shadow the benefit of the doubt and helped me slaughter a Lord of some kind. By which I mean septimus.** DING DING DING DING DING 1282- vote Red Skeezix\*\*. **Assuming Red is scum, this is townie.** **[1438](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14095303&postcount=1438)- vote septimus, plus reasoning.** \*\* > [@](#): > > ``` > OK, here's a question - you seem to be placing a lot of credit on votes for septimus in your analysis of people (e.g., Hirka, gnarly, me). I wouldn't be so quick to rule people out - the reason bussing works is that it looks very Townie. Is a vote for septimus really enough by itself to push people down/off your suspicion list? > > ``` 1432- I do like the case on Mental Guy. When I voted for him, he suggested that I was guilty of confirmation bias in making my case. That to be fair is always a risk, so it’s good to see someone else finding him suspicious. 1482- Well, I suppose Red voting septimus was pretty inevitable. But bussing isn’t going to let you off the hook now. I say that because I’m about to: **unvote Red** **vote septimus** (Confirm lock-in on septimus) 1717- I don’t see how this gets Skeezix the benefit of any doubt: Night Three: No Town (or any other) death. Skeezix was blocked. Day Four: We lynch septimus. Skeezix had very little to do with this. Night Four: No deaths - while Skeezix was under pressure to kill. I’m prepared to wait for Skeezix to explain how he’s failed to kill for the fourth Night running, but there’s no part of that that makes me want to give him the benefit of the doubt. The fact that when he fails to kill, Town don’t die strikes me as damning rather than exculpatory. 1763- Oh yeah - the conclusion to that: **vote Red Skeezix** 1964- You guys are nuts. He claimed Doc. We don’t have counter-claim. Against that you have the theory that: 1. Maybe we don’t have a doc - and maybe scum would gamble on that. 2. The detail in the colour doesn’t match canon - and there’s no way the mods fluffed an adjective. 3. The blocking colour sounds hostile - and maybe that’s not because scum were blocking Lightfoot too. 4. After you’ve started being suspicious of him, Inner starts thinking that he might be lynched. Maybe, maybe, maybe. I’ll need a lot more than that to lynch a claimed Doc. 2032- It tells me that Skeezix is lying scum who does not have any ability to kill other than as part of the scum team. If both our interpretations are consistent with the facts, what’s the point of this experiment? Highlights- Not as strong as Normal Phase in the early game, in terms of townie-ness. [ul] [li] However, he comes back very strong (assuming Red Skeezix is scum).[/li][li]Helps lynch septimus, very consistent on septimus.[/li][li]Goes after Red Skeezix HARD.[/li][li]Goes after MentalGuy and Diver, current suspects, early.[/li][li]Constantly confronts/stands up to me and my bad reasoning (if said reasoning is in fact bad…)[/li][/ul] Stanislaus, if scum, has adopted a fairly SUICIDAL approach to the game, which is doing his best to lynch septimus and Red Skeezix as hard as possible. You can’t kill off all your teammates and expect to do well against townies and their power roles you’ve been failing to kill up until now. I’d wager half my winnings on septimus that Stanislaus is townie. Early game feels a bit fluff-y, though. Still, hard to suggest he’s bussing. That’s some damned good bussing. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2212 "2011-08-13T05:53:53Z")
I’m skipping\*\* Inner Stickler \*\*and **Suburban Plankton** , as my true feelings on both are that they’re scum. This opinion reverses entirely if Red Skeezix is mafia. That’s all. Nothing more to be said. **Next up: Hirka T’Bawa** ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2213 "2011-08-13T06:32:30Z")
Hirka T’Bawa [spoiler] > [@](#): > > The bolded parts look like disavowing to me. > > **Vote ShadowFacts** While SF was townie, I like that “kind” of reasoning, it doesn’t feel as fake to me. Plus he’s taking a stand. Slight townie read. > [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](#): > > Let me start off the day with an obvious vote … > > **Vote septimus** > > Since I don’t want to lock in a vote this early, I’m also going to > > **Vote shadowfacts** > > For the same reasons as yesterday, disavowing his votes. The consistent follow-up from the day before is more characteristic of townies. Scumbags do like to flip flop and live in the moment; whatever is most convenient for the scum team is usually what they do. Townies follow a suspect until that suspect dies. It’s not even the septimus vote I find townie here, it’s the consistency. > [@927](#): > > He posted his vote at 6:59pm yesterday, the literal last second. That makes me highly suspicious. If he was telling the truth, and just saw the change in votes, and posted after watching a DVD, I wouldn’t expect the change of vote to be EXACTLY at 6:59… if it was at 6:55, or even 6:58, I might give him the benefit of the doubt… But, 6:59? That to me looks like he was watching the clock before hitting submit, and to me, that is scummy. My vote stands. Good attack. \*\*This next post is evidence _against Hirka._ > [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](#): > > About to leave to take my boards, I will be in the test at end of day, so this will probably be my last post toDay. > > I’ve been thinking about my vote for **septimus** , if he is being truthful with his claim, then his actions last night make a sort of sense. Since his actions are the main reason I voted for him, I think I’m going to give him the benefit of the doubt (for now). > > **Unvote Septimus** > > I haven’t had time to really review the case against **Texcat** , but she didn’t seem that scummy to me when I was actually reading her posts, so I don’t feel comfortable voting for her right now. > > However, nothing so far has made me doubt the case against **ShadowFacts** , I still think he is most likely scum, and probably the most likely of the top three lynch candidates. Since I won’t be here later, there is no harm in me locking in my votes, so: > > **Vote ShadowFacts** > > Just a note, I believe this makes a three way tie between **Septimus** , **Texcat** , and **ShadowFacts**. I believe there is 7 hours left to End of Day… > > What is the tie policy in this game? > > Go town, I’ll be back after nightfall after I finish my test. > [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](#): > > No death tonight! That’s great news! Go Town!!! > > Now, about the accusation **ShadowFacts** has made about **Red Skeezix** , let me just play devils advocate for a moment. There are multiple reasons that there might not have been a death tonight. > > [ol] > [li]Red is scum who was doing the kill tonight, and ShadowFacts saved his own life by roleblocking him.[/li][li]We have a doctor who guessed correctly on the night kill.[/li][li]ShadowFacts is really scum, and the scum decided to not kill anyone in order to play a trick, and make us lynch a townie.[/li][li]Some other reason I haven’t thought of[/li][/ol] > > However, while I fear 3 could be a possibility, I’ve looked through **Red Skeezix** ’s posts, (which there weren’t many), and his vote history (He has only voted for known town, or the safe votes of the day [Like **Septimus**]), and I’m not seeing anything that yells “TOWNIE” at me, and honestly, it looked like Red was trying not to say much at all. > > So, for now, I’m going to: > **Vote Red Skeezix** > > Because number 1 could be true, but even if number 2 is true, there is nothing in Red’s posts that make me doubt he might be scum. > > Well, back to studying for my Law exam! This post feels kind of act-y to me. I currently consider Red Skeezix townie; this whole thing is a thought experiment as to what happens if Skeezix is mafia. If Skeezix is mafia then the plan is to bus Skeezix hard in an attempt to save septimus, which there are indications Hirka wants to do. _ **I can’t consider this evidence in his favor.** _ > [@](#): > > Been busy, haven’t had time to catch up, but, I do see that lightfoot confirmed she got a message, so I believe shadowfacts. I only remember voting once, even thought astral says I’m locked in… but only one vote is counted… eiter way to be safe. > > vote red skeezix > > On phone please excuse typos. **POSTING FROM PHONE!!! HIRKA IS MAFIA!!!** (Ask Normal Phase.) > [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](#): > > Hey guys, sorry I’ve been away all Night, My friends and family have kept me busy this weekend celebrating my passing two of the three tests I need to get licensed… > > Ok, first, Woot! No NK! Go Town!!! Woot!!! (sorry, had to get the celebration out of my system) > > Ok, as for the possibility of a paranoid doctor. My belief (or suspicion), is that the doctor started out paranoid, but, as he gains levels, he’ll lose that paranoia, and turn into a regular doctor. If that is the case, then I wouldn’t necessarily want him to claim yet. > > As for who is out there, I currently believe 100% that **Lightfoot** is town (for obvious reasons), and I also believe 100% that **ATPG** is town, for two main reasons. First, he has been after **Septimus** since at least day 2, and there was no reason for a busing that early, and also his posts just sound town to me. > > I’m leaning town about 75% on **Normal Phase** , I believe her role claim, and I see why she did it. Her posts also seem town, and she hasn’t done anything to make me doubt her. > > I’m leaning town on **ShadowFacts** , his role claim just seems more believable as a town role then a scum one, and his message to **Lightfoot** at least proves he has the power he claimed. > > As for **Red Skeezix** , I still believe he is most likely lying. I think the odds of him missing his target every night to be doubtful, and, when he claimed he targeted **septimus** his revealed PM said **Septiumus** was “Protected”. I’ve never seen a scum doctor, and I really doubt our doctor would protect someone right after their scummy vote change. However, I can believe his PM would have been true, if he targeted someone who was protected… Like **Lightfoot**. > > **Vote Red Skeezix** > > I need to look at **Inner Stickler** and **SP** more. **ATPG** , do you have a link or post number to your wall of words on them? the underlined part just feels very oddly like information Hirka knows. It’s a very good guess. Anyway, if Red is scum, septimus is dead and now he’s bussing Skeezix very happily. > [@](#): > > I really want to hear **ATPG** ’s thoughts on his other targets then **ShadowFacts** … Nice. I like this question, especially in retrospect. > [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](#): > > Wow… What a day… Lots of information, not enough time to digest it! That’s what I get for playing a video game instead of immediately coming to check the Mafia thread… > > Ok, I’m following **ATPG** here… Let me say, even with your wall of words, I like you around. I’ve always been more for following cases then making them, and I have to say, your cases make since, specially now that I trust you as town. > > I’m believing **Inner Stickler** , mainly since his claim is what I expected of a doctor. Paranoid to begin with then becomes normal… > > However, he claims to have blocked **Lightfoot** the previous nights, ok, I can expect that… but he didn’t block Lightfoot last night. While, **ShadowFacts** claims to have blocked **ATPG** , and **Red Skeezix** claims to be blocked. That means there are three blocks claimed… I can believe **ShadowFacts** has blocking power, and there is probably a scum blocker… Since IS claims he didn’t block last night, then who is the 3rd? > > Since I’ve heard the arguments against **ShadowFacts** , and honestly, I don’t know why in the hell he decided to block **ATPG** last night (I can believe the block a claimed town vanilla to avoid screwing over a town power role, I don’t believe the blocking ATPG… He had a lot of town cred for the lynch of **Septimus** , I would have though **Normal** would have been a better “Safe” block)… > > So, for now, I’m going to > > **Unvote Red Skeezix** > **Vote ShadowFacts** > > While after the events so far, I believe Red has a lower chance of being scummy then Shadow, I would rather another choice then just these two. > > Well, got to go… My wife is YELLING at me to come to bed. (literally, two texts, and now came in room) so got to go. The reasons against ShadowFacts, while wrong, sounded townie. No, unvoting scum Red Skeezix doesn’t mean he’s guilty 100%. Factor in the reasons why. > [@](#): > > Class: Invoker > Alignment: Defenders of De’endee > Win Condition: You win when all threats to the Defenders of De’endee have been vanquished. > Powers: None. > Role: NPC I am not sure an “Invoker” is an NPC role. That looks too specific. Just a gut feeling. > [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](#): > > I have to say, normal is making a lot of sense on **MentalGuy**. I’m definitely seeing him playing it safe. > > **vote mentalguy** > > Anyone have a current vote count? Good vote, I think. > [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](#): > > **ATPG** , as you mentioned in one of your wall of words, I will not be comfortable lynching a claimed doctor unless there is a counter claim… However, I will take your thoughts and words in consideration, and if **IS** still survives two nights past today, I WILL vote to lynch him… Unless the next two nights show no NK’s, which might just show that **IS** won a WIFOM game with the scum… Though, if there is a NK, and and **IS** is still alive, I’ll be on the lynch **IS** bandwagon for you, even if you end up dead before then. > > However, I do have doubt on your ideas… While you’ve been doing very good over all, and I do believe you’re town, you thought I was the real “Doctor”, (which I’m not), so, I do think it is possible you are mistaken… But, at least I know your heart is in the right place, and if it comes down to LYLO I will defiantly take your thoughts into serious consideration. > > In the mean time, I would really like to hear your thoughts on **MentalGuy** , I thought **Normal Phase** made a really convincing case on him, and I’m totally willing to lynch him over it… Personally, I think **MentalGuy** would be a better lynch then either of **Red** or **ShadowFacts**. > > And for the record… I don’t think the color between “Arcane” and “Divine” to mean much, and don’t think it is a good case. I’ve never played actual DnD, just various games that took inspiration from DnD, and I’ve always understood “Arcane” to just mean “Really Old”… It wouldn’t surprise me is **Astral** took it to mean the same thing. Besides, **Suburban** ’s stated PM even said it was a “helpful” spell. He’s pushing me to look at MentalGuy and doesn’t take the bait on voting Stickler. I disagree with him about Inner and Suburban, but that’s just going to have to sit until Red Skeezix flips townie. [**2008**](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14125968&postcount=2008) If Red is scum, this looks good. > [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](#): > > Which I’m starting to believe, I’m believing red because of his vote record, and Shadowfacts because his role and arguements just seem more town then scum to me. > > I don’t feel comfortable voting for either one of them right now. However, I will refrain from locking my votes in case of any last minute voting irregularities. I was the one who pushed him out of this stance. > [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](#): > > Ok, on phone so this will be short. I just voted shadowfacts for two reasons, one, didn’t like the last minute vote swings, so wanted it to go back to how it was an hour ago. Second, while I believe they are both town, Shadow has used up most of his powers, so will be the lesser loss. If Red is scum, this post looks quite incriminating. **POSTING FROM PHONE = MAFIA!!!** [/spoiler] Highlights- [ul] [li]The \*content \*of his posts feels townie, even though his votes can be read as scummy.[/li][li]His “GO TOWN WOOOOOOT” stuff feels over the top. But I don’t know him well so I can’t be sure about that judgment. It feels like acting to me.[/li][li]Posting from phone- In this example, it’s not just a joke. Townies aren’t THAT interested in these games, especially vanilla ones, unless they’re Askthepizzaguy. In general. This guy is following the thread AWAY from his computer… why?[/li][li]Some of his vote switches look very incriminating. That said, I pushed him towards the scummiest one. But I can’t whitewash that away completely.[/li][/ul] Anyway, it’s not a strong read either way, but on review, there’s much less solidly townie behavior than I remembered. That’s if Red Skeezix is guilty, that is. **If Red is scum, Hirka becomes a suspect [6/10]** \*\*If Red is townie, I like Hirka more. [2/10] \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2214 "2011-08-13T06:54:27Z")
choie- \*\* Remember my early game case against her? That is all valid and still stands. Refer back to it, regardless of Red Skeezix’ guilt or innocence. **She’s one of the few people who don’t flip as a suspect regardless of which way Skeezix flips. Her change in behavior is pronounced and decidedly nervous and unhelpful (IMO) that said, it’s not 100% solid.[spoiler]**[566](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14037922&postcount=566)- I don’t agree with this post. [570](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14038025&postcount=570)- too many emotional states in three lines. 581- \*\* > [@](#): > > Thanks **septimus**! Good advice (I think, assuming you’re not scum :D). You’re right about gauging sincerity. I think that’s what’s bothering me about **Silver Jan** most. She seems to think she’s making her “li’l ol’ townie” case conclusively just by repeating it, and it doesn’t feel right. If she were as bad at this as I am, or as new as I am, it’d be a different story. But she’s played Mafia here before, and from stuff she’s said, she’s played elsewhere a few times too (maybe IdleMafia and Giraffeboards?). This ain’t her first time at the rodeo, and I don’t think she’s the sweet flaky neophyte she’s pretending to be. (And that endeth my Columbo impression.) **Just rubs me the wrong way.** > [@](#): > > As far as **Askthepizzaguy** ’s controversial style of play, I do find it frustrating not so much if he’s scum, but if he’s Town. Because it seems to me that if one’s posting style is so, uh, eccentric that it continually puts you in the firing line and makes you The Big Issue, you’re basically distracting your fellow townies from doing _real_ scumhunting. > > In short, if you really are town, **pizza** , maybe it would behoove you to stop taking such darn pride in having a posting style that puts you at the center of the heated attention. > > If you’re scum… well, hey, keep it up. We’ll get you on the gibbet where you belong. \*\*Just rubs me the wrong way. \*\* > [@](#): > > The **septimus** thing at the end of the day kinda bothered me. I noticed that though there were six votes on the guy, they only came from three people, each voting twice. (In contrast, **Silver Jan** ’s six votes – prior to the last-minute **septimus** self-preserving flip – came from six of us.) Two of the **septimus** voters came from the (IMHO) closely aligned pals **pizza** and **Normal**. So they think alike and are similarly very, very certain of **septimus** ’s evilosity. And the third pair of votes came from **special ed** , who’s another of the most chatty members of the game. They’re all very experienced and seem to know what they’re talking about, so now I’m finding myself being swayed by their certainty. > > OTOH… I just don’t get why **septimus** is pinging them as evil, especially for the last-minute votes on **Silver Jan**. Wouldn’t it be normal for a townie to try to save yourself? If the same thing happened to me, feeling unjustly ganged upon, I would probably have voted strategically too. The fact that it was at the _literal_ last minute seems smart, not suspicious. No? Are we supposed to sacrifice ourselves for someone we think may be guilty? (This assumes, of course, **septimus** genuinely thought **Silver Jan** was scum. If he genuinely thought her a fellow townie, then I think a self-sacrifice should’ve been in order.) \*\*Just rubs me the wrong way. [929](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14060615&postcount=929)\*\*- I don’t like this defense at all. > [@](#): > > Possible? Crazy? > > What the heck. I voted for her on Day Two, and I’m gonna renew it. > > **vote Normal Phase** I don’t like this vote at all. > [@](#): > > So, yeah. I’m drowning in indecision here, which I know makes me either totally useless to town or seem scummy to those who are convinced that anything less than 100% confidence means omgscum. Excuses and fence-straddling. Scummy. > [@](#): > > Well, I’m going to do something that will probably mark me down as the scummiest scum that ever scummed, but just because I feel like being controversial… > > **vote LightFoot** I can’t explain this vote as townie or scum. Just choie, I suppose. > [@](#): > > ``` > Hallefreakin'lujah, we got one at last. > > ``` Way too annoyed. > [@](#): > > There! Aren’t you every so glad I spoke up? Way too annoyed. > [@](#): > > ``` > Well, I might as well pipe up (for all the help it offers to my team*). First, thanks to **Astral** and **Mental Guy** and **Suburban Plankton** for the encouragement and defense. I'd thank **pizza** too, for ascribing so much cleverness and manipulation to my gameplay, except that his compliments only make me feel worse, 'cause he's basically saying that it's simply not possible to be as flaky and horrible a player as I am without in truth being the second coming of Macchiavelli. Alas, the all-too-sad truth is that yes, it really *is* possible for someone to be as bad at this as I am! > > ``` **Don’t let her survive this game. I’m choking on this.** > [@choie](#): > > Whoa. I just caught that **ShadowFacts** is using all four of his votes on **Red Skeezix**. Again I do _not_ like the double-vote mechanic, and I certainly don’t like a quadruple vote power being used to push someone else into the noose. That’s crazily undemocratic. > > I still have another vote, so for now let’s split the difference: > > **Vote ShadowFacts** > > Edited to add: > > No, you know what? I think that’s weasly. Either I believe **ShadowFacts** ’s comments about **Red Skeezix** or I don’t. It doesn’t make sense to vote them both. > > So as weird as it may be to unvote myself in the same post… > > **Unvote ShadowFacts** > > Sorry guys. I’m trying. No, this isn’t trying, to me. > [@](#): > > Jeebus. I see it really pays to be sincere about one’s thought processes, doesn’t it? I don’t get the sincerity vibe. [**2001**](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14125859&postcount=2001)- Choie’s curiosity and questioning of my reasoning on Stickler feels defensive. It doesn’t matter which way Red flips. None of it sits well with me. > [@](#): > > Oh fuck me sideways. I didn’t remember that the day ended an hour early. Sorry, **ShadowFacts**. > > Well, let’s see what all those **ShadowFacts** hate train riders have to say for themselves, hmmm? > > Looking forward to voting, locking & loading on **Red** Tomorrow. This post makes me gag on the scumminess, ESPECIALLY if Red flips townie. > [@](#): > > Well, thanks, but waitasecond. Why is it unusual for us to want to take a look at the folks who railroaded an innocent lynchee? Isn’t that standard gameplay? These kinds of comments disagree with choie’s “I have no idea what I’m doing, I’m so lost” acting. > [@](#): > > But just because **pedescribe** (or any un-posting player) isn’t posting, does that necessarily mean they’re not performing Night tasks? (Genuine question here, not rhetorical.) I dislike how choie constantly describes herself as townie, genuine, and with similar characteristics. I don’t get any of those vibes from her. > [@](#): > > (And I know this may seem hypocritical for me to mention since I’m not exactly bubbling over with info myself.) Characteristic of choie is her pre-emptive defense of things she knows is scummy. Everything she does is self-conscious. Gah…[/spoiler] Highlights- More of the same stuff I criticized her on before. [ul] [li]None of her votes seem townie to me, even if Red flips scum. She reads like a cornered animal.[/li][/ul] I don’t know choie, but I can’t find anything substantively townie in her play. But I could be wrong. I’m not betting the farm on her, but I can’t excuse her survival through the game. She needs to be proven townie by death or other means. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2215 "2011-08-13T09:49:55Z")
Can’t quite finish. But what Normal has been saying about \*\*MentalGuy \*\*looks good, if Red flips scum. **Diver** - I can forgive early votes on me, and I approve of his votes on the scumbags, but if Red flips scum, these things will seem too coincidental to me and I will wonder why he didn’t lock. Weedy and gnarly just haven’t been scummy enough for me to be comfortable removing them now, especially when much scummier exists. Weedy’s response to questioning was good and gnarly just never rubbed me the wrong way. He was quite gnarly. His “late” vote for septimus seemed a bit fakey, but it could have happened. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2216 "2011-08-13T21:07:44Z")
**When does this night end, again?** ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2217 "2011-08-13T22:11:08Z")
45 minutes I think. I’ve been such a slug tonight. Bah. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2218 "2011-08-13T22:45:22Z")
Night ends in 15 minutes. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2219 "2011-08-13T23:01:19Z")
The screams were the worst. The townspeople and adventurers cringed in their beds, adrenaline pounding through their veins. The Lords of Slaughter were taking their sweet time. The tortured screams echoed softly from some distance; either the Lords had caught someone out and about at night, or they had dragged them away. In the morning, search parties were sent out. It didn’t take long. **Suburban Plankton has been killed. His body was mutilated almost beyond recognition. Day has arrived, and will last until August 17th at 5 pm central time. Please note that days are now only 4 days long, and that Nightfall has been permanently changed to 5.** ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2220 "2011-08-13T23:02:20Z")
(sorry for the short color today, I’ve been rushed all weekend. Nightfall will be just as ginormous as you guys have come to expect from me!) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052.md?page=110) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052.md?page=112)