# De'endee Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [July 6, 2011, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052 "2011-07-06T16:30:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 116
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2301 "2011-08-15T12:28:58Z")
I’ll do it. I like the observation about Hirka/Mental Guy not being scum together. ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2302 "2011-08-15T12:39:45Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > **Two questions:** > > Would you have any preference whatsoever if I voted for Hirka or choie today? > > Would you like a shorter version of the case on either one to assist you in answering question one? No preference, because I have no read on either. If you’d like to try to convince me, a Cliff’s notes version of the cases would be welcome. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2303 "2011-08-15T12:48:42Z")
Here are the first few days again, updated. Suburban and ATPG assumed as town. Any errors let me know; I’m going to have to do the last few days from scratch anyway. Day 1 RedSkeezix - Askthepizzaguy 137 225 Tom Scud/Diver - Normal Phase 140 196 choie - pedescribe 150 184 pedescribe - Stanislaus 159 204, Silver Jan 382 special ed - Suburban Plankton 169 277, special ed 372 436 Kelly Criterion - Normal Phase 196 338, ShadowFacts 203 360, Stanislaus 204, MentalGuy 217, choie 247, Silver Jan 285, Scathach 293, Special Ed 295, TexCat 315, Suburban Plankton 342, LightFoot 361, Normal Phase 397, USCDiver 432, special ed 449 Koldanar/Hirka - Scathach 211 293, Askthepizzaguy 225, MentalGuy 319, Romanic/Weedy 363, Scathach 411, Silver Jan 416 Normal Phase - KellyCriterion 213, Silver Jan 227 274 Askthepizzaguy - gnarlycharlie 228, Koldanar/Hirka 238, septimus 248 Silver Jan - Red Skeezix 233, ShadowFacts 360, pedescribe 369, choie 419, MentalGuy 429 431, USCDiver 432, Suburban Plankton 433 Romanic/Weedy - Silver Jan 324 366 septimus - Normal Phase 338, special ed 371 372 Suburban Plankton - special ed 436 449 Day 2 septimus - Askthepizzaguy 488, Askthepizzaguy 528, Normal Phase 658, special ed 680, Normal Phase 829, special ed 832 ShadowFacts - Normal Phase 490 829, Red Skeezix 601 790, Hirka T’Bawa 820, Hirka T’Bawa 826 special ed - Stanislaus 531 591, Silver Jan 721, Silver Jan 752, Weedy 761 773, TexCat 783 gnarlycharlie - MentalGuy 542, Normal Phase 543 658 Koldanar/Hirka - MentalGuy 542 Normal Phase - special ed 544 680, choie 566, gnarlycharlie 649, ShadowFacts 812 Askthepizzaguy - special ed 544, pedescribe 553, pedescribe 553, septimus 572 838, Weedy 611 740, USCDiver 628 Silver Jan - choie 566, ShadowFacts 575, special ed 588 832, Suburban Plankton 595, Red Skeezix 601, Inner Stickler 610, Weedy 791, septimus 838, septimus 838 choie - Silver Jan 569, Suburban Plankton 595 722 Koldanar/Hirka - LightFoot 597 USCDiver - gnarlycharlie 649, LightFoot 821 MentalGuy - Stanislaus 659 TexCat - Suburban Plankton 722 pedescribe - ShadowFacts 770 Day 3, septimus - Hirka T’Bawa 885 1091, Normal Phase 887 947, Inner Stickler 888, Stanislaus 893, gnarlycharlie 959, MentalGuy 968, Red Skeezix 1065, USCDiver 1098 ShadowFacts - Hirka T’Bawa 885, Askthepizzaguy 1030, Red Skeezix 1065, Normal Phase 1080, Hirka T’Bawa 1091, TexCat 1192, TexCat 1192 choie - Askthepizzaguy 905 988, Weedy 923 1205, Normal Phase 1047 pedescribe - Weedy 923 1044 Normal Phase - choie 930, septimus 1009 1121, ShadowFacts 1090 1195 MentalGuy - gnarlycharlie 959 gnarlycharlie - MentalGuy 968 Stanislaus - Askthepizzaguy 988 1067 TexCat - Askthepizzaguy 988 1030, Normal Phase 1007, Suburban Plankton 1014, septimus 1023, Weedy 1044, LightFoot 1109, Suburban Plankton 1167, septimus 1178, ShadowFacts 1195, ShadowFacts 1195, Weedy 1205, Inner Stickler 1210, Inner Stickler 1210 Suburban Plankton - TexCat 1018, Askthepizzaguy 1067 1175 Askthepizzaguy - septimus 1121 ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2304 "2011-08-15T13:18:06Z")
God damn, reading this thread again is getting me\*\*\* hopping mad \*\*\*at the folks I’m accusing today. I wish I had vig powers. Oh boy do I wish I had vig powers. I’m up to choie’s 1571. Here’s what I found out so far: [SPOILER]choie [ul] [li] choie didn’t like me voting for \*\*Koldanar \*\*day one AT ALL.[/li][li] She voted **Silver Jan to lock** after Jan voted for **Koldanar**.[/li][li] Conversation with \*\*Stanislaus \*\*feels genuine, aka the kind a scum is not having with a teammate, staged for our benefit. Again, Stan feels town, choie feels scum.[/li][li] She votes for **Silver** , for **Normal Phase** [/li][li] Thanks \*\*septimus \*\*for “good advice, assuming you’re not scum”.[/li][li] Top suspects by page 4: **Kelly, Normal, Silver Jan** , finds \*\*Pizza \*\*frustrating[/li][li] bothered that others find **septimus scummy for his end day move. Agrees with Suburban Plankton’s criticism of Pizza.[/li][li] Weedy votes choie, SP votes choie, Normal votes choie.[/li][li] Choie votes NP again, Later, she votes Lightfoot.[/li][li] Asks not to be blocked at night. Defends SP, ShadowFacts**, and wonders why \*\*Red \*\*isn’t my top suspect.[/li][/ul] So, stance towards **Hirka/koldanar** = for gods sakes, don’t lynch this one. stance towards townies **Kelly, Silver, Pizza, Lightfoot** = lynch these people. Stance towards \*\*septimus \*\*= why is this guy scummy? Stance towards **MentalGuy** , \*\*Diver \*\*= not much mention. **Weedy, Pizza, Suburban, Normal** all wanted to lynch \*\*choie \*\*at one point. septimus never wanted choie dead, nor did Diver, or Koldanar/Hirka. Here’s what I found out about Hirka T’Bawa: Koldanar- [ul] [li]Thinks \*\*Shadow \*\*or \*\*Stanislaus \*\*are scum.[/li][li]Votes **Askthepizzaguy** [/li][li]\*\*MentalGuy \*\*wants him dead. **Romanic** /\*\*Weedy \*\*does too. \*\*Scathach \*\*and **Silver** did as well, all voted for him. \*\*Pizza \*\*voted for him. \*\*Lightfoot \*\*votes for him. He drops from the game.[/li][/ul] Of course, not everyone thought he was a great suspect. Like **choie** , for example. Or **septimus**. :rolleyes: Hirka T’Bawa- > [@](#): > > **Silver Jan (6):** specialed, Choie, Suburban Plankton, Red Skeezix, Inner Stickler, Weedy > \*\*Askthepizzaguy \*\*(4): pedescribe, pedescribe, Spetimus, USCDiver > \*\*Septimus \*\*(4): Askthepizzaguy, Askthepizzaguy, Normal Phase, special ed > \*\*special ed \*\*(3): Silver Jan, Silver Jan, Texcat > ShadowFacts (1): Normal Phase > Normal Phase (2): Choie, gnarlycharlie > Hirka T’Bawa (replacing Koldanar) (2): Mental Guy, LightFoot > MentalGuy (1): Stanislaus > gnarlycharlie (1): Mental Guy > TexCat (1): Suburban Plankton > USCDiver (1): gnarlycharlie > pedescribe (1): ShadowFacts > SilverJan is currently up for the lynch. 820 Vote ShadowFacts 826 Vote ShadowFacts [ul] [li]Hirka wants \*\*ShadowFacts \*\*dead early[/li][li]After \*\*septimus \*\*self-saves, he votes \*\*septimus \*\*and **ShadowFacts**.[/li][li]excuses his absence for a long while.[/li][li] **Unvotes septimus, votes Shadow.** [/li][li]"So, if **septimus** , and **ShadowFacts are telling the truth on their claims (which for now I believe), that doesn’t leave me much in the way of scum suspects."[/li][li]Votes for Red Skeezix**, presses harder on **Skeezix** [/li][li]Asks \*\*Shadow \*\*to use his power. thinks \*\*Shadow \*\*is telling the truth[/li][li] **Shows up from his phone to place a vote for Red Skeezix. Alternate lynch was septimus.** [/li][/ul] So, stance towards **choie = no opinion really. Stance towards Shadow, Stanislaus, Askthepizzaguy, Red Skeezix**, etc, is for them to die. Stance towards \*\*septimus \*\*= I want to save this guy from death **MentalGuy** , **Weedy** , **Scathach** , **Silver Jan,** **Pizza** , \*\*Lightfoot \*\*all wanted to lynch this guy at one point. septimus never wanted Hirka/Koldanar dead, nor did choie really press for him, nor did Diver. However, several living folks did indeed vote for him and wanted him to die. USCDiver- [ul] [li]Voted **Kelly** , **Jan** , while \*\*Koldanar \*\*was a candidate. Made no difference between the two, but made a difference between Koldanar and the other two.[/li][li]Votes **Pizza** , “for obvious reasons.”[/li][li]\*\*Gnarly \*\*voted Diver.[/li][li]Urges \*\*Jan \*\*to make a case on someone else when \*\*septimus \*\*is tied at 4 votes with \*\*pizza \*\*and **Jan**.[/li][li]766 “Once you’ve done everything you can to defend yourself, the best way to avoid being lynched is to make a better case for someone else.”[/li][li]\*\*Lightfoot \*\*votes **Diver**.[/li][li]Doesn’t participate for a while.[/li][li]Votes \*\*septimus \*\*(1 vote) late in the round. This vote is not decisive.[/li][li]Votes \*\*skeezix \*\*and \*\*pizza \*\*next day.[/li][li]\*\*Normal \*\*and \*\*Pizza \*\*vote **Diver**.[/li][li]Pizza’s **case on septimus = TL;DR** [/li][li]\*\*Mental \*\*says he doesn’t trust Diver.[/li][li] **Locks on Red Skeezix** , fails to spare **septimus**. This is the same round that Hirka also votes for Red Skeezix, and fails to spare septimus, when Hirka posted from the phone to try to do that.[/li][li]\*\*Lightfoot \*\*votes **Diver**.[/li][li]"Also, can someone now explain to me in very simple terms, preferably less than 10 lines, **how septimus being scum makes it less likely that RedSkeezix is scum?"** [/li][li]Still insists on going for **Red Skeezix** after septimus flips.[/li][li]“I was under the impression that there was some convoluted reasoning at the end of the Day that it was unlikely for both septimus and RedSkeezix to be Scum but I don’t understand the connection.”[/li][/ul] Stance towards **Hirka/Koldanar** = I’d rather vote for Jan or Kelly. No comment today. Stance towards \*\*septimus \*\*= Jan, please vote for someone (how about ATPG?) Followed by “I’ll place 1 vote on him, while septimus is planning to double-vote his way to freedom” Followed by I’ll double vote Skeezix and go for skeezix only for the remainder. Stance towards \*\*choie \*\*= no suspicion. No comment. \*\*Gnarly, Mental, Lightfoot, Normal, Pizza \*\*all like to vote for Diver, though apparently not at the same time. 😃 septimus never did want Diver dead. choie never wanted Diver dead. Hirka never wanted Diver dead. MentalGuy- [ul] [li] **Unvoted Silver Jan when Jan and Koldanar were contenders.** [/li][li]Votes \*\*Gnarly \*\*and **Koldanar** [/li][li]No defense of \*\*Pizza \*\*or **Silver Jan** , thinks \*\*SP \*\*was scummy.[/li][li]\*\*Stan voted him. \*\*[/li][li]Flips, thinks \*\*Pizza \*\*is town.[/li][li]Doesn’t buy pizza case on **choie** , wants to re-read it.[/li][li]Didn’t agree with \*\*septimus \*\*as scum at first, until his self-save.[/li][li]Thought \*\*TexCat \*\*and \*\*Stan \*\*were suspect.[/li][li]Is not convinced on \*\*choie \*\*after a re-read.[/li][li]More suspect on \*\*Suburban \*\*and **Weedy**.[/li][li]\*\*Normal \*\*FOS mentalguy, wants \*\*pizza \*\*to look at MentalGuy[/li][li]Mental votes \*\*septimus \*\*early, before the wagon truly takes off.[/li][/ul] Stance towards Koldanar- I want this guy dead. Stance towards choie- not really suspicious Stance towards Diver- nothing yet Stance towards septimus- Yeah, lynch him! Stan, Normal Phase went after him. Suspicion on septimus and Koldanar make me believe he’s not scum with either one. septimus- [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14016998&postcount=248](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14016998&postcount=248) “Then he moves his move to Koldanar, with some argument that he doesn’t like to follow bandwagons. And yet, the only reason given (“Looking at who others found worthy of a vote”) for choosing Koldanar as a Lynch candidate is a Bandwagon (of FOS). Vote: Askthepizzaguy” Flinches when Pizza votes for Koldanar, on agreement with others’ suspicion on Koldanar. Pizza double-votes septimus. 572 I liked the post by choie. This kind of frank discussion of feelings is what has helped Townies identify fellow Townies in the games I’ve played. For your comments, here’s what I’ve learned about scum-hunting: Vote: AskthePizzaGuy Page 4 Normal votes septimus Ed votes septimus 799 I’ll leave one vote on Pizza for now, but hope to get a large block of time for study later. Normal locks septimus Ed locks septimus septimus locks Silver Jan \*“Somebody should vig this guy.” ( **Red** , 841) I’m a bit disturbed by all the last minute voting, and Septimus’s timing being held against him. ( **weedy** ) “Well there’s a shocker of a death. vote: Septimus” ( **Normal** ) Vote Septimus ( **Inner** ) We shouldn’t need to ask for a role claim vote septimus ( **Stan** ) But anyway, answer ATPG’s question. ( **Normal** ) “Let’s keep hunting for real scum” makes my nose twitch, Septimus. Just so you know. ( **Normal** ) Vote Septimus ( **Gnarly** ) vote septimus ( **Mental** ) \* Page 6 Right now my number one suspect is Normal Phase. **Vote: Normal Phase** 1121 This is the last straw. \*\*Unvote: Normal Phase Vote: Askthepizzaguy \*\* Page 7 **Vote: Red Skeezix** Despite this, I think some WIFOM’ing is going on. Something that strikes me is this: If Pizza and Shadow are both Town, would Scum have targeted Shadow before Pizza? I’d definitely think just the opposite, but want to hear from experienced players. If my line of thought is correct, we may have a good handle on a second Scum: Vote: Askthepizzaguy _**vote Septimus (Red)**_ Page 8 _**vote septimus (Pizza) vote septimus (Stan)**_ \*\*\*unvote: USCDiver vote: Septimus Another one for the pile. One suspicious post isn’t enough at this stage of the game; it’s a pointless vote right at the moment. unvote: ShadowFacts vote: Mental Guy (Normal) * * * Mental votes septimus (Mental) vote septimus (Skeezix) vote septimus (Stan) unvote Red Skeezix vote septimus vote septimus (Weedy) * * * Unvote: AskthePizzaGuy **Vote: Red Skeezix** _**vote Septimus (SP)**_ _**With the triad and the debates I’ve been able to absorb I will add my voice and Vote septimus (Lightfoot)**_ Summary: Stance toward \*\*Koldanar \*\*= How dare you vote for him based on other people’s suspicion! I will vote for you now, Pizza! Stance toward \*\*choie \*\*= I like your posts. Stance toward **Normal Phase, Red Skeezix** = DIE DIE DIE Who wanted him dead: Lots of folks after he self-saved. Who didn’t want him dead? \*\*choie \*\*didn’t understand why he was scummy. \*\*Diver \*\*wanted Silver Jan to decide the tie between herself, Pizza, and septimus. I wonder on whom? \*\*Koldanar \*\*didn’t want him dead. Hirka T’Bawa saved him repeatedly, or tried to. \*\*MentalGuy \*\*wanted him dead. \*\*MentalGuy \*\*also wanted Koldanar dead. Lots of now-proven townies wanted him dead.[/SPOILER] I want \*\*choie \*\*and **Diver and Hirka T’Bawa** to die. No more kid gloves with these suspects, THEY ALL HAVE STRONG TIES TO \*\*SEPTIMUS \*\*AND ARE ALL SNUGGLING **EACH OTHER.** I want MentalGuy to be left alone for now, too, sorry Normal Phase. choie and Diver and Hirka all wanted Red Skeezix to die. How much you wanna bet Red is mafia now? ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2305 "2011-08-15T13:19:33Z")
> [@USCDiver](#): > > No preference, because I have no read on either. If you’d like to try to convince me, a Cliff’s notes version of the cases would be welcome. No, Mister [del]Bond[/del] Diver. I’d like you to die. Or you should start developing a read, **rapidly**. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2306 "2011-08-15T13:31:07Z")
Need post 2303 redone with the [del] tags if possible, Normal Phase my friend. Pretty, pretty pweese. I wuv you. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2307 "2011-08-15T13:41:49Z")
One correction and one quibble about Mental Guy. He did not vote Septimus early on day three. He was fifth on the bandwagon, sixth if you count my vote and unvote. His vote itself was lukewarm (on technical grounds) and neither doubled (he came in at end of day when it was too late) nor retracted (after Inner and Shadow pointed out his reasoning was suspect). So to say “wants Septimus dead” is just a wee bit overstated, and I’m being a bit generous with that. What was Hirka’s rationale for his unvote of Septimus in post 1091, adn what was the vote count at that time? All in all I think that bussing Septimus would have been the in thing to do on that day among the scum, whether it was Hirka and Diver, Hirka and Red, Mental and Red, Mental and Diver, or whatever. > [@](#): > > septimus - Hirka T’Bawa 885 1091, Normal Phase 887 947, Inner Stickler 888, Stanislaus 893, gnarlycharlie 959, MentalGuy 968, Red Skeezix 1065, USCDiver 1098 Going back to read the section on Septimus now. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2308 "2011-08-15T13:49:54Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > One correction and one quibble about Mental Guy. He did not vote Septimus early on day three. He was fifth on the bandwagon, sixth if you count my vote and unvote. Yes, but the wagon on Red Skeezix was bigger. In other words, he was pushing the smaller wagon against the bigger wagon, iirc. That’s what I mean by early. Example: Voting for septimus after he’s already the leader is not as townie as voting him early. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2309 "2011-08-15T13:51:47Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > Think this is right: > > Red Skeezix (7): **ShadowFacts [1258]**, Hirka T’Bawa [1260], Septimus [1276], USCDiver [1280], Stanislaus [1282], Weedy [1311], [del]Suburban Plankton [/del][1320-1400], **ShadowFacts [1416]** > Septimus (5): Red Skeezix [1295], **Askthepizzaguy [1429]**, Stanislaus [1438], **Askthepizzaguy [1444]**, Normal Phase [1447] > Askthepizzaguy (3): Septimus [1276], USCDiver [1280], Suburban Plankton [1393] > ShadowFacts (3): [del]Askthepizzaguy[/del] [1265-1429], Normal Phase [1291], Red Skeezix [1295], gnarlycharlie [1404], > Mental Guy (1): Normal Phase [1447] > Lightfoot (1): choie [1406] > USCDiver (0): [del]Askthepizzaguy[/del] [1289-1412], [del]Normal Phase[/del] [1292-1447] > Suburban Plankton (0): [del]Askthepizzaguy[/del] [1412-1444] > [@MentalGuy](#): > > And I meant > > **Vote septimus** While Mental’s vote isn’t as strong as I’d like, he puts septimus closer to death against Red Skeezix, the larger wagon. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2310 "2011-08-15T13:52:58Z")
I’m also still having problems with the Red-not-scum part of this equation. I mean, look at this: > [@](#): > > Vote: Red Skeezix > Despite this, I think some WIFOM’ing is going on. Something that strikes me is this: If Pizza and Shadow are both Town, would Scum have targeted Shadow before Pizza? I’d definitely think just the opposite, but want to hear from experienced players. > If my line of thought is correct, we may have a good handle on a second Scum: > Vote: Askthepizzaguy Votes the guy who’s been caught in the act or seems to have been, depending. Then – in the same breath – makes an argument that scum would not have targeted Shadow at all unless Pizza is also scum (that is, scum would have attacked Pizza before Shadow, absent a reason not to). Just look at this mess of illogic. What is its purpose? At this point, Red is going to be lynched, no question about it. He’s gone, he’s toast, he’s dead. What is scum Septimus trying to accomplish here? If Red is TOWN … nothing. Can’t make sense of it in the least. If Red is SCUM – setting up Pizza for the fall next, for having the audacity to not get attacked the previous night. Septimus does the same exact thing again later, with Shadowfacts, as I’ve pointed out previously, making an argument whose gist seemed to be that if Red is scum, Shadowfacts might be too. Why does he even bother opening his mouth in these two ways, if he doesn’t know that Red is going to flip scum? ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2311 "2011-08-15T13:54:17Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > Yes, but the wagon on Red Skeezix was bigger. In other words, he was pushing the smaller wagon against the bigger wagon, iirc. > > That’s what I mean by early. Example: Voting for septimus after he’s already the leader is not as townie as voting him early. You’re talking day four, not day three? Ok, I don’t have votes for that yet, obvsiously. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2312 "2011-08-15T13:58:05Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > While Mental’s vote isn’t as strong as I’d like, he puts septimus closer to death against Red Skeezix, the larger wagon. He does indeed, and the reasoning in the post above it isn’t suspect in any obvious way, either. Certainly not like day three. I’ll give you this, I’m a lot closer to 50-50 on Hirka vs Mental Guy than I was a day ago. ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2313 "2011-08-15T14:01:57Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > No, Mister [del]Bond[/del] Diver. I’d like you to die. > > Or you should start developing a read, **rapidly**. Don’t tell me how to play the game. You play it your way, and I’ll play it mine. As far as I can tell, your ‘case’ against me is that I’m suspicious of a player you believe to be Town (Red) and the other players that you think are Scum have not been suspecting me. That’s rock solid :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2314 "2011-08-15T14:03:42Z")
- What was Hirka’s rationale for his unvote of Septimus in post 1091, adn what was the vote count at that time?\* Here it is. > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > \*\*Septimus \*\*(6): Hirka T’Bawa [885], Inner Stickler [888], Stanislaus [893], gnarlycharlie [959], Mental Guy [968], Red Skeezix [1065] > \*\*TexCat \*\*(5): Normal Phase [1007], Suburban Plankton [1014], Septimus [1023] > \*\*ShadowFacts \*\*(3): Hirka T’Bawa [885], Askthepizzaguy [1030], Red Skeezix [1065] > **Suburban Plankton** (2): TexCat [1018], Weedy [1044] > \*\*Choie \*\*(2): Weedy [923], Normal Phase [1047] > **Normal Phase** (2): Choie [930], Septimus [1009] > **Mental Guy** (1): gnarlycharlie [959] > \*\*gnarlycharlie \*\*(1): Mental Guy [968] > \*\*Stanislaus \*\*(1): Askthepizzaguy [988] > > With these votes, Septimus would be lynched. Day ends tomorrow, July 28th at **5 pm central time.** As always, please check for errors. A couple of relatively meaningless vote switches later, [QUOTE=pizza] unvote: stanislaus Though, I actually place him higher presently than vote: Suburban Plankton [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Normal] I suspect ShadowFacts more than choie (or at least for longer), so unvote choie vote: ShadowFacts [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Stanislaus] Vote Normal Phase [/QUOTE] > [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](#): > > About to leave to take my boards, I will be in the test at end of day, so this will probably be my last post toDay. > > I’ve been thinking about my vote for **septimus** , if he is being truthful with his claim, then his actions last night make a sort of sense. Since his actions are the main reason I voted for him, I think I’m going to give him the benefit of the doubt (for now). > > **Unvote Septimus** > > I haven’t had time to really review the case against **Texcat** , but she didn’t seem that scummy to me when I was actually reading her posts, so I don’t feel comfortable voting for her right now. > > However, nothing so far has made me doubt the case against **ShadowFacts** , I still think he is most likely scum, and probably the most likely of the top three lynch candidates. Since I won’t be here later, there is no harm in me locking in my votes, so: > > **Vote ShadowFacts** > > Just a note, I believe this makes a three way tie between **Septimus** , **Texcat** , and **ShadowFacts**. I believe there is 7 hours left to End of Day… > > What is the tie policy in this game? > > Go town, I’ll be back after nightfall after I finish my test. That was the full context. The timing is clear, this is a vote to spare septimus. That’s what this is. Does it make him scum in and of itself? No… But we’ve lynched folks for less. And we have much, much more. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2315 "2011-08-15T14:09:30Z")
> [@USCDiver](#): > > Don’t tell me how to play the game. You play it your way, and I’ll play it mine. > > As far as I can tell, your ‘case’ against me is that I’m suspicious of a player you believe to be Town (Red) and the other players that you think are Scum have not been suspecting me. That’s rock solid :rolleyes: Yeah, and I’m sure your cases on me were MUCH better. What’s rock solid is your insistence on not reading any post longer that 10 lines, splitting your vote between Jan and Kelly so as to make sure either of them are lynched over Koldanar, disappearing for hundreds of posts at a time, that it " requires a leap of faith that the Scum missed a kill AND the Vig was blocked." when we know there is a claimed paranoid doctor in the game and DEAD TOWNIES who have reported being blocked at the same time as Lightfoot. What’s rock solid is that you have no opinion on anyone but Red Skeezix, \*as far as I can tell. \* Why don’t you tell me who his scumbag teammates are. ME? ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2316 "2011-08-15T14:13:15Z")
Once more with strike-throughs. Day 1 RedSkeezix - [del]Askthepizzaguy 137 225[/del] Tom Scud/Diver - [del]Normal Phase 140 196[/del] choie - [del]pedescribe 150 184[/del] pedescribe - [del]Stanislaus 159 204[/del], Silver Jan 382 special ed - [del]Suburban Plankton[/del][del] 169 277[/del], [del]special ed 372 436[/del] Kelly Criterion - [del]Normal Phase 196 338[/del], [del]ShadowFacts[/del][del] 203 360[/del], Stanislaus 204, MentalGuy 217, choie 247, Silver Jan 285, Scathach 293, Special Ed 295, TexCat 315, Suburban Plankton 342, LightFoot 361, Normal Phase 397, USCDiver 432, special ed 449 Koldanar/Hirka - [del]Scathach [/del][del]211 293[/del], Askthepizzaguy 225, MentalGuy 319, Romanic/Weedy 363, Scathach 411, Silver Jan 416 Normal Phase - KellyCriterion 213, [del]Silver Jan[/del][del] 227 274[/del] Askthepizzaguy - gnarlycharlie 228, Koldanar/Hirka 238, septimus 248 Silver Jan - Red Skeezix 233, ShadowFacts 360, pedescribe 369, choie 419, [del]MentalGuy 429 431[/del], USCDiver 432, Suburban Plankton 433 Romanic/Weedy - [del]Silver Jan 324 366[/del] septimus - Normal Phase 338, [del]special ed[/del][del] 371 372[/del] Suburban Plankton - [del]special ed[/del][del] 436 449[/del] Day 2 septimus - Askthepizzaguy 488, Askthepizzaguy 528, Normal Phase 658, special ed 680, Normal Phase 829, special ed 832 ShadowFacts - [del]Normal Phase 490 829[/del], [del]Red Skeezix 601 790[/del], Hirka T’Bawa 820, Hirka T’Bawa 826 special ed - [del]Stanislaus 531 591[/del], Silver Jan 721, Silver Jan 752, [del]Weedy 761 773[/del], TexCat 783 gnarlycharlie - MentalGuy 542, [del]Normal Phase 543 658[/del] Koldanar/Hirka - MentalGuy 542 Normal Phase - [del]special ed[/del][del] 544 680[/del], choie 566, gnarlycharlie 649, ShadowFacts 812 Askthepizzaguy - special ed 544, pedescribe 553, pedescribe 553, [del]septimus[/del][del] 572 838[/del], [del]Weedy 611 740[/del], USCDiver 628 Silver Jan - choie 566, ShadowFacts 575, [del]special ed 588 832[/del], Suburban Plankton 595, Red Skeezix 601, Inner Stickler 610, Weedy 791, septimus 838, septimus 838 choie - Silver Jan 569, [del]Suburban Plankton[/del][del] 595 722[/del] Koldanar/Hirka - LightFoot 597 USCDiver - gnarlycharlie 649, LightFoot 821 MentalGuy - Stanislaus 659 TexCat - Suburban Plankton 722 pedescribe - ShadowFacts 770 Day 3, septimus - [del]Hirka T’Bawa 885 1091[/del], [del]Normal Phase 887 947[/del], Inner Stickler 888, Stanislaus 893, gnarlycharlie 959, MentalGuy 968, Red Skeezix 1065, USCDiver 1098 ShadowFacts - Hirka T’Bawa 885, Askthepizzaguy 1030, Red Skeezix 1065, Normal Phase 1080, Hirka T’Bawa 1091, TexCat 1192, TexCat 1192 choie - [del]Askthepizzaguy[/del][del] 905 988[/del], [del]Weedy 923 1205[/del], Normal Phase 1047 pedescribe - [del]Weedy 923 1044[/del] Normal Phase - choie 930, [del]septimus[/del][del] 1009 1121[/del], [del]ShadowFacts 1090 1195[/del] MentalGuy - gnarlycharlie 959 gnarlycharlie - MentalGuy 968 Stanislaus - [del]Askthepizzaguy[/del][del] 988 1067[/del] TexCat - [del]Askthepizzaguy[/del][del] 988 1030[/del], Normal Phase 1007, Suburban Plankton 1014, septimus 1023, Weedy 1044, LightFoot 1109, Suburban Plankton 1167, septimus 1178, ShadowFacts 1195, ShadowFacts 1195, Weedy 1205, Inner Stickler 1210, Inner Stickler 1210 Suburban Plankton - TexCat 1018, [del]Askthepizzaguy[/del][del] 1067 1175[/del] Askthepizzaguy - septimus 1121 ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2317 "2011-08-15T14:22:57Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > - What was Hirka’s rationale for his unvote of Septimus in post 1091, adn what was the vote count at that time?\* > > Here it is. > > A couple of relatively meaningless vote switches later, > > That was the full context. > > The timing is clear, this is a vote to spare septimus. That’s what this is. Does it make him scum in and of itself? No… > > But we’ve lynched folks for less. And we have much, much more. Minor note that the vote count there is in error; Hirka’s vote moved it from 6 Septimus/4 Shadow to 5 each (TexCat was only at three). ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2318 "2011-08-15T15:22:31Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > Yeah, and I’m sure your cases on me were MUCH better. > > What’s rock solid is your insistence on not reading any post longer that 10 lines, splitting your vote between Jan and Kelly so as to make sure either of them are lynched over Koldanar, disappearing for hundreds of posts at a time, that it " requires a leap of faith that the Scum missed a kill AND the Vig was blocked." when we know there is a claimed paranoid doctor in the game and DEAD TOWNIES who have reported being blocked at the same time as Lightfoot. > > What’s rock solid is that you have no opinion on anyone but Red Skeezix, \*as far as I can tell. > \* > Why don’t you tell me who his scumbag teammates are. > > ME? Holy Shit!! A coherent case made in 2 lines! It’s a Christmas miracle! It’s crap, of course, but at least it’s understandable. Shall I refute? My split vote on Jan/Kelly was after my late Day 1 substitution. As Vanilla Townie, I was trying to get the Scum to think I was a power role looking to level up. I have a real life, I sometimes don’t get to check the thread very day and when I do, I often don’t have much to add. I’m not going to post simply for the sake of posting. At the time I felt that the ‘leap of faith’ was required, we didn’t know there was a Paranoid doctor. I’m not sure I understand your last point… I assume the Scum have a roleblocker. We know it wasn’t **Shadow** … so what do you think happened on Night 3 when there was no Scum Night Kill? \*\*Shadow \*\*AND the scum roleblocker both blocked **Red**? Scum and \*\*Inner \*\*both blocked **Lightfoot**? Who the hell stopped the Scum Kill?? ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2319 "2011-08-15T16:55:32Z")
Well, since everyone will now be ignoring my posts, I guess there’s no point to posting. But anyway, I am sorry to **Askthepizzaguy** for everything I ever said that insulted him. I shouldn’t have taken things personally and I shouldn’t have expressed my frustrations with your gameplay. I wasn’t trying to tell people to disregard everything he was saying, but to stop letting him dictate conversations, which is what I think he’s been doing, and which I think is harmful to town. I didn’t think I was the only one who was frustrated, but obviously I am misreading everything and everyone, which is why I’m so patently ill-suited to this game. I can’t be_lieve_ I’ve become one of the types who so annoyed me while reading through old threads. I should’a stuck to Botticelli, or maybe just stayed in Cafe Society! 🙂 BTW to answer the question re: the line in my PM, that seems to happen when you copy a message by marking the whole text (rather than replying or quoting). I didn’t bother deleting it. Oh, I just looked at the HTML. The reason is that there’s a hidden horizontal line beneath the subject line (in this case, “Your character sheet”) and the body of the message. For HTML-savvy nerds like me the code is: ```auto
``` This horizontal line is translated as a dash when you copy/paste. Which oughtta prove something about my character sheet being kosher, but I’m sure it won’t. Maybe someone will say that the rabbit hole of evil of which I’m a part clearly goes back pretty far – Tim Berners-Lee and the W3 Consortium were all conspiring with me and the rest of the Lords of Slaughter. 🙂 Anyway, no one’s reading this since I’ve been declared an UnPerson. But that’s all I guess. I committed to the game so I’ll still be around for Wednesday’s and other Dusk votes, at least unless/until I’m dead one way or another, but since I’m unofficially of the Untouchable Caste there’s not much point in adding to the discussion, especially since my comments aren’t helping. I definitely don’t want to be a distraction – hell, that’s exactly what I’ve been railing against, so I guess it’s true: you _do_ become the thing you hate. Sorry again. To paraphrase Doris Day, “Love me or lynch me, and let me be lonely.” Oops edited to add: for the record, I think the remaining scum are **Red** , **Hirka** , **Normal** (I think she’s playing deep) and either **pedescribe** or **Stanislaus**. The latter is only in there 'cause I like his posts so much. I’m at the point where I’m gonna assume my instincts are totally wrong, so probably **Stanislaus** is like the uber-evil type. ---
**Author:** ![MentalGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/439d5e/32.png) [@MentalGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MentalGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2011, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2320 "2011-08-16T03:07:47Z")
I apologize to everyone for my almost disappearance. I am never a high-volume poster, but I was keeping up with the game pretty well until about August 5th. Since then, I have been doing good just to keep up with the reading, let alone going back and reviewing things. I thought I would have a chance Saturday, and started rereading the thread, but only got about a sixth of the way through. It did remind me of my suspicions on Koldanar at the beginning of the game and I want to look more closely at Hirka. I do think that the fact that Scathach was the first kill might have some significance. I agree that Red Skeezix should be the lynch for toDay. **Vote Red Skeezix** As far as the other suspects, I think ATPG’s suggestions of Hirka, Diver, and choie are reasonable, and tend to fit into my feeling that the scum were just kind of sitting back and watching the Town form a circular firing squad. That said, I don’t want to rule out the other players. I am afraid in particular that Normal might be playing a very slick scum game. I admit that I am probably biased since I know she made an incorrect case on me, but I also know she helped lynch Kelly and helped drive the case on TexCat. Her votes for septimus are good evidence of her towniness, but I think she is a confident enough player to bus her godfather teammate out of the gate knowing the cred it would get her (I don’t think I have ever played in a game where Normal was scum, though, so I am just basing that on her play in general). Normal, I unvoted Kelly on Day 1. I forgot to include the unvote post number in my vote summary, so that is probably why it did not get struck through. Well, I am going to try to review Hirka now and hopefully by the end of toMorrow I will have had time to look at some of the others. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052.md?page=115) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052.md?page=117)