# De'endee Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [July 6, 2011, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052 "2011-07-06T16:30:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 129
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2011, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2563 "2011-08-21T21:27:03Z")
I have unexpected time problems, none whatsoever now and probably none tomorrow either. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2011, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2564 "2011-08-21T21:28:31Z")
NETA: That leaves me trying to get a full Day’s participation in in two games in a single RL day – needless to say that is probably not going to work very well. Townies please do as much work considering all candidates as you can. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![gnarlycharlie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@gnarlycharlie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarlycharlie)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2011, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2565 "2011-08-21T22:18:57Z")
> [@choie](#): > > Erm… yes? > > I’m sorry, is this really such a strange reason to find someone relatively trustworthy? Isn’t it only human and rational to trust someone who agrees with you on who’s townie and who’s scum, and who has a good voting record, and who doesn’t do anything you find hugely suspicious? At least you’d _lean in that direction_, wouldn’t you? That’s all I’m saying. He’s definitely a candidate because I do think there’s a case that can be made against him, but over all my instincts are pulling me in a different direction. > > Perhaps there’s some other algorithm others use, but for me, I don’t think this is off-the-charts bizarre logic. God knows I was wrong on whom to trust before (a ghostly spectral Beguiler’s voice whispers in my ear _ **septimus, septimus, septimus…** _) and I cop to that wholly and forthrightly. > > You mention **pizza** ’s record as a defense. Let me tell you this: if **pizza** hadn’t been scanned and proven townie? The way he was pushing for **Inner** , **Suburban** and (earlier) **ShadowFacts** to be lynched over **Red Skeezix** – not to mention going after another person I know is innocent (me) – you’re damn right I’d’ve believed him to be scum. And i don’t think that would have been an unfair judgment. I think he was damn lucky to have been scanned or he’d’ve been lynched by now, or probably toDay. > > (Although he ended up dead anyway, alas, so I guess in the end worm food is worm food. But at least his gravesite will be among the honored dead, instead of out in the desert beyond De’endee where the buzzards and vultures roam.) > > “Yup,” **choie** replied with cheerful honesty. Because I started analyzing for realsies after I made my chart and analyzed the votes. I’ve said that several times now. I have to admit I’ve found it difficult to keep up with who voted for whom, and when, during the game. Using a different method to examine the votes helped me greatly. Again, this isn’t a strange secret, it’s something I’ve been admitting for three or four (real life) days. _Do_ keep up, there’s a good lad. 🙂 > > What _I_ find interesting is that you aren’t making any cases for whom you find guilty other than me. Now, I already asked this question up above, but you didn’t want to pay attention to it, perhaps 'cause I’m so wordy (or perhaps because you’d rather waste time making me look bad – depends on how charitable our audience is feeling towards you): > > Okay, fine, assume I’m scum – so who’s your fourth and final Lord of Slaughter? You don’t seem to find **Hirka** guilty, so who’s next? > > (P.S. of _course_ I used the word “snuggling” right after you did – that was me pointing the finger right back atcha, hence the snarky line “which is apparently called snuggling,” duh!) yes, it’s natural for a person to trust someone who agrees with you but this is mafia. it’s just not enough for me. i use **pizza** as an example but he’s not the only one who’s been wrong in this game or in other games. he’s a convenient choice. now, if he weren’t scanned and he was lynched, he’d still be wrong AND town. personally, a person who was 95% right would be very suspicious (unless you’re BillMC). i’ll have to check on your posts about your suspicions of me since you haven’t made any links to them. of course you didn’t say you would. next, we use snuggling differently hence i find it interesting. as i said, you were very consoling, almost patronizing. finally, the 4th scum would be you. if you haven’t noticed i’ve voted already.😉 ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2566 "2011-08-22T02:38:34Z")
> [@gnarlycharlie](#): > > yes, it’s natural for a person to trust someone who agrees with you but this is mafia. it’s just not enough for me. That’s finearino. You vote your way, I’ll vote mine. I’m glad you agree it’s natural, that’s at least _some_ concession. > [@](#): > > i use **pizza** as an example but he’s not the only one who’s been wrong in this game or in other games. he’s a convenient choice. now, if he weren’t scanned and he was lynched, he’d still be wrong AND town. personally, a person who was 95% right would be very suspicious (unless you’re BillMC). It’s not just that you’ve been wrong almost all the time (at least, in my opinion). I’m not too big a fan of your actions right now, either. 😃 > [@](#): > > i’ll have to check on your posts about your suspicions of me since you haven’t made any links to them. of course you didn’t say you would. Of course you didn’t ask me to, so why should I have? My first suspicion of you is mentioned [here in post #2253](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14136574&postcount=2253), early in the morning of August 14 – only five hours into Day 6, before there was a choiewagon. **Red** was in the lead, and there _was not a single vote on me_ at the time. This was before I’d started really analyzing posts in depth a few days later with my chart, which only confirmed my suspicions of you. My suspicion of **Hirka** began after reading **pizza** ’s convincing argument, after which I thought “hmm, maybe **Hirka** is scum after all.” Then I did my chart, which made me even more suspicious. Finally came **Hirka** ’s IMO opportunistic switch from me to a double-vote of **Red** allegedly just to “remove a distraction,” even though **Hirka** actually claimed **Red** was probably innocent. _THAT_ move turned me from a “eh, kinda suspicious of **Hirka** ” to a “hell yes **Hirka** is almost certainly scum.” > [@](#): > > finally, the 4th scum would be you. if you haven’t noticed i’ve voted already.😉 Oh whoops, you’re right. I saw that you’d voted for me already, but I didn’t notice that you’d also voted for **Hirka**. Sorry about that. Okay, let’s switch it around then. Let’s say I’m lynched and then I flip town. (As I will.) Who’s your next choice? ---
**Author:** ![Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/db5fbb/32.png) [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hirka_T_Bawa)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2567 "2011-08-22T05:09:22Z")
Since I’m on vacation, I haven’t had time to do much research, but looking at the cases made by everyone, while discounting the ones that assume I’m scum (since I’m not), I’m thinking the case against USCDiver to be the most convincing. \*\* vote uscdiver Vote uscdiver \*\* I doubled voted because I don’t know how much time I’ll have for the rest of the day. So wanted to go ahead and lock in. While it looks like I might be lynched, I do ask everyone to list who your second choices might be, so we can at least get some info out of this day when I flip town. ---
**Author:** ![Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/db5fbb/32.png) [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hirka_T_Bawa)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2568 "2011-08-22T05:22:00Z")
Damn phone… \*\* vote uscdiver Vote uscdiver \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2569 "2011-08-22T05:23:39Z")
Frog blast the vent core! Er, I mean, Vote Count! Hirka T’Bawa (5): Normal Phase [2545], Choie [2546], gnarlycharlie [2547], USCDiver [2554], Weedy [2555] USCDiver (2): Hirka T’Bawa [2565], Hirka T’Bawa [2565] Choie (1): gnarlycharlie [2547] With these votes, Hirka T’Bawa would be lynched. Remember, Day ends on Tuesday at 5 pm. I’ve noticed a certain slowness to this game of late. Are Days too long? Would you guys prefer me to shorten them again? They’re currently 4 days per Day and two days per Night, but we could go to 3 and 1 pretty easily. Just let me know what you guys think! ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2570 "2011-08-22T05:53:48Z")
Sorry, **Astral**. I think it’s just a concatenation of events – lots of end-of-summer vacations/tests/whatevers, plus a fast-moving rival game that I believe a few of our players are participating in, plus the recent death of our [del]loudest[/del] most prolific town-member. _And_ some of our players have been rather close-mouthed the entire game (in particular the notorious **pedescribe** , but he’s not the only culprit). But I don’t think shortening the Days/Nights would help; in fact, I think it would be a hinderance. We’re already lucky to hear from some people once or twice a Day; shorten the Day lengths and we may miss contributions altogether. At least that’s my thought. Now to **Hirka** : Sell me on **USCDiver**. Can you remind me what argument you found most persuasive? The thing about **Diver** is that he was gunning for **Red Skeezix** way back when most everyone else was tossing the noose around poor **ShadowFacts** ’s neck. Why would a scum **Diver** be so willing to bus both **Septimus** _and_ **Red Skeezix** , particularly the latter when he was doing it way before other people were out to get **Red**? For that matter, what changed your mind about me, for whom you voted Yesterday? (Not that I’m complaining, mind you… :D) ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2571 "2011-08-22T14:00:01Z")
I’ve added Day 5 and 6 vote counts to Mental Guy’s/Normal’s work, but sadly not had the time to do unvotes - this is just final votes of the leaders. It was done quickly so please check for errors: > [@MentalGuy](#): > > Day 1 > > RedSkeezix - [del]Askthepizzaguy 137 225[/del] > Tom Scud/Diver - [del]Normal Phase 140 196[/del] > choie - [del]pedescribe 150 184[/del] > pedescribe - [del]Stanislaus 159 204[/del], Silver Jan 382 > special ed - [del]Suburban Plankton[/del][del] 169 277[/del], [del]special ed 372 436[/del] > Kelly Criterion - [del]Normal Phase 196 338[/del], [del]ShadowFacts[/del][del] 203 360[/del], Stanislaus 204, MentalGuy 217, choie 247, Silver Jan 285, Scathach 293, Special Ed 295, TexCat 315, Suburban Plankton 342, LightFoot 361, Normal Phase 397, USCDiver 432, special ed 449 > Koldanar/Hirka - [del]Scathach [/del][del]211 293[/del], Askthepizzaguy 225, MentalGuy 319, Romanic/Weedy 363, Scathach 411, Silver Jan 416 > Normal Phase - KellyCriterion 213, [del]Silver Jan[/del][del] 227 274[/del] > Askthepizzaguy - gnarlycharlie 228, Koldanar/Hirka 238, septimus 248 > Silver Jan - Red Skeezix 233, ShadowFacts 360, pedescribe 369, choie 419, [del]MentalGuy 429 431[/del], USCDiver 432, Suburban Plankton 433 > Romanic/Weedy - [del]Silver Jan 324 366[/del] > septimus - Normal Phase 338, [del]special ed[/del][del] 371 372[/del] > Suburban Plankton - [del]special ed[/del][del] 436 449[/del] > Day 2 > septimus - Askthepizzaguy 488, Askthepizzaguy 528, Normal Phase 658, special ed 680, Normal Phase 829, special ed 832 > ShadowFacts - [del]Normal Phase 490 829[/del], [del]Red Skeezix 601 790[/del], Hirka T’Bawa 820, Hirka T’Bawa 826 > special ed - [del]Stanislaus 531 591[/del], Silver Jan 721, Silver Jan 752, [del]Weedy 761 773[/del], TexCat 783 > gnarlycharlie - MentalGuy 542, [del]Normal Phase 543 658[/del] > Koldanar/Hirka - MentalGuy 542 > Normal Phase - [del]special ed[/del][del] 544 680[/del], choie 566, gnarlycharlie 649, ShadowFacts 812 > Askthepizzaguy - special ed 544, pedescribe 553, pedescribe 553, [del]septimus[/del][del] 572 838[/del], [del]Weedy 611 740[/del], USCDiver 628 > Silver Jan - choie 566, ShadowFacts 575, [del]special ed 588 832[/del], Suburban Plankton 595, Red Skeezix 601, Inner Stickler 610, Weedy 791, septimus 838, septimus 838 > choie - Silver Jan 569, [del]Suburban Plankton[/del][del] 595 722[/del] > Koldanar/Hirka - LightFoot 597 > USCDiver - gnarlycharlie 649, LightFoot 821 > MentalGuy - Stanislaus 659 > TexCat - Suburban Plankton 722 > pedescribe - ShadowFacts 770 > Day 3, > septimus - [del]Hirka T’Bawa 885 1091[/del], [del]Normal Phase 887 947[/del], Inner Stickler 888, Stanislaus 893, gnarlycharlie 959, MentalGuy 968, Red Skeezix 1065, USCDiver 1098 > ShadowFacts - Hirka T’Bawa 885, Askthepizzaguy 1030, Red Skeezix 1065, Normal Phase 1080, Hirka T’Bawa 1091, TexCat 1192, TexCat 1192 > choie - [del]Askthepizzaguy[/del][del] 905 988[/del], [del]Weedy 923 1205[/del], Normal Phase 1047 > pedescribe - [del]Weedy 923 1044[/del] > Normal Phase - choie 930, [del]septimus[/del][del] 1009 1121[/del], [del]ShadowFacts 1090 1195[/del] > MentalGuy - gnarlycharlie 959 > gnarlycharlie - MentalGuy 968 > Stanislaus - [del]Askthepizzaguy[/del][del] 988 1067[/del] > TexCat - [del]Askthepizzaguy[/del][del] 988 1030[/del], Normal Phase 1007, Suburban Plankton 1014, septimus 1023, Weedy 1044, LightFoot 1109, Suburban Plankton 1167, septimus 1178, ShadowFacts 1195, ShadowFacts 1195, Weedy 1205, Inner Stickler 1210, Inner Stickler 1210 > Suburban Plankton - TexCat 1018, [del]Askthepizzaguy[/del][del] 1067 1175[/del] > Askthepizzaguy - septimus 1121 > > Day 4 > RedSkeezix - USCDiver 1698, ShadowFacts 1706, [del]Hirka T’Bawa 1745[/del] 1840, [del]Suburban Plankton 1748[/del] 1772, Stanislaus 1763, ShadowFacts 1955, choie 1976, Suburban Plankton 2098, Suburban Plankton 2098, Stanislaus 2114 > Suburban Plankton - [del]Askthepizzaguy 1710[/del] 1790 > ShadowFacts - [del]Askthepizzaguy 1710[/del] 1718, Red Skeezix 1719, [del]Askthepizzaguy 1721[/del] 1790, gnarlycharlie 1729, [del]Normal Phase 1761[/del] 2083, [del]Askthepizzaguy 1835[/del] 1972, [del]Hirka T’Bawa 1840[/del], Weedy 1909, MentalGuy 1913, Inner Stickler 1978, Inner Stickler 1978, LightFoot 1983, [del]choie 1985[/del] 1985, Normal Phase 2083, Normal Phase 2083, Hirka T’Bawa 2115, Hirka T’Bawa 2115 > Inner Stickler - [del]Askthepizzaguy 1718[/del] 1721, [del]Askthepizzaguy 1791[/del] 1835, Askthepizzaguy 1939, Askthepizzaguy 1972 > Weedy - [del]Suburban Plankton 1753[/del] 2098 > choie - [del]Askthepizzaguy 1791[/del] 1835 > MentalGuy - [del]Normal Phase 1947[/del] 2083, [del]Hirka T’Bawa 1969[/del] 2115 Day 5 Vote Count: ShadowFacts (11): Red Skeezix [1719], gnarlycharlie [1729], Weedy [1909], Mental Guy [1913], **Inner Stickler [1978], Inner Stickler [1978]**, LightFoot [1983], **Normal Phase [2083]**, **Normal Phase [2083]**, **Hirka T’Bawa [2115]**, **Hirka T’Bawa [2115]** Red Skeezix (10): USCDiver [1698], **ShadowFacts [1706]**, **Stanislaus [1763]**, **ShadowFacts [1955]**, Choie [1976], **Suburban Plankton [2098]**, **Suburban Plankton [2098]**, **Stanislaus [2114]** Day 6 Vote Count: Red Skeezix (15): **USCDiver [2226]**, **Weedy [2249],** **Mental Guy [2320]**, **Stanislaus [2349**], **Red Skeezix [2373], Red Skeezix [2373],** Normal Phase [2385], **Weedy [2386]**, **Stanislaus [2388]**,\*\* USCDiver [2392]\*\*, **Mental Guy [2393]**, **Normal Phase [2396]**, **Hirka T’Bawa 2397** , **Hirka T’Bawa 2397** , choie [2408] Choie (7): **gnarlycharlie [2280], Askthepizzaguy [2281], Askthepizzaguy [2321],** Hirka T’Bawa [2375], gnarlycharlie [2376], **Inner Stickler [2378], Inner Stickler [2378]** ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2572 "2011-08-22T14:03:07Z")
OK: I had a look at gnarly’s recent posts. His attitude vis-a-vis Red Skeezix yesterDay look odd: > [@gnarlycharlie](#): > > let me examine another option before moving forward. > > **are the scum allowed to NK one of their own**? > > i haven’t claimed yet, FTR. This could be getting at a number of things, but I think he’s opening up the possibility that Red sacrificed Suburban to look good himself. So there’s at least some residual suspicion of Red at this point. Then: > [@gnarlycharlie](#): > > so how many roleblockers do scum really have? > > if Inner was blocked, **Red** , if town, may have gotten a shot. > > **Red** , where are ya? This is back to considering the possibilities that Red is town, and asking for some input from Red. > [@gnarlycharlie](#): > > while i wait for **Red** , > > **Vote USCDiver** > > i’ve been suspicious of him but got sidetracked the last two Days. > > **Vote choie** > > obviously she’s read enough games to be familiar with the gameplay including its frustrating moments. granted **Pizza** is like a force of nature, her reactions aren’t that of someone who knows how difficult this game can be. while i’ve seen outbursts in the past, this seems over the top. But - goes ahead and votes in the meantime. The vote on Diver is a hangover from previous Days (which in some ways I think is fair enough - I’m poor at keeping pressure on over time). But Diver has come up a few times as a default suspicion and this really isn’t putting on pressure or driving a case on him. It’s very much marking time. The vote on choie is a psychological case, and I think is somewhat following Pizza’s lead. **Pizza** , please post a link of your suspects if **Red** flips scum as well as suspects in case **Suburban** somehow flips scum. [/QUOTE] Then asks for a further lead from Pizza, while considering Red might be scum. Then we get this, following Red’s Remorseful Vig claim: > [@gnarlycharlie](#): > > did you have to vote twice? i guess that’s academic now. > > **Unvote USCDiver** > **Vote choie** > > **Locking in.** 1. Why swallow Red’s claim whole? There’s no debate, no further questions, no consideration of the possibilities he was asking others to keep in mind earlier, just straight acceptance. 2. Why lock in choie at this point? Obviously hugely convinced of her guilt, but why? There’s very little case there to justify any of this. I think gnarly was trying to look good in respect of Red, but ultimately hoping the Remorseful Vig gambit would come off, and double-voting the next suspect a) gives Red a shot and b) spares gnarly from making any hard decisions later. Looking at the vote counts from earlier, he spent the early game not making contentious votes one way or another - which reflects his play wrt USCDiver above. I think this could be somebody playing under the radar, who tried to discreetly help Red by a) accepting his case and b) locking himself in on someone else. I’m not anti the case on Hirka at all, but in the interest of hopefully generating some interest in an alternative case. **vote gnarlycharlie** ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2573 "2011-08-22T19:03:20Z")
I think the case against \*\*Hirka \*\*is solid and he is my preference for Today’s lynch. There were a few parts of \*\*choie’s \*\*posts since the end of Yesterday that caught my eye too though. In addition to the other parts of the case against her here is what I saw. > [@choie](#): > > Oh my God, I am so happy right now. Even if I’m murdered tonight (though I doubt a useless 'nilla townie would be) I’ll go with a smile on my lips and a song in my heart. > > Die, **Lords of Slaughter** – for fomenting suspicion among us and especially for torturing poor **Suburban**. > > And thanks, **ShadowFacts**. I knew you was good people. This first post after Red flipped scum seemed very disingenuous and forced the first time I read it. On retrospect it is much less seemingly so, but still has an air of being too, I don’t know the right word, scripted maybe? > [@choie](#): > > _Please look at my voting record for the past few Days._ Look whom I’ve been advocating for. **ShadowFacts**. **Suburban Plankton.**** Inner Stickler **. All of whom turned out to be townies. Look who I wanted dead since the** ShadowFacts **bandwagon started on Day 4 –** Red Skeezix**. This doesn’t read like the voting record of a Townie, this is the voting record of a Scum who knows which players are which. > [@choie](#): > > If you have a webcam, please, when I die and Astral Rejection gives the color that shows the side I’m on, make sure that the cam gets a picture of your reaction. \*\* _If I’m town_\*\*, you must post: “I’m very sorry choie, I was wrong. And I’m sorry for wasting town’s time for Days by sticking with my _idee fixe_ that you were certainly scum.” With, of course, a link to said picture. If you don’t have a webcam, I’ll just take the statement. Emphasis mine. “If” :dubious: I think \*\*choie \*\*is a good candidate for Tomorrow’s Lynch but I could get behind her lynch Today as well. **vote choie** ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2574 "2011-08-22T19:29:21Z")
> [@USCDiver](#): > > This first post after Red flipped scum seemed very disingenuous and forced the first time I read it. On retrospect it is much less seemingly so, but still has an air of being too, I don’t know the right word, scripted maybe? I’m a professional writer/editor and a former actor/performer. Almost everything I write sounds too scripted. > [@](#): > > This doesn’t read like the voting record of a Townie, this is the voting record of a Scum who knows which players are which. Heh. I love it. This is a much-needed boost for my insecure little ego considering how poorly I was playing for the first half of the game. So when – yes, _when_ – you learn that I’m actually townie, I wonder what this sort of record will mean? Am I some kind of Mafia idiot savant, or have I just had a swing of beginner’s luck? > [@](#): > > Emphasis mine. “If” :dubious: Oh pshaw, that’s just using **Askthepizzaguy** ’s usual format for hypotheticals, and also riffing on his dead certainty that I’m actually scum. Feel free to lynch me today if you want, I’m extremely expendable as vanilla townie. (Though once I’m gone, my fellow Townies may regret having ignored my streak of awesome predictions.) But after that you’re gonna have to lynch one scum after another, so please promise me you’ll look at **Hirka** and **Gnarlycharlie** too? **Hirka** , if you’re around, I’m still curious about what you see in **USCDiver** that makes a double-vote worthwhile. Even after his latest post, when I could easily start plopping some OMGUS-tinted glasses on, I still don’t see a particularly scummy player here. (Just a wrongheaded townie. :D) ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2575 "2011-08-22T19:45:29Z")
Hey! It’s **Stanislaus**! [quote=“Stanislaus, post:2572, topic:588052”] I think gnarly was trying to look good in respect of Red, but ultimately hoping the Remorseful Vig gambit would come off, and double-voting the next suspect a) gives Red a shot and b) spares gnarly from making any hard decisions later. Looking at the vote counts from earlier, he spent the early game not making contentious votes one way or another - which reflects his play wrt USCDiver above. I think this could be somebody playing under the radar, who tried to discreetly help Red by a) accepting his case and b) locking himself in on someone else. I’m not anti the case on Hirka at all, but in the interest of hopefully generating some interest in an alternative case. vote gnarlycharlie Well hallefreakin’lujah, I’m not the only one giving **gnarlycharlie** the side-eye. None of this is conclusive (hell, is anything ever _completely_ conclusive? I guess the case against **Red** was pretty close) but it’s good to hear a better (and more trusted) player articulate reasons why **gnarlycharlie** might be raising the hinkometer. I know **Normal** is really set on **MentalGuy** , and I do hope she’s able to return early enough tomorrow to give us some more reasons why. I’m still leaning town on him. So **Stanislaus** if **Hirka** flips town, you’d go to **gnarlycharlie** next, or do you suspect someone else (me, **Diver** , **Mental Guy** , **Weedy** , even **Normal** )? ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2011, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2576 "2011-08-22T20:11:16Z")
I’m uncomfortably aware that I haven’t taken a serious look at Normal - I shy away from the post volumes! But she did nearly get septimus lynched on D2, which gives her a big chunk of town cred. Weedy is another clean-nose, low impact player, which means I need to look harder at him. gnarly has voted for both Diver and Mental Guy, so if he flips town I’ll be looking harder at those two. Diver’s failure to push Red over the edge when he had a chance looks bad; Mental Guy tweaked my scumdar earlier in the game, but I need to update that. So after gnarly, it’s Diver, MG,…, Weedy,…,…, Normal - but that might change once I do some proper re-reading. ---
**Author:** ![MentalGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/439d5e/32.png) [@MentalGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MentalGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2577 "2011-08-23T02:30:25Z")
Concerning toDay’s lynch, I am content with Hirka. I think the analysis of his voting pattern is fairly convincing and suspected him earlier in the game(well, Koldanar). **Vote Hirka T’Bawa** After Hirka, I am most suspect of GnarlyCharlie. I would reevaluate after seeing player’s alignment, but after that I would put choie and then I am not sure between Weedy and USCDiver. Assuming 4 starting scum, we have two mislynches left. I think at this point, if Normal or Stanislaus are scum, I am just going to congratulate them on their win. pedescribe is a problem. Someone mentioned that he will quit participating to make the point that non-participants need to be dealt with. It seems that would be a particularly powerful point if he was in fact scum. (If someone remembers who pointed out that that was pede’s MO, I would appreciate knowing. I would not put as much stock in it if it came from scum.) I don’t really want to spend a mislynch on pedescribe (especially since I am afraid one is going to be spent on me once Normal gets back), but I also don’t want scum to win because pede didn’t play. Anyway, I am about halfway through a reread now. I don’t think my mind will change on Hirka and I doubt it will change on charlie. After that things are more fluid. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2578 "2011-08-23T02:38:28Z")
Vote Count! Hirka T’Bawa (6): Normal Phase [2545], Choie [2546], gnarlycharlie [2547], USCDiver [2554], Weedy [2555], Mental Guy [2575] USCDiver (2): Hirka T’Bawa [2565], Hirka T’Bawa [2565] Choie (2): gnarlycharlie [2547], USCDiver [2571] gnarlycharlie (1): Stanislaus [2570] With these votes, Hirka T’Bawa would be lynched. Remember, Day ends on tomorrow at 5 pm. ---
**Author:** ![gnarlycharlie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@gnarlycharlie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarlycharlie)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2579 "2011-08-23T02:44:40Z")
it certainly has been quiet quiet since **Pizza** ’s death. **stanislaus** , i find your case on me is more solid than **choie** ’s. that said, i really believed **Red**. he fooled **pizza** , **inner** and me. of course, i’m the only one who hasn’t been cleared. 1. regarding **SP** , i wanted to make sure that this wasn’t some scum trick to make us lynch Red before **SP** ’s reveal. 2. i was looking for **Red** , a lot of people were. we wanted to know his side. 3. voting **Diver** and **choie**. i wanted to put down votes. wasn’t sure when Red would return. 4. double voting **choie**. did i mention i believed **Red**? will be back later for more thoughts. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2580 "2011-08-23T02:52:10Z")
> [@MentalGuy](#): > > pedescribe is a problem. Someone mentioned that he will quit participating to make the point that non-participants need to be dealt with. It seems that would be a particularly powerful point if he was in fact scum. (If someone remembers who pointed out that that was pede’s MO, I would appreciate knowing. I would not put as much stock in it if it came from scum.) I think it first came briefly from [Weedy in post #1048](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14069848&postcount=1048) (bolding mine): > [@Weedy](#): > > I voted for pedescribe to hopefully get his attention. I did think it was slightly scummy to lock in a vote so early in the day yesterday, because then he has an excuse for being disengaged for the rest of the day, but it’s no much to go on. **Last game he pretty much completely disappeared for days on end, but he turned out to be town.** Someone who just isn’t there isn’t giving any information one way or the other, but someone who is around, but not posting, is choosing to keep her thoughts to herself. And was reiterated more strongly by [Normal in post #1292](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14084960&postcount=1292): > [@Normal Phase](#): > > I forgot about Pedescribe (otherwise known as he who perpetually skips out on games). I may have missed some mentions though. So I dunno if this helps you, **MentalGuy**. BTW, I think your nickname for **pedescribe** is a bit… erm … unfortunate. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2581 "2011-08-23T05:52:19Z")
Regarding pedescribe, I think if we are able to hit at least one Scum in the next two lynches we will be in a better position to waste a possible mislynch on pedescribe. The last thing we want to do is leave him alive until 3-way. Then it just becomes a race between the last two other players to lock in their votes first. Actually thinking about it a little bit more, if we lynch a scum and then there is no night kill we may as well assume that pedescribe is the last scum and is really not participating at all. But we would run the risk that he is actually actively watching the thread and participating on the scum side, but silent in the main thread. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2582 "2011-08-23T12:57:57Z")
How many people are alive right now? Diver me choie Stanislaus pedescribe Hirka Mental Guy gnarly weedy Inner (where’d he go?) That’s ten, with (hopefully!) only two scum among them. Assume a Hirka lynch. That’s 9, and 8 in the morning. If Hirka’s not scum, it’s at 6-2. Not yet effective LYLO even with pedescribe as nonvoting town: a mislynch and night kill bring it to 4-2 with three town voting, then 3-1 the next day if successful. If Hirka is scum, it’s at 7-1. A mislynch goes to 4-1 “lylo” the next day with ped still alive. Scum’s godfather and presumed main killer are dead. Roleblocker is still alive. Other one is probably an investigative role of some sort (or that still-unexplained delayer?)\*, possibly a goon, outside shot two goons. If there are three scum left, assumign a Hirka lynch, then it is 6-2 tomorrow if successful today and a tricky 5-3 if not. As things stand I don’t support lynching pedescribe, ever. I don’t think he’s mafia, on the strength of having double-voted ATPG on day two only to have the next vote on ATPG be placed by the mafia godfather. There’s an outside chance he’s third party; if we get two scum and the game’s still not over, that’s the time to worry about it. If it gets to scum-or-pedescribe but not both, go for the scum and let them worry about whether they need to kill ped. if Astral gives a win to a third party player who has not posted since day two I think I’m giving up this game for good. Pedescribe needs to never sign up for a game again, regardless. At one point recently I thought I had it settled in my mind that there WERE no third parties in this game, but I can’t imagine now what made me think that – anyone have any opinions? \ ***Stanislaus** could you have one more run-through of all the known night actions, given Red’s flip, please? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052.md?page=128) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052.md?page=130)