# De'endee Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [July 6, 2011, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052 "2011-07-06T16:30:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 130
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2583 "2011-08-23T13:03:25Z")
> [@USCDiver](#): > > Regarding pedescribe, I think if we are able to hit at least one Scum in the next two lynches we will be in a better position to waste a possible mislynch on pedescribe. The last thing we want to do is leave him alive until 3-way. Then it just becomes a race between the last two other players to lock in their votes first. Check my math; unless something changes it will not go to three-way. How does that affect your thinking? > [@](#): > > Actually thinking about it a little bit more, if we lynch a scum and then there is no night kill we may as well assume that pedescribe is the last scum and is really not participating at all. But we would run the risk that he is actually actively watching the thread and participating on the scum side, but silent in the main thread. I’ll put myself on record now; if this is what he is doing, and he is allowed to win that way when town’s options to get a read on him outside of posting are so limited (no vig, doc starts paranoid, one seer and a very limited tracker), not only can he shove it up his ass sideways, but so can Astral. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2584 "2011-08-23T13:17:41Z")
> [@MentalGuy](#): > > Concerning toDay’s lynch, I am content with Hirka. I think the analysis of his voting pattern is fairly convincing and suspected him earlier in the game(well, Koldanar). > > \*\*[COLOR=“Blue”]Vote Hirka T’Bawa > > After Hirka, I am most suspect of GnarlyCharlie. I would reevaluate after seeing player’s alignment, but after that I would put choie and then I am not sure between Weedy and USCDiver. I’m needing reasoning for all of these. I don’t remember you ever mentioning any of them in a suspicion context before now, and here you don’t even reference what you agree with or disagree with in others’ posts. You’re basically committing to nothing here; I don’t like it. > [@](#): > > Assuming 4 starting scum, we have two mislynches left. I think at this point, if Normal or Stanislaus are scum, I am just going to congratulate them on their win. > > pedescribe is a problem. Someone mentioned that he will quit participating to make the point that non-participants need to be dealt with. It seems that would be a particularly powerful point if he was in fact scum. (If someone remembers who pointed out that that was pede’s MO, I would appreciate knowing. I would not put as much stock in it if it came from scum.) I don’t really want to spend a mislynch on pedescribe (especially since I am afraid one is going to be spent on me once Normal gets back), but I also don’t want scum to win because pede didn’t play. This bothers me, too. (Not ped, you.) First: Again with the lack of analysis. Absent any consideration of whether pedescribe actually _is_ scum, absent even the (incorrect) tie-break consideration offered by Diver, all this really is is fear-mongering. Do you actually think he might be scum, and if so, why? Second: Last game he quit participating as a town tracker. You know? Third: I’ve said several times that I doubt you and Hirka are scum together. Yet you’re worried about me mislynching you anyway? While participating in a huge bandwagon on Hirka at the same time? Does not compute. > [@](#): > > Anyway, I am about halfway through a reread now. I don’t think my mind will change on Hirka and I doubt it will change on charlie. After that things are more fluid. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2585 "2011-08-23T13:20:16Z")
> [@choie](#): > > I know **Normal** is really set on **MentalGuy** , and I do hope she’s able to return early enough tomorrow to give us some more reasons why. I’m still leaning town on him. I’ve given a bunch in the past if you care to look them up. His reaction to Septimus on day three (unconvincing bussing) is the point that gets me most strongly. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2586 "2011-08-23T13:46:04Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > not only can he shove it up his ass sideways, but so can Astral. Love you too, Normal. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2587 "2011-08-23T14:50:48Z")
OK-dokey, Normal. I’m taking Inner as Town based on SP’s confirmation: **Night 1** Suburban tracked Pizza - blocked LightFoot investigated Pizza - Pizza is Town Red took no action Inner Stickler protected/blocked Special Ed Scathach killed If Ed was blocked by Inner, he didn’t block SP. Ergo Scum Roleblocker did it. I know you’re sceptical about the colour but at this point I don’t see any other way for it to have happened. I’ve looked up the colour to check, so here it is: > [@Astral's PM to Suburban](#): > > You awake, feeling refreshed. Funny, you never usually go to bed so early, but you must have been very tired. Didn’t you mean to do something last night? You can’t quite seem to remember. > > (You were blocked) It \*is \*quite similar to what Red quoted when he was blocked by Shadow: > [@Red' claimed PM from Astral](#): > > You awake, refreshed and alert, still dressed for your assassination. You glance down at your boots, frowning… you don’t remember being too tired to take them off. In fact, you don’t remember much of anything. You sit up cautiously, trying to piece together what had happened. Your knives, tucked away in their sheathes, are perfectly clean, without a hint of blood on them. > > (You were blocked) …but there is a difference - Suburban couldn’t remember if he had meant to do something last night, but Red knew that he was planning a kill. Is this a signficant difference? I don’t know, and this is why I don’t like trying to second-guess colour. Red’s came before SP’s so it’s not a copy of that. Most likely it is what he was sent, or pretty close, because he \*was \*blocked and would have had a PM to that effect. Does that mean they both come from the same source (e.g. Ed/Shadow)? If so, why wasn’t Ed blocked by Inner? Would he also not have been protected in that case? It’s \*just \*possible that Ed blocked SP, but I think a lot more likely is that scum did. I think the colour is the same because it’s a magical block, and there’s no reasons for the effect not to be the same even if the origin was different. **Night 2** Suburban tracked Ed - Ed took an action Suburban received delayed reveal from Night 1 - Pizza took no action LightFoot investigated ??? - blocked Red attacked Septimus - Septimus was protected Inner Stickler protected/blocked LightFoot Ed killed I don’t know who Ed blocked, but it doesn’t seem to have been Suburban or Inner and is highly unlikely to have been Lightfoot. NB Suburban’s delayed result suggests that the scum roleblocker is the guilty party from N1, because that’s not a feature of Ed’s/Shadow’s block. Red is lying about attacking septimus, obviously. Inner protected/blocked Lightfoot - I’m assuming the scum roleblocker did too because that’s what roleblockers do to detectives. **Night 3** Suburban tracked Shadow - Shadow took an action LightFoot investigated ??? - blocked Red attacked Shadow - blocked Shadow blocked Red Inner Stickler protected/blocked LightFoot No kill. I think this is pretty straightforward now: Shadow blocked Red and stopped the kill; Inner targetted LF again; scum roleblocker didn’t target Shadow (other claimed power-role) so presumably targetted LF. **Night 4** Suburban tracked Inner - Inner cast “a helpful spell” LightFoot investigated ??? - blocked Red attacked Pedescribe - blocked Shadow blocked Pizza Inner Stickler protected LightFoot No Kill **Day 5** Lightfoot killed Red almost certainly didn’t attack pedescribe; scum probably swapped a night-kill for a day-kill to get to Lightfoot. Lightfoot was blocked but not by Inner - so the scum roleblocker again. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2588 "2011-08-23T15:10:35Z")
There’s still such serious inconsistencies in the color. I swear, if I _was_ ever to go along with a lynch of pedescribe, it would be purely to put a nail in that lingering paranoia of ped being the doc and Inner lying. Why do you not comment on night four? (ETA: nm, you did, only out of place) Lightfoot reports the same color as the two previous nights, but (if we’re assuming the headaches and all that is the result of being aimed at by two roleblockers instead of one), why does the color not revert to what it was previously (what Suburban reported from night one)? Argh. (There’s basically no reason for scum not to kill Inner tonight, though. Longer they leave him alive the greater the chance they lose another player and become unable to control for his protection. And it’s not like anyone, even me, is going to try to lynch Inner short of LYLO anyway. So I don’t really anticipate having to deal with this annoying paranoia for much longer, regardless.) Man I hope this lynch is correct. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2589 "2011-08-23T17:58:47Z")
> [@choie](#): > > I’ve already mentioned my thought processes regarding **Hirka** , and they’re along the lines of yours, **Weedy**. > > But we’re awfully silent today, and I don’t think we should be, even though it’s relatively early in the Day yet. Admittedly, it’s a lovely warm summer Saturday and few of us are probably hanging out playing Mafia. Still in honor of our late lamented doughy friend, we should examine everyone carefully. > > 1. Let’s say **Hirka** is lynched and he proves scum. Who’s the next choice? > > 2. Let’s say **Hirka** is lynched and he flips town. What does this indicate? > > The remaining player list, in alpha order, is: > > **choie** > **gnarlycharlie** > **Hirka** > **MentalGuy** > **Normal Phase** > **pedescribe** > **Stanislaus** > **USCDiver** > **Weedy** > > (I don’t think I’ve left anyone out, did I? _Edited to add_: actually I originally forgot **pedescribe** , not surprisingly, and **Stanislaus** , which _does_ surprise me!) And Inner Stickler. Note to self: choie and Stickler/Stanislaus/pedescribe not scum together. Honestly, despite what I have a feeling I’m going to be sayign below, I have a little trouble believing scum would forget the existence of a town doc, either. Anyway. > [@](#): > > Anyway. Here are my questions for those with more games under their belt: > > 1. So far we’ve hit two Lords of Slaughter. We’ve been assuming there were four in total to start with, so I’m assuming this means there are two left, right? Is there _at all_ a possibiity that there’s more (or less) than that? With 21 players to start with, is 4 the maximum or could we be extremely unlucky and have a 5th Lord lurking among us? I’ve never seen a ratio as high as five of 21 in a game with as few town powers as this one has. That said – this game also seems to be devoid of any second killer, whether vig or SK, unless pedescribe is one, and as a result there is a relatively large number of mislynches for scum to have to get through, if there are only four. So … just maybe something like roleblocker/goon/goon. Three is not possible, IMO. > [@](#): > > 1. Related question: mathematically speaking, what is our worst-case scenario, as far as voting results go. Like, let’s say we mislynch today, and by some horrible fluke we mislynch the next day. Are we utterly screwed? In other words, how many Days do we have left assuming every scenario: a correct lynch toDay, a wrong lynch toMorrow… When is Lynch or Lose for us? Talked about that a couple posts up. > [@](#): > > 1. If **Hirka** isn’t scum, who’s your second choice? I’m assuming for most of you it’s me. Let’s say we lynch **Hirka** toDay and me toMorrow. And let’s say I flip town. Who becomes the third most likely Lord? Still Mental Guy for me, though I’m clearly going to have to revisit that case (as well as look at just about everybody else) before morning, regardless. After that I don’t know. As an aside, if the next few night kills weren’t so freaking obvious already I’d have a real issue with these trust lists. But they are, so … > [@](#): > > For me, I’ll tell you who my current top suspects are, from most likely to least: > > A) **Hirka** (obviously) > > B) **gnarlycharlie**. It could be that we’re both town and unfortunately caught in a dyad of mutual suspicion – to me, he’s acting scummy by both his voting history and his double-voting of me yesterday; to him – if he’s by some chance an innocent Townie and his suspicions are genuine – I look scummy for presumably all the reasons **pizza** outlined. It’d be ironic if we both flip town. I don’t think that’ll happen. For some reason **pizza** was giving **gnarly** an _awful_ lot of slack, and none of it related to his gameplay, but rather some “feeling” that charlie was gnarly. IMO, his votes have been wrong 95% of the time, except when he leapt on the **septimus** bus. That’s damning as hell to me. Plus my gut instinct is against him, and honestly my gut hasn’t been wrong in several Days. (I think it’s all the salad I’ve been eating. :)) He was doing what apparently is called “snuggling” with **pizza** yesterday, gladly lapping up the wrongsauce that **pizza** was spilling regarding my alleged guilt, and generally playing Iago to **pizza** ’s Othello. I know none of the other players here should use that as a reason against **gnarlycharlie** , since you can’t possibly know I’m town 100%. I do, so, well, I kinda have to consider this a negative against the **gnarlster**. But I certainly understand why others may not. What do you think of the theory that a scum Red should have forewarned his teammates about the gambit he was about to play, and kept them from letting themselves get caught out by responding to it? If I have any doubt about Hirka at all, it’s that. As wishy-washy as his response was, he DID respond by voting in favor of the scum who was later lynched, and so did gnarly. On other issues – I think most scum woudl have managed to vote correctly a little bit more often than gnarly did over the course of these past several days – it wasn’t like Septimus or Red were being suspected for poor or insufficient reasons, or like there was no danger in voting their opponents (Shadow in particular). And he came off as townier than Mental Guy during their little day two/three kerfuffle, I thought. So while I do have some suspicion here, I also have a great deal of resistance. I very much need to review his participation from the outset. > [@](#): > > C) **pedescribe**. I know this may be a controversial choice, but I just… I just cannot believe that a townie would really stay out of the game to such a degree, to the point of not even voting in three or four Days. To me that indicates not wanting to be pinned down at all. Is this really how he constantly plays? I just can’t fathom this guy at all. I’d rather lynch him than my fourth choice, simply because he doesn’t deserve to survive the game the way he’s been playing. No. Just no. All of you, Mental Guy and Diver jumping on ped at this point is pinging hugely. > [@](#): > > D) **MentalGuy**. As others have noted, he _has_ been playing it mighty safe, which apparently is a bad thing. Ayup. > [@](#): > > I admit I’m picking him because I’m influenced by **Normal** ’s certainty, that his being hesitant equals trying to avoid giving oneself away. Unfortunately I know from personal experience that this isn’t always the case, and so I am kinda reluctant to ding someone for playing similarly to myself. I find this to be an interesting comment, because to me you two are not playing remotely alike. Mental Guy, if scum, is pursuing a strategy of blending in with the background noise. I don’t even think he’s made a case since gnarly on day two. You have been exceedingly antagonistic, and your cases, up until today, generally one-offs on noisy people like me for reasons like “she wouldn’t do that if she were town” that virtually no one is likely to pay attention to at all. Ineffective in terms of scum-hunting, but virtually the opposite of “safe”, for all of that. It’s the “too out-there to be scum” strategy, if you’re scum. Until today. Until Red is finally gone as a distraction, and your biggest antagonist is dead, and _somebody’s_ gotta push the wrong lynches? Why the change, choie? If stuff like this post has been in you all along – and you capable of producing it despite being thought a suspect, as it is evident that you are – why start posting like this only now? > [@](#): > > Still, I’m looking around for more suspects, and here’s **MentalGuy** whom other people – people I have relative trust for – seem to find shady. > > And yet… and yet, looking at the final vote lists, his votes are pretty much right on the money. His votes: > > Day 1: **Hirka/Koldanar** > Day 2: **Hirka/Koldanar** and **gnarlycharlie** > Day 3: **Septimus** and **gnarlycharlie** > Day 4: **Septimus** > Day 5: **ShadowFacts** (okay this one was a misstep, but it’s one many townies seem to have made, so on its own, it doesn’t mean much to me) > Day 6: **Red Skeezix** x2 The Hirka votes look great if Hirka is scum. Otherwise, not so much. The Septimus votes (especially day three) are hugely problematic and the very core of my case against him. I do believe I’ve brought that up a few times. The last two are hardly exhonerating. This vote record is not all it’s cracked up to be, nor all that you’re presenting it as. Unless Hirka is scum. Here’s the thing: – If Hirka IS scum, which you offer as part of the case for MG’s townieness, then MG should in no way be so high on your suspect list as you have him. Especially when, despite his lofty ranking, virtually this entire bullet point consists of reasons _not_ to suspect him. At the very least you should have it variable, on an “if Hirka is scum/if Hirka is not scum” basis. Yet you don’t. Why? I think you want to have it both ways. If you’re scum with Hirka, you want to retain MG as a suspect somehow (or at least get some cred with me for having considered it). If you’re scum with MG, which I’m kind of starting to suspect, you want to be able to point to him having been high on your suspect list here, despite internal inconsistencies and seemingly mroe interest in showing why he’s _not_ scum than why he is. > [@](#): > > So he very early suspected **Hirka** and **gnarlycharlie** , two people I find most suspicious, and voted **Septimus** earlier than he had to. False. He voted him fourth or something on day three. > [@](#): > > He also placed a double-vote on **Red** , which – interestingly – was his only double-vote. I guess that could read two ways. Bah. On day six? Red was already in the ground. > [@](#): > > If he’s scum and you suspect me, it could be that he was trying really hard to save me over **Red** , except that doesn’t really make sense since we know **Red** was guilty. Or, if he’s scum, it could be that he wanted to boost his cred by bussing **Red Skeezix** extra hard, thus dispelling the “wussy/safe voter” miasma that’s surrounding him. OTOH, if he’s town, it could just be that he was making the right decision and was especially determined to see **Red** lynched at last. This paragraph has more switchbacks than L’Alpe d’Huez. > [@](#): > > Against him? **Normal** ’s suspicion, which I think must be strongly considered. Also I suppose his good voting record could be explained by PIS. I’m far less convinced of that reason than by **Normal** ’s. Well, I’ve been wrong before. Once or twice. > [@](#): > > E) **USCDiver**. Now he’s an interesting case. Split his votes on Day 1 for **Kelly** and **Silver Jan** , then went after **pizza** on Day 2. Day 3 he votes **septimus** before the bus really had gotten started. Really? How early? > [@](#): > > Day 4 he goes against Received Opinion to jump off the **septimus** bus and target **Red Skeezix** , who gets the remainder of his votes for the rest of the game till now. Interesting. I don’t think scum would bus _two_ major players unless absolutely necessary (hence my top suspects’ delayed or non-votes for **Red Skeezix** yesterday). So **Diver** strikes me as most likely townie. Bah. I do. Red Skeezix was caught red-handed. Especially to teh scum, who knew that was true. Diver’s also had the odd comment here and there that has severely pinged. I need to review the timing of his day three vote (and what he said about it) and pull up his other comments. > [@](#): > > F) **Stanislaus**. The only ding against him IMO is his vote against **TexCat** on Days 2 and 3. (Day 2 his final votes were for **Jan** and **TexCat** ). I excuse his votes for **Kelly** and **Jan** since those wagons were joined by almost everyone, including me. However, aside from joining the **TexCat** bus ride, he hasn’t stepped a foot out of place since. _And_ he voted for **Red Skeezix** over **ShadowFacts** the day that would end with **ShadowFacts** swinging from a tree, which is, for me, kind of a litmus test. If he’s scum, he’s impressive. Wrong reasons, but I _think_ the right conclusion. I see him as town mostly because of him truly pushing those lynches (no sign of mixed emotions or letting others do the work, especially with Red), and for stuff like “this is a nightmare” after Shadow’s lynch, which is not easy to fake. > [@](#): > > G) **Normal**. I’m frankly embarrassed by my doubts against her early in the game, which were partly due to my instinctive mistrust over very confident people. A stupid, stupid reason, as I would find out. Also, I’d come to distrust **pizza** (this was before or slightly after **LightFoot** confirmed him), and the two of them were acting like codependent siblings. Anyway, that said, looking at her final voting record, she reads as Town to me. It’s kind of neutral, really: she’s wrong about some things (mostly **ShadowFacts** ), right about others ( **Septimus** and eventually **Red Skeezix** , although she was a little late in locking on him but I can hardly blame her for behavior – waiting to lock until later in the Day – that I vociferously encourage!) So overall her record seems highly natural. On a personal level, which I can only justify to myself, there’s the fact that she apparently doesn’t see me as the 2nd most likely suspect after **Hirka** – she’s aiming at **MentalGuy** instead. This carries significant weight with me and makes me trust her judgment. (Though I know it won’t for those who think I’m scum.) > > The only thing that counterbalances this is the fact that she’s one of the best, most experienced players here, and I can _easily_ believe that she’s just That Good as scum. 😃 I wish. > [@](#): > > Whew. Well, there they are. I’d be very, very interested to hear from everyone their thoughts on their own suspect lists, from top to bottom, as well as answers to my questions re: how the math works out. > > Edited to add: Oh crapples, I forgot **Weedy** in my list o’ suspects. I’m sorry, it’s late now and I have to rush out. But I’d place **Weedy** about equal with **Mental Guy** on my list, probably a bit lower. Not an outstanding final vote record, but it reads as pretty natural, sort of average, what you’d expect for a townie. So I really put him/her in the middle of the list. Add Weedy to the “not scum with choie” list, heh. This is about what I have for her, too, which is bothersome in itself. I need to review her badly. Revised list: Looking scummy – Hirka (oh please, but I’m having my doubts b/c of the other two), Mental Guy, choie Maybe? – Diver Must review – gnarly, weedy Other – Inner, Stanislaus, pedescribe To do list: – unvotes. Mental Guy day four Septimus vote. Diver day three Septimus vote. Diver, gnarly and weedy posts. Way too much, but I’ll try. ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2590 "2011-08-23T18:54:42Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > If Hirka’s not scum, it’s at 6-2. Not yet effective LYLO even with pedescribe as nonvoting town: a mislynch and night kill bring it to 4-2 with three town voting, then 3-1 the next day if successful. > > If Hirka is scum, it’s at 7-1. A mislynch goes to 4-1 “lylo” the next day with ped still alive. > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Check my math; unless something changes it will not go to three-way. How does that affect your thinking? Hmm, You’re right, I missed one. Here’s what I get now (presume 2 remaining scum): \*\*Hirka \*\*Scum 8-2 Now (Day 7)- Lynch Hirka 8-1 Tonight (Night 7) - Dead Townie 7-1 Day 8- Mislynch 6-1 Night 8 - Dead Townie 5-1 Day 9 - Mislynch 4-1 Night 9 - Dead Townie 3-1 Day 10 - LyLo With \*\*pedescribe \*\*still alive, it essentially comes down to 3 way Mafia with a little extra uncertainty as to \*\*pedescribe’s \*\*role. However I think the best test of his role at that point would be whether or not the Night kills continue with the lynching of the next scum. For completeness, \*\*Hirka \*\*Town 8-2 Now (Day 7) - Mislynch **Hirka** 7-2 Tonight (Night 7) - Dead Townie 6-2 Day 8 - Mislynch 5-2 Night 8 - Dead Townie 4-2 Day 9 - This is LyLo So lynching a scum (either \*\*Hirka \*\*or whoever) gets us an additional Day/Night cycle, but we still only get 2 mislynches at this point. I agree that we’re stuck leaving \*\*pedescribe \*\*alone and hoping for the best. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2591 "2011-08-23T19:08:51Z")
Thanks for the help with calculations, guys. It makes sense, assuming everyone’s math is right. **Normal** I’d be _very_ grateful if you checked up on **gnarly** whenever you have a chance, because I’m very willing to admit my logic is probably flawed and I’m not comfortable yet analyzing posts on a micro-level the way they should be in a game like this. What embarrasses me most is that I apparently don’t understand the way the mafia night kills work. I thought that they all voted on a candidate and told the mod as a group. But according to [Stanislaus’s chart](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14172512&postcount=2585) and [del]Normal’s analysis thereof[/del] **USCDiver** ’s post, there’s only one person who’s allowed to make the kill? And if that person is lynched (e.g. **Red Skeezix** ) then there can’t be any more night kills? Or am I utterly misreading this quote from **USCDiver** : > [@USCDiver](#): > > However I think the best test of his role at that point would be whether or not the Night kills continue with the lynching of the next scum. ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2592 "2011-08-23T19:36:33Z")
> [@choie](#): > > What embarrasses me most is that I apparently don’t understand the way the mafia night kills work. I thought that they all voted on a candidate and told the mod as a group. But according to [Stanislaus’s chart](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14172512&postcount=2585) and [del]Normal’s analysis thereof[/del] **USCDiver** ’s post, there’s only one person who’s allowed to make the kill? And if that person is lynched (e.g. **Red Skeezix** ) then there can’t be any more night kills? Or am I utterly misreading this quote from **USCDiver** : The mechanic can be different for each game, but generally, the scum team selects a target and a player to do the kill. That player cannot perform another action during the night. So for instance, you might have a scum roleblocker who would want that power available and wouldn’t do the Night Kill. In our game, it seems clear Red was the player assigned to do the Kill on the Night he was blocked by Shadow. If we lynch a goon Today then the roleblocker (presumably the last Scum) will no longer be able to both block and perform the kill. It doesn’t matter much in this game, but lynching the scum roleblocker early can make a huge difference in some games. My point is that if \*\*pedescribe \*\*is in fact the final Scum and is not participating, there will be no Scum kill because no one will be choosing a target. The stickiness of the situation is the fact that he could be participating on the Scum side, but not posting which would not be all that unusual for him. Speaking of which: > [@Normal Phase](#): > > No. Just no. All of you, Mental Guy and Diver jumping on ped at this point is pinging hugely. I’m not jumping on **ped** , I just wanted to avoid having him be a part of three way Mafia. Redoing the math, I see that isn’t possible, so I don’t care what’s done with him, honestly. Actually I take that back, modkilled would be best (second best would be banning for violating the ‘don’t be a jerk’ rule). ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2593 "2011-08-23T20:03:47Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > And Inner Stickler. Note to self: choie and Stickler/Stanislaus/pedescribe not scum together. Honestly, despite what I have a feeling I’m going to be sayign below, I have a little trouble believing scum would forget the existence of a town doc, either. Anyway. Oh geeze, I _did_ forget **Inner**! What the hell, the very week I turn another year older, I start going senile? **Inner** would go last on my list, natch, but to be honest? I have a teensy, tiny, microscopic niggling doubt about him. I don’t really know why. I think because the only confirmation we have of him is through color that reads he cast a “helpful” spell. (But that “helpful” is kinda ambiguous. We’ve been assuming it meant “helpful to town,” but…) Also I don’t like that double-vote on me instead of **Red Skeezix** when he should really have much more certainty that **Red** was guilty, versus just having suspicions over me. But that’s probably just an ugly OMGUS instinct rising to the fore. Also his mentioning that he tried to protect **pizza** the night he was blocked, allowing **pizza** ’s murder to go through after all. That _could_ be read as him trying to bolster his claim. Again, it’s just me being super-duper-paranoid. All in all I do trust **Suburban** ’s confirmation and the mod color almost certainly _did_ mean “helpful to town.” So there, that’s where he goes on my suspect list: last, beneath you and **Stanislaus**. I find him most likely to be town than anyone else, other than me of course. > [@Normal](#): > > What do you think of the theory that a scum Red should have forewarned his teammates about the gambit he was about to play, and kept them from letting themselves get caught out by responding to it? If I have any doubt about Hirka at all, it’s that. As wishy-washy as his response was, he DID respond by voting in favor of the scum who was later lynched, and so did gnarly. Sure they did, after his lynch was already nearly a foregone conclusion, when it was clear that you and me and most of the other townies didn’t buy what **Red** was selling. So maybe if he did tell his scumbuddies about the gambit, they waited to see what your/pizza/my/other townies’ reactions were gonna be to the gambit. Either way, let’s face it: we know for sure that **Red** _DID_ pull this gambit, and it didn’t work. So either we’re _all_ townies, or for whatever reason, the scumbuddies were too late in backing him up on it. **Hirka** _did_ back him, at first – remember, he voted for me. Only toward Nightfall did he finally unvote me and switch to join the **Red** train, though – incredibly – still maintaining that he believed **Red** ’s tale (possibly because he had to justify his earlier vote for me). [quiote=Normal]On other issues – I think most scum woudl have managed to vote correctly a little bit more often than gnarly did over the course of these past several days – it wasn’t like Septimus or Red were being suspected for poor or insufficient reasons, or like there was no danger in voting their opponents (Shadow in particular). And he came off as townier than Mental Guy during their little day two/three kerfuffle, I thought. So while I do have some suspicion here, I also have a great deal of resistance. I very much need to review his participation from the outset. [/quote] Fair enough, and good points. Hopefully you’ll have a chance to review that stuff and shed some light on it for us. Or maybe **gnarly** just isn’t a very good scum player? 😃 Heck there have to be _some_ scummy folks who are just as hapless as me as townie. > [@Normal](#): > > No. Just no. All of you, Mental Guy and Diver jumping on ped at this point is pinging hugely. Confirmed townie **pizza** also felt that **pedescribe** shouldn’t survive the game, so it’s not exactly a scum-tell, is it? All I’m saying is that I think **pedescribe** is a meaniehead for not participating in any useful way. I’m certainly not advocating him over my top suspects. I’m fairly convinced that the top two suspects are **Hirka** and **gnarly** , so anyone else beneath them on the list is just a stab in the dark. > [@Normla](#): > > I find this to be an interesting comment, because to me you two are not playing remotely alike. Mental Guy, if scum, is pursuing a strategy of blending in with the background noise. I don’t even think he’s made a case since gnarly on day two. You have been exceedingly antagonistic, and your cases, up until today, generally one-offs on noisy people like me for reasons like “she wouldn’t do that if she were town” that virtually no one is likely to pay attention to at all. Ineffective in terms of scum-hunting, but virtually the opposite of “safe”, for all of that. It’s the “too out-there to be scum” strategy, if you’re scum. Ouch. I hate that I come across so poorly. Anyway, my point was that _other_ people (read: **pizza** and I think **Suburban** ) were bitching at me for being too wishy-washy, unwilling to commit to votes, and quiet (that last was from **ShadowFacts** actually), so that’s why I felt MG and I were similar. We’re both giving people the benefit of the doubt and reluctant to settle on votes for sure. > [@Normal](#): > > Until today. Until Red is finally gone as a distraction, and your biggest antagonist is dead, and _somebody’s_ gotta push the wrong lynches? Why the change, choie? If stuff like this post has been in you all along – and you capable of producing it despite being thought a suspect, as it is evident that you are – why start posting like this only now? Two reasons: 1. Because De’endee fell eerily silent after the **pizza** got burnt. 🙂 I mean seriously, did you _see_ how few posts there were this weekend? I figured _someone_ had to pick up the slack, and I kinda felt I owed it to **pizza** to start doing some analysis, or at least what I am pleased to call analysis, anyway. 2. Also, as I’ve stated, frankly my confidence in myself has somewhat improved over the last few Days (and days), pretty much ever since y’all voted **ShadowFacts** and I didn’t, and my instincts were right about **Suburban** and **Inner** and **Red Skeezix**. Now I fully appreciate that _you_ have no reason to believe that this “winning streak” is anything but insider-information courtesy of me being scum and ergo knowing everything in advance. But _for me_, I know that isn’t the case. I’m town and do _not_ have perfect information about these people. Something inside my brain was actually working correctly and making the right calls. So, thusly bolstered by my record, I’ve decided that maybe I have something to contribute after all. > [@Normal](#): > > The Hirka votes look great if Hirka is scum. Otherwise, not so much. The Septimus votes (especially day three) are hugely problematic and the very core of my case against him. I do believe I’ve brought that up a few times. The last two are hardly exhonerating. This vote record is not all it’s cracked up to be, nor all that you’re presenting it as. Unless Hirka is scum. Yep, I was only assuming **Hirka** is scum. I didn’t do a similar analysis of everyone’s posts using the opposite position. > [@Normal](#): > > If Hirka IS scum, which you offer as part of the case for MG’s townieness, then MG should in no way be so high on your suspect list as you have him. Especially when, despite his lofty ranking, virtually this entire bullet point consists of reasons _not_ to suspect him. At the very least you should have it variable, on an “if Hirka is scum/if Hirka is not scum” basis. Yet you don’t. Why? 'Cause I’m barely managing to eke my cases out as it is? I really really hate to play this card again because every time I do I know everyone rolls his/her eyes, but _I am new to this_. I am not used to analyzing every permutation of guilt/innocence out to the nth degree. Anyway I don’t think **Mental Guy** is that high on my list. It’s middling, isn’t it? Honestly, if it weren’t for my trust in _you_, he’d be even lower. So blame yourself, lady. 😃 > [@Normal](#): > > I think you want to have it both ways. If you’re scum with Hirka, you want to retain MG as a suspect somehow (or at least get some cred with me for having considered it). If you’re scum with MG, which I’m kind of starting to suspect, you want to be able to point to him having been high on your suspect list here, despite internal inconsistencies and seemingly mroe interest in showing why he’s _not_ scum than why he is. Wait, aren’t you the one trying to have it both ways? You’ve been the one promoting MG as guilty the whole time. So I boost him up on my list slightly, mostly because I’ve been trusting your judgment, and then _BAM_ you use this against me as reason I’m scum with him. Plus I spend most of the post saying why I’m torn about whether he’s guilty or not. That’s called being uncertain, and it’s also called perfectly natural in a game where _no one_ can really be 100% certain of anything. (Except, I guess, scum.) I’ve said this before: some of you players seem to feel that my not being 100% certain of someone’s guilt equals being guilty myself. Bizarrely that’s not a judgment you apply to yourselves, because it’s not like you’re 100% convinced on everyone. You’re okay with weighing the pros and cons yourselves. But you sure as heck love to point the finger at others trying to do the same. > [@Normal](#): > > False. He voted him fourth or something on day three. Day Three was earlier than the day everyone started voting for **septimus** on Day Four. Only a few people went for **septimus** on Day Three. That’s what I meant. > [@](#): > > Looking scummy – Hirka (oh please, but I’m having my doubts b/c of the other two), Mental Guy, choie > Maybe? – Diver > Must review – gnarly, weedy > Other – Inner, Stanislaus, pedescribe > > To do list: – unvotes. Mental Guy day four Septimus vote. Diver day three Septimus vote. Diver, gnarly and weedy posts. > > Way too much, but I’ll try. What does that “oh please” mean? Y’know, I think I may try to get you to make the promise I was asking of **pizza** that he was too yellowbellied to take me up on. 😃 If it weren’t overall bad for town to mislynch, I’d almost hope you guys do lynch me Today or Tomorrow, just so I can lord it all over **pizza** in the afterlife, and haunt _you_ as well. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2594 "2011-08-23T20:22:04Z")
> [@choie](#): > > Sure they did, after his lynch was already nearly a foregone conclusion, when it was clear that you and me and most of the other townies didn’t buy what **Red** was selling. So maybe if he did tell his scumbuddies about the gambit, they waited to see what your/pizza/my/other townies’ reactions were gonna be to the gambit. I think you’re misunderstanding. Red pulled the remoseful vig thing. Inner, gnarly and (in a wobbly fashion) Hirka bought into it and voted choie. Counted my single vote already there, and Pizza’s votes, that made five people voting you, against everyone else (6, I think?), including Red, voting for Red. Not enough to swing the tide. Doubtful whether it ever could have. Anyway. Red pulls the remorseful thing. Three players jump on, ding ding ding. They aren’t enough; Red is lynched anyway and flips scum. Is this what might have been predicted to happen? I think so. Has it engendered suspicion against gnarly and Hirka in at least a few townies? I think so. Would Red have wanted that to happen, if he was scum with them? Doubt it. I think he would have warned them to stay put. Ergo my instinct says voting for you there was a town tell. Hirka gets excepted a bit for being third to do it and only with a single vote at that, but if gnarly is scum he did the right thing there to fool me. I’ll need more to be convinced of him. > [@](#): > > Or maybe **gnarly** just isn’t a very good scum player? 😃 Heck there have to be _some_ scummy folks who are just as hapless as me as townie. Usually they slip up in some big way, then. Forgetting to bus, almost ever, is a mistake that is usually paired with other ones. I really haven’t noticed anything glaring from gnarly, pending review. > [@](#): > > Confirmed townie **pizza** also felt that **pedescribe** shouldn’t survive the game, so it’s not exactly a scum-tell, is it? All I’m saying is that I think **pedescribe** is a meaniehead for not participating in any useful way. I’m certainly not advocating him over my top suspects. I’m fairly convinced that the top two suspects are **Hirka** and **gnarly** , so anyone else beneath them on the list is just a stab in the dark. Yeah, I don’t think you want to be leaning on Pizza’s opinions right at this point. 🙂 > [@](#): > > Two reasons: > > 1. Because De’endee fell eerily silent after the **pizza** got burnt. 🙂 I mean seriously, did you _see_ how few posts there were this weekend? I figured _someone_ had to pick up the slack, and I kinda felt I owed it to **pizza** to start doing some analysis, or at least what I am pleased to call analysis, anyway. > > 2. Also, as I’ve stated, frankly my confidence in myself has somewhat improved over the last few Days (and days), pretty much ever since y’all voted **ShadowFacts** and I didn’t, and my instincts were right about **Suburban** and **Inner** and **Red Skeezix**. Now I fully appreciate that _you_ have no reason to believe that this “winning streak” is anything but insider-information courtesy of me being scum and ergo knowing everything in advance. But _for me_, I know that isn’t the case. I’m town and do _not_ have perfect information about these people. Something inside my brain was actually working correctly and making the right calls. So, thusly bolstered by my record, I’ve decided that maybe I have something to contribute after all. All right. > [@](#): > > Yep, I was only assuming **Hirka** is scum. I didn’t do a similar analysis of everyone’s posts using the opposite position. Thing is if Hirka is scum, Mental Guy is almost certainly not, so something feels wrong about you rating him so high. You say yourself it’s only because of me, but what have I been right on? Septimus, that’s pretty much it, and I didn’t finish with a vote on him on day two, at that. I’m a townie (to others’ eyes) because I’ve been acting as one and visibly thinking as one, I expect. My vote record is nothing to write home about, except for that one day two vote. Which is why your pushing him up so high on my word alone feels wrong to me. > [@](#): > > Wait, aren’t you the one trying to have it both ways? Yes. 🙂 But I’m a townie, so I’m allowed. More seriously, I know what’s in my own head. I don’t know what’s in yours. And I haven’t seen the sort of consideration of alternatives from you that I’ve been thinking about myself and sometimes talking about. > [@](#): > > You’ve been the one promoting MG as guilty the whole time. So I boost him up on my list slightly, mostly because I’ve been trusting your judgment, and then _BAM_ you use this against me as reason I’m scum with him. Plus I spend most of the post saying why I’m torn about whether he’s guilty or not. That’s called being uncertain, and it’s also called perfectly natural in a game where _no one_ can really be 100% certain of anything. (Except, I guess, scum.) Actually you spent most of that section talking about why he did not feel like scum to you, which is inconsistent with his high placement, whatever you say about my judgment. > [@](#): > > I’ve said this before: some of you players seem to feel that my not being 100% certain of someone’s guilt equals being guilty myself. Bizarrely that’s not a judgment you apply to yourselves, because it’s not like you’re 100% convinced on everyone. You’re okay with weighing the pros and cons yourselves. But you sure as heck love to point the finger at others trying to do the same. Nope. It’s never quite that simple as not being sure. > [@](#): > > What does that “oh please” mean? If it’s the one I’m thinking of, please let him be scum. > [@](#): > > Y’know, I think I may try to get you to make the promise I was asking of **pizza** that he was too yellowbellied to take me up on. 😃 If it weren’t overall bad for town to mislynch, I’d almost hope you guys do lynch me Today or Tomorrow, just so I can lord it all over **pizza** in the afterlife, and haunt _you_ as well. It would be a pleasure, m’lady choie. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2595 "2011-08-23T20:23:05Z")
Oh, and actually six people voted for Septimus on day three, IIRC. Possibly more, there were people (like me and Hirka) off and on. I still don’t know what you’re talking about here. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2596 "2011-08-23T21:22:47Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > I think you’re misunderstanding. > Red pulled the remoseful vig thing. > Inner, gnarly and (in a wobbly fashion) Hirka bought into it and voted choie. Counted my single vote already there, and Pizza’s votes, that made five people voting you, against everyone else (6, I think?), including Red, voting for Red. Not enough to swing the tide. Doubtful whether it ever could have. Five against six? That’s not too bad for a crazy Hail Mary gambit. By the time **Hirka** decided to vote reluctantly for **Red** , that train was just about to leave the station. > [@](#): > > Is this what might have been predicted to happen? I think so. Has it engendered suspicion against gnarly and Hirka in at least a few townies? I think so. Would Red have wanted that to happen, if he was scum with them? Doubt it. I think he would have warned them to stay put. Ergo my instinct says voting for you there was a town tell. Hirka gets excepted a bit for being third to do it and only with a single vote at that, but if gnarly is scum he did the right thing there to fool me. I’ll need more to be convinced of him. Well do pleeeease check his behavior and votes. I just disagree with your reasoning here and I hate to, because I’m not adept at the WIFOM game, and I gotta trust _someone_ as a role model, and basically you and **Stanislaus** are it, **Inner** having fallen strangely silent. > [@](#): > > Yeah, I don’t think you want to be leaning on Pizza’s opinions right at this point. 🙂 HEE! Fair enough. As I said, I’m groping around for guidance here. > [@Normal](#): > > Thing is if Hirka is scum, Mental Guy is almost certainly not, so something feels wrong about you rating him so high. You say yourself it’s only because of me, but what have I been right on? Septimus, that’s pretty much it, and I didn’t finish with a vote on him on day two, at that. I’m a townie (to others’ eyes) because I’ve been acting as one and visibly thinking as one, I expect. My vote record is nothing to write home about, except for that one day two vote. Which is why your pushing him up so high on my word alone feels wrong to me. What can I say, it’s all I’ve got to go on. I’m treading water and dog-paddling while the rest of you seem to be virtual Mark Spitzes (hopefully that doesn’t date me too much!). But honestly I don’t think I rated **MentalGuy** very high on the list anyway. You seem to rate my “D” level a lot higher than I do! If we were doing this visually instead of by letter grades, I’d be writing: **Hirka** **gnarlycharlie** . . . **pedescribe** **MentalGuy** **Weedy** (whom I forgot in my original list) **USCDiver** . . . . **Stanislaus** . . **Normal Phase** . . . . . . **Inner Stickler** Does that make it clearer? I never thought listing someone fourth on a list of seven\* suspects was particularly high. - not counting **Weedy** and **Inner** , since I forgot them. > [@Normal](#): > > More seriously, I know what’s in my own head. I don’t know what’s in yours. And I haven’t seen the sort of consideration of alternatives from you that I’ve been thinking about myself and sometimes talking about. That’s fair enough, but I think you can easily ascribe the reason for that as my lack of confidence and experience. > [@Normal](#): > > Actually you spent most of that section talking about why he did not feel like scum to you, which is inconsistent with his high placement, whatever you say about my judgment. But dadgummit, a **D** isn’t high placement! Dang I wish you’d been around when I was bringing report cards home to my parents. My trigonometry grades would’ve looked a helluva lot better! 😃 > [@Normal](#): > > It would be a pleasure, m’lady choie. When I’m dead and flip town, I’ll hold you to that. 🙂 > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Oh, and actually six people voted for Septimus on day three, IIRC. Possibly more, there were people (like me and Hirka) off and on. I still don’t know what you’re talking about here. Hmm. Well, I guess I was looking at single votes versus double votes, not just how many people were voting. Most people voting **septimus** were singles, which seems to indicate that folks who weren’t really convinced of the **septimus** case, whereas **TexCat** got more doubles and people were far more convinced of her guilt. So to me, numberwise, there wasn’t nearly as big a bus on **sep** on Day Three. But you’re probably right and I’m not looking at this correctly. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2597 "2011-08-23T21:29:12Z")
**Any chance of getting a last-minute vote count, please?** I just noticed that it doesn’t appear that **Inner Stickler** has voted this round. Or am I missing a vote from him? To show our ghostly **pizza** that I _can_ double-vote, I will: **unvote gnarlycharlie** **vote Hirka T’Bawa** and please please let me be right about this. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/db5fbb/32.png) [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hirka_T_Bawa)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2598 "2011-08-23T22:02:19Z")
Looks like I’m going to die. Sorry I wasn’t able to defend myself properly, and had such a suspicious vote record. But, drinking around the world here in epcot so really don’t care right now. Let me just say GO TOWN!!! While I still can. See y’all in the after game discussion. Go town!!! ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2599 "2011-08-23T22:27:22Z")
Sorry folks, some work needed doing at day end. So here, slightly late, is your color! It was a long, slow march to day’s end. The adventurers and townsfolk were tired. Tired of the slaughter, of the backstabbing, of the suspicion. They examined each other wearily. How could they be sure their fellows weren’t hiding their glee at the destruction they had wrought? Finally, Hirka T’Bawa was brought forward. The mayor of De’endee stepped forward. “Hirka T’Bawa, you’ve been accused of-” A sharp green bolt of energy crackled into existence, shattering Hirka’s body. He was dead. All eyes turned to the wizard. “I’ve got other things to do.” She said. **Hirka T’Bawa, an Invoker and one of the Defenders of De’endee, is dead. Night has now fallen, and will last until Wednesday, August 24th at 6 pm.** ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2600 "2011-08-23T22:33:24Z")
Oh godDAMNit. **Hirka** , I’m sorry. **pizza** , if you’re reading this, I’m coming after you with a pitchfork once I’m lynched, I swear to God. Last time I let you influence me. But I gotta accept responsibility for my own part in this mess. I judged wrong and fucked up. Thus endeth the winning streak. (An Invoker is a D&D thing, right? It’s not a power role?) I feel like we’re petering out here and the lack of interest/participation is hurting town like hell. There’s no way we got a full vote from everyone. Bad enough **pedescribe** is incommunicado, but now **Inner Stickler** doesn’t vote either? Come on people, don’t leave the arguing to idiots like me. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2601 "2011-08-23T22:36:09Z")
Allow me to rephrase: **Hirka T’Bawa, an NPC Invoker and one of the Defenders of De’endee, has been killed.** ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2602 "2011-08-23T22:38:43Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Allow me to rephrase: > > **Hirka T’Bawa, an NPC Invoker and one of the Defenders of De’endee, has been killed.** Heh. Ah, thank you, **Astral**. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052.md?page=129) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052.md?page=131)