# De'endee Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [July 6, 2011, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052 "2011-07-06T16:30:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 136
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2703 "2011-08-30T22:00:10Z")
choie - I got confused and thought that Weedy voted MentalGuy twice _after_ I locked in on gnarly. Of course she already had one vote down on MG before I locked in, and the two consecutive posts after where she votes MG were just clarification of her unvote on you. So the sequence was: I lock in (6-3) Mental self-preserves (6-4) choie swaps (5\*-5) Weedy votes MG (6-5) you lock in (6\*-6) If MG had flipped scum, choie would look very suspicious in this scenario. As it is, Weedy made an unnecessary vote to absolutely ensure Mental was lynched ahead of gnarly. The motivation I can see for that is scum defending another scum, specifically the role-blocker. (Either that or Weedy is mistaken town, but very certain about her mistake.) ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2704 "2011-08-30T22:08:44Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > choie - I got confused and thought that Weedy voted MentalGuy twice _after_ I locked in on gnarly. Of course she already had one vote down on MG before I locked in, and the two consecutive posts after where she votes MG were just clarification of her unvote on you. > > So the sequence was: > > I lock in (6-3) > Mental self-preserves (6-4) > choie swaps (5\*-5) > Weedy votes MG (6-5) > you lock in (6\*-6) > > If MG had flipped scum, choie would look very suspicious in this scenario. As it is, Weedy made an unnecessary vote to absolutely ensure Mental was lynched ahead of gnarly. The motivation I can see for that is scum defending another scum, specifically the role-blocker. (Either that or Weedy is mistaken town, but very certain about her mistake.) Ahhhh okay, I see what you meant then. I didn’t realize you were talking about her vote timing vs. yours. But a scum **gnarlycharlie** (if scum he be) wouldn’t necessarily need to be a roleblocker for a scum **Weedy** to want to protect him. If there are only two of 'em left, she’d have been trying to preserve what’s left of her Lordly Kin. Only makes sense that every scum matters (just as every townie does, at this point). ---
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2705 "2011-08-30T22:12:31Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > Hmm. OK - it not being a double-vote waters down my case a little. But it still looks a lot like you were determined to keep gnarly out of trouble. It’s exactly what I hoped to see when I pushed a second suspect - a flinch in the face of risk. > > What do you think of choie now that Mental is town? What do you think of gnarly? Choie is the one who flinched. I don’t understand choie’s behaviour yesterday, as Town or scum, though it makes more sense as scum. She had a vote on Mental Guy, which is a weak vote that she will probably move. Only she doesn’t move it all day, until you decide to stir the pot. Then there is suddenly a chance to lynch gnarly and she jumps on it. She could have vote for him at any point in the day, but it looks like she didn’t want to vote him, unless it got him lynched. Did she suddenly decide to bus? It would have looked pretty good for her, but, wow, brave move. Did she want to get rid of charlie? Maybe she thought he was more likely to vote for her than Mental Guy was. She didn’t double vote. I think if she decided to bus, she would have gone all in, and double-voted charlie on the spot. I think she liked the idea of charlie dead, but didn’t want to look responsible. If she is Town, then she didn’t vote charlie all day for some reason that I don’t know, and then decided to swap at the last minute for some other reason that I don’t know. I mean, nothing changed. No new arguments, charlie didn’t say anything. It’s just that there was suddenly an opportunity to get him lynched. So, yeah, I have ideas what scum choie was up to, but I have no idea what town choie was up to. My thoughts on Gnarly are that he has been pretty uninvolved with the game, and his votes are not great, which he freely admits. I think he is less likely to be partners with choie, both for choie’s vote yesterday, and because he voted for her instead of Red, when Red got lynched. > [@choie](#): > > So yeah, **Mental** ’s flip means nothing to her. The script is written – she was gonna claim I’m scum no matter which way he flipped. Yes, choie. You are my main suspect. My case on you is completely independent of my case on Mental Guy. > [@](#): > > Back to **gnarly** – He returned 20 minutes after EOD acting as if he’d lost the vote and lamenting that he hadn’t been able to save himself – though the count had already been stated as a tie with **Mental** having reached no-man’s-land first. That sounds like base-covering to me. “Look how innocent I am, I couldn’t even be bothered to vote to save myself or keep track of the votes!” > > Or maybe he _is_ innocent and couldn’t be bothered to keep track of the votes. Couldn’t be bothered? Maybe it was really early in the morning for him, and he didn’t get back in time. Though not living in the U.S. is an obvious scum tell, it’s true. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2706 "2011-08-30T22:12:36Z")
Weak, watery light filtered down through the thick cloud cover. The few townspeople still alive wandered out in a daze, their bodies and minds numb. A thin drizzle of rain muted the colors and sounds of the morning. The center of town was gone, the magical fire burning away long into the night. Dozens of houses stood empty, either deserted or the site of grisly murders. The few adventurers left were already awake. “They got Inner Stickler.” “Great.” “How come he didn’t protect himself?” “Mayhaps he was protectin’ somebody else? Or he just plain couldn’t.” “Okay, everyone, listen up!” The mayor shouted. “We’re getting out of here. Pack up what you can.” The barbarian shook his head. “Storm’s gettin’ worse. We get out there,” he gestured at the surrounding woods, “we’ll be picked off one by one by the Lords of Slaughter. Or worse.” The mayor quivered. “Tomorrow, then.” “If we last that long.” **Inner Stickler, a cleric and one of the Defenders of De’endee, is dead. Day has arrived, and will last until September 2nd at 5 pm central time.** ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2707 "2011-08-30T22:12:53Z")
By the way, something I’ve wanted to know – when someone on the Scum side is lynched, do they still have access to the scum boards? Are they able to help strategize and so on? Or do they get locked out so they can’t influence the remaining scumbuddies? I’m just wondering if the remaining Lords are getting any assists from their dead cohorts. My guess is not, since that would be way unfair, but you never know in this game. (Also it’s enlightening to contemplate if there’ve been any changes in strategy as the major power roles and players – highly experienced folks like **Red** and **septimus** – were forced out of the mix, leaving less experience scum behind.) ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2708 "2011-08-30T22:14:29Z")
Well, I’m glad I stayed up for that. Bed now. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2709 "2011-08-30T22:14:43Z")
> [@Weedy](#): > > Couldn’t be bothered? Maybe it was really early in the morning for him, and he didn’t get back in time. Though not living in the U.S. is an obvious scum tell, it’s true. Last time I checked, Florida is part of the U.S. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2710 "2011-08-30T22:24:28Z")
Oy veh, all right, I was wrong about **Inner**. I certainly apologize. In fact, I’m glad I was wrong – it’s a relief not to worry about an unvoteable Scum. It’ll be interesting to see how the next vote pans out. I can already feel the noose around my neck. ---
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2711 "2011-08-30T22:29:17Z")
> [@choie](#): > > Last time I checked, Florida is part of the U.S. :dubious: Florida? In the other game he said he lived in the Philippines. ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2712 "2011-08-30T22:31:16Z")
> [@Weedy](#): > > Choie is the one who flinched. > > \ > > Couldn’t be bothered? Maybe it was really early in the morning for him, and he didn’t get back in time. Though not living in the U.S. is an obvious scum tell, it’s true. Um, this whole post makes no sense. You think choie is scum trying to bus gnarly at the end of the day, but then all of a sudden two paragraphs later he’s not likely to be partners with her because of her votes? That’s pretty kooky stuff man. **vote Weedy** ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2713 "2011-08-30T22:32:35Z")
> [@choie](#): > > By the way, something I’ve wanted to know – when someone on the Scum side is lynched, do they still have access to the scum boards? Are they able to help strategize and so on? Or do they get locked out so they can’t influence the remaining scumbuddies? > > I’m just wondering if the remaining Lords are getting any assists from their dead cohorts. My guess is not, since that would be way unfair, but you never know in this game. (Also it’s enlightening to contemplate if there’ve been any changes in strategy as the major power roles and players – highly experienced folks like **Red** and **septimus** – were forced out of the mix, leaving less experience scum behind.) Generally, they still have access, but aren’t allowed to post. Just like in the Game thread. This game could be different, but yes, that would be considered a bit unfair. ---
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2714 "2011-08-30T22:46:50Z")
> [@USCDiver](#): > > Um, this whole post makes no sense. You think choie is scum trying to bus gnarly at the end of the day, but then all of a sudden two paragraphs later he’s not likely to be partners with her because of her votes? That’s pretty kooky stuff man. > > **vote Weedy** Do you know gnarly’s alignment for sure? Because I don’t. If they are both scum, she was bussing him. If she is scum and he isn’t, she was trying to get rid of him, maybe because he might vote for her. If they are both town, I have no idea what she was doing. I think the second option is the most likely, but I can’t actually rule out any of them. Which ones can you rule out? How do you know? **vote choie** ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2715 "2011-08-30T23:00:09Z")
Let me make sure I got this straight. You’re arguing that \*\*choie’s \*\*voting yesterday was more scummy than yours because she was attempting to bus \*\*gnarly \*\*and yet you don’t think that \*\*gnarly \*\*is scum. I don’t know anything but what I read here. And that doesn’t make any sense. Sure you could argue their alignments both ways, but you can’t then use it as a defense for why your voting was less scummy. If they’re both scum then fine, your voting wasn’t scummy. If they’re both town, then you must be Scum. If one is scum and the other isn’t, then your defense of yourself doesn’t hold water. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2716 "2011-08-30T23:03:24Z")
> [@Weedy](#): > > Florida? In the other game he said he lived in the Philippines. Oh **crap on a bun** , I’m wrong again. SHUT UP CHOIE. :smack: I had been thinking that **gnarlycharlie** was in Florida all this time, but now I realize I was thinking of **Askthepizzaguy**. My apologies to **gnarlycharlie**. (Not that living in Florida’s a bad thing, mind you. Well. Except during presidential elections and hurricanes. :D) ---
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2717 "2011-08-30T23:04:09Z")
Did you not read my whole post, or did I leave half of it out? Let me check. ---
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2718 "2011-08-30T23:21:10Z")
> [@Weedy](#): > > Choie is the one who flinched. > > I don’t understand choie’s behaviour yesterday, as Town or scum, though it makes more sense as scum. She had a vote on Mental Guy, which is a weak vote that she will probably move. Only she doesn’t move it all day, until you decide to stir the pot. Then there is suddenly a chance to lynch gnarly and she jumps on it. She could have vote for him at any point in the day, but it looks like she didn’t want to vote him, unless it got him lynched. Did she suddenly decide to bus? It would have looked pretty good for her, but, wow, brave move. Did she want to get rid of charlie? Maybe she thought he was more likely to vote for her than Mental Guy was. She didn’t double vote. I think if she decided to bus, she would have gone all in, and double-voted charlie on the spot. I think she liked the idea of charlie dead, but didn’t want to look responsible. OK, maybe I have run the ideas together, and should have used two separate paragraphs. I am saying that it is possible that they are both scum, and choie decided to bus at the last minute. It would have got her a heap of cred, but it would be pretty bold. It is also possible that gnarly is innocent, and choie saw a chance to get rid of him and took it. Is there any reason why choie would prefer to get rid of charlie over Mental Guy if both charlie and Mental Guy were town? Yes, there is. Charlie has voted for choie in the past, and Mental Guy has supported her. I think the second option is more likely, because gnarly and choie don’t look like scum partners to me, because he voted for her before (the day Red was lynched). Also, she didn’t double vote, which would have been decisive, and would have looked bad for her if charlie flipped town. I think she just wanted to help that lynch along a little bit, and have someone else finish it off. For completeness: Is there a reason why choie is townie, and suddenly decides at 15 minutes to EoD that gnarly is a better lynch than Mental Guy? I don’t know, but maybe choie could tell us what she was thinking there. I am looking at different options, because I am trying to work out what is going on. As for me, I had a vote on Mental Guy for a lot of the day. I thought choie might switch her vote and she did. So I revoted him. Stanislaus wrote the vote order wrong, which is confusing people, I think. On preview: My previous post was to Diver, not choie. ---
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2719 "2011-08-30T23:36:01Z")
OK, I first voted Mental Guy at 9 hours before EoD. So I hadn’t voted him _all_ day, but it was not a last minute vote the way Stanislaus painted it. I double-voted him after choie voted gnarly, and in response to that. All you choie believers, what do you think she was doing at EoD? Why did she swap votes? Why did she say she would move her vote off Mental Guy, and then not do that, until charlie was close to being lynched? ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2720 "2011-08-30T23:45:07Z")
> [@Weedy](#): > > Is there a reason why choie is townie, and suddenly decides at 15 minutes to EoD that gnarly is a better lynch than Mental Guy? I don’t know, but maybe choie could tell us what she was thinking there. I already said at the time what I was thinking, but I admit that what I’m thinking isn’t always rational. 🙂 First, please do remember that all along I found **gnarlycharlie** less townie than **MentalGuy**. As I said, I voted **MentalGuy** tentatively, influenced by **Normal** ’s steadfast belief in his guilt. I really thought the dead townies should be paid attention to. (Since they’re totally confirmed as innocent.) Then, at the end of the Day, I looked at what seemed like a very sudden pile-on of votes on **MentalGuy** and saw that nearly everyone who’d voted for him was on my “likely to be scum” list. Whereas in **gnarlycharlie** ’s corner was… **Stanislaus** and **MentalGuy**. So ignoring the latter (who would naturally be expected to place a vote on someone other than himself), I was left with **Stanislaus** vs. **gnarlycharlie, Weedy, Inner Stickler** and **USCDiver**. This latter list wasn’t one I wanted to be on – I mean, no offense intended to y’all, but I’m on record as disbelieving **Inner** (sigh), **gnarlycharlie** and **Weedy**. So I said to myself, “ **choie** , fuck loyalty to the dead. Go with your original gut instincts (which were that **gnarlycharlie** seems scummier than **MentalGuy** ) and get the hell off the **MentalGuy** train.” In NYC, sometimes you get on certain subway cars and you don’t like the looks of your fellow passengers. It’s a vibe, y’know? In those cases, a smart NYC gal knows to follow her instincts and change cars ASAP. So that’s basically it. I didn’t immediately double-vote **gnarlycharlie** because I _never_ double-vote simultaneously. It’s in my DNA. (Seriously, the only other time I’ve locked on anyone – **Hirka** – was also not done simultaneously. I hate double-voting so much that I tend to Hamletize before I place that lock on anyone.) When I saw you’d trumped me, I had to place my second vote on **gnarlycharlie** in the vain hopes that **Inner** would see the light and change his vote too. (Though I doubted it because I really really did think **Inner** was scum. IT ALL ADDED UP I tells ya! :D) So. That’s my dealio. Believe it or decry it as thou will’t. ---
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2721 "2011-08-30T23:58:18Z")
I don’t know your schedule, so I don’t know when you were looking at the thread, but there was not a sudden pile-on of votes to Mental Guy, there was a sudden pile-on of votes to gnarlycharlie. People voted for Mental Guy throughout the day. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/2722 "2011-08-31T00:10:53Z")
> [@Weedy](#): > > I don’t know your schedule, so I don’t know when you were looking at the thread, but there was not a sudden pile-on of votes to Mental Guy, there was a sudden pile-on of votes to gnarlycharlie. People voted for Mental Guy throughout the day. I dunno, when I first looked at the thread it was like 3 - 1. Next time it seemed that everyone was double-locking on MentalGuy. So naturally I had to rush to save MentalGuy. Who, let’s not forget, was a _townie_. As far as “well, you’d probably prefer a dead townie **gnarlycharlie** than a dead townie **MentalGuy** ” theory goes… eh. Seems to me that if I were scum, the remaining townies would all just be cannonfodder to me, except **Inner** and **Stanislaus**. Heck, you’ve been on my case way more than **gnarlycharlie** and in fact, he only recently said I looked more townie to him lately. So a scumchoie would’ve won either way. Why make myself look horrible by switching and putting myself through all this tsuris? But this whole post is silly and useless, because if I’ve learned anything, it’s that _any_ defense can be made to look equally guilty with a simple flip of the logic switch. So go on, scheme your schemes and plot your plots to put a noose around my neck. Of course the really funny thing is if you, **gnarlycharlie** and I are all townie and it’s **Stanislaus** and **USCDiver** sniggling behind their hands. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052.md?page=135) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052.md?page=137)