# De'endee Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [July 6, 2011, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052 "2011-07-06T16:30:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/361 "2011-07-14T17:34:13Z")
I must admit some of the mechanics of this game I have not quite wrapped my pheasant brain around. ( will play catch-up with game eyes as opposed to the observer eyes I was using before) To the game I agreed with the beginning of the “Kellywagon” . The attempt at ‘handshaking’ had me wary. And the newest reveal of a vanilla PM altered slightly from the sample (as would be expected from the Mod’s comments about said handshaking) seems too tidy . considering this > [@KellyCriterion](#): > > Thanks **special ed,** does that mean mods have been known to change up even the vanilla town PMs? and this: > [@KellyCriterion](#): > > Can you give an example of how a mod might change up the “same” role PM for different players? Leads me to this \*\* Vote Kelly Criterion \*\* Did you ever reach a consensus on the 2nd votes? ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/362 "2011-07-14T17:38:06Z")
I would be shifting my vote to septimus here, but I have no specific objection to the Kelly lynch. If he is not taken out now, then suspicion will remain and it will be distracting. It’s got to be resolved, and I don’t think Kelly will be able to convince anyone of anything at this point. I also don’t think Kelly is claiming anything critical so its not a big loss either way. Tomorrow, I will be pushing for septimus, unless he winds up dead or something more interesting catches my eye. I think there are things to respond to, but I’ll need to do that later as I’m being held captive by a horrible device known as a “tell-e-fone”, which has the power to sap my strength, my patience, and my will to live, yet forces me to endure its torment in order to pay my debts. A particularly malevolent feature of this torture device is the “on hold” music… it has the power to be repetitive and include music that no one would ever want to listen to, in a short snippet on a loop that only grows more aggravating as the minutes crawl by. ---
**Author:** ![Romanic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a6a055/32.png) [@Romanic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Romanic)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/363 "2011-07-14T17:41:50Z")
> [@koldanar](#): > > damn. Ok, two years off from these games can make you rusty, but i have to assume at this point i’m just bad at this. I’d suggest you can go meta, and see my first days in the past; i think every time i play i get voted on on day one (except once) and every damn time in the past, i was vanilla. I’m a cautious person, and an anxious one. I don’t like to commit until i’m fairly sure of a vote. > > Why respond, if i’m not scum? I take it a little personally :eek:. Not enough to make me not want to play, but certainly enough to respond. > > Now, askthepizzaguy? A me too! Vote on me, when things seem good? Yea, not very nice. You provided no reasoning whatsoever; at least **scathach** tried to justify it. When challenged, you keep repeating that you felt i could generate interest. Not, you find me suspicious, not you can pull apart any posts i’ve made, but simply (to paraphrase) : Look, my first vote generated no interest, and people are voting for koldanar. > **vote askthepizzaguy** > > this, i can get behind. These actions aren’t good. Unless you’re being a lazy townie, and seriously, don’t do that! \ I feel some emotion in this reply, which is more often a sign of a Scum since they have more to lose than Town players. **vote: Koldanar** The OMGUS vote back at ATPG is also a factor in my decision, since it implies even more emotion than if, for example, Koldanar would have looked at other candidates. I also believe that ATPG, for his style, is an easy target, and he will attract scum like flies on a pile of poo, in this game. This is a rushed vote - I thought that I had more time, but five days have passed already and I’m off to work in 30 minutes. I’m not liking either the case on Kelly or ATPG, so I can’t put my vote on either of them. On KellyCriterion, I don’t just feel the case. Him being new, I think it’s more likely that he’s made these moves as Town, rather than a Scum blundering around. However when it comes to new players, I have a soft spot against lynching them on the first Day. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/364 "2011-07-14T17:49:12Z")
I’m going to (weakly) defend **Silver Jan** ’s initial reaction – her _initial_ reaction, let me emphasize again – to **Romanic** ’s post. Because I think I read **Romanic** ’s post was the same way **Silver Jan** did. > [@Romanic](#): > > Got my PM. > > Not happy about a level cap, I’m working on a mod to change that. My first reaction on reading this was that the two sentences were related. In other words, **Romanic** had received a PM that included something about a level cap. This made me do a double-take. Why would someone reveal a power role so blatantly in his/her first post?! But since no one else seemed alarmed/surprised by this, I figured I’d misread it. On giving it a second glance, I realized the two sentences weren’t actually intended to be related. This isn’t my first goof at understanding posts; see my misread of **Normal Phase** ’s role comment yesterday. So if **Silver Jan** ’s reading of that first **Romanic** post was like mine, I totally understand her confusion. What I think people are finding odd is her dogged focus on the joke in subsequent posts, without either getting the joke (hardly a crime if you don’t know about modding video games) or – worse – explaining _why_ she found the comment so unusual. Or I could be totes off base and **Silver Jan** really is smudging the heck out of **Romanic** for no reason. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/365 "2011-07-14T17:57:24Z")
> [@LightFoot](#): > > Did you ever reach a consensus on the 2nd votes? No consensus, but a general idea not to do it unless you have good reason and you state such reason. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/366 "2011-07-14T18:01:02Z")
> [@ShadowFacts](#): > > **Silver Jan’s** vote on **Romanic** bugged me, so I decided to use my lunch to do a review. Sorry for the Wall of Quotes, I think it’s easier to see the whole picture this way. Note: votes have been bleached, some quotes have been snipped to stay on topic. > > **SJ** seems to be obsessed with **Romanic’s** level cap joke right from the beginning. He makes the (to me, obvious) minor joke, **SJ** asks about it, **gnarly** explains. One would think that would have been the end of it. In fact, it’s dropped for a while while SJ votes for \*\*Normal Phase \*\*(bad OMGUS vote), then retracts that, realizing it’s a bad vote. Then she gets into this weird “should I ask this question” exchange, culminating in a repeat question to **Romanic** about the level cap thing. **Normal Phase** explains that this is just a joke, **SJ** seems to accept this and move on, thanks **NP** for the explanation. Then there is a vote on **KellyCriterion** , because “after receiving a vote s/he asked about handshakes. If that had been me I would have jumped up and down defending myself (check the Giraffe boards, I was in tears cos I was called scum{silly too}).” So… because **KellyCriterion** is not reacting as **SJ** would, despite the fact that said reaction is “silly,” she puts a vote on? Later, she gets nervous about the vote, because **Kelly** is now “doing almost the same thing I have done in a different game, assuming other VT’s would understand him.” So, she unvotes and… goes back to vote for **Romanic** on the level cap thing. > > I’m trying to figure out if this is new player adjusting to the game or nervous scum flitting about trying to land a vote somewhere without taking heat for it (or both). (The vote on **Normal Phase** for **NP** saying **SJ** “pinged” her seems particularly high-strung, later retraction aside). It’s not good Town play, that I am certain of. Since this is not her first game, I am not inclined to give her a newbie pass. Let’s see where this takes us: > > **unvote** > \*\*Vote Silver Jan \*\* I unvoted **Kelly** after he posted his PM. **Romanic** pinged me because I didn’t get a level up thing in my PM. I suppose I am claiming Vanilla Town and once again I am not happy with my vote. **Unvote Romanic** This is because of his discusions about when Scum could chat. I know this could be scum trying to not be scummy but it doesn’t feel like it. I don’t do well at analizing everything people say and I tend to vote on a gut feel rather than hard facts. I have been known to find Scum. I can see why I set **Normals** teeth on edge. Now I don’t know who to vote for 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Scathach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Scathach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scathach)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/367 "2011-07-14T18:27:01Z")
> [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > I suppose I am claiming Vanilla Town \ Are you or aren’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/368 "2011-07-14T18:36:36Z")
I think it’s obvious that she is, and I’m inclined to believe her right at the moment. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/369 "2011-07-14T18:39:50Z")
I’m not. It looks to me like she’s trying to bail on a vote that’s garnered more suspicion, while providing cover for not having a vote to lay down by the end of the day. The claim provides distraction, while the explanation (which doesn’t actually explain anything) makes it look like the unvote is justified. **Vote: Silver Jan** ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/370 "2011-07-14T18:42:08Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > … I very much agree with ATPG’s assessment of Septimus’ vote post on him. I have issues with it on its content, but the vote is for its style. It looks very carefully constructed … > Note the formal language (“relevant to reiterate”), and the rhetorical flourishes and transitions in the first section and last paragraph – the middle section does feel more genuine – (“thus”, “but”, “that … makes my decision easy:”, and of course the big rhetorical question itself). It looks like Septimus has put most of this post together very, very carefully, which leads me to believe that the ground is feeling shaky under his feet otherwise. FWIW, I composed it using few minutes in the regular Reply window. When I compose a long message for SDMB (or other boards) I usually instead use my favorite editor. Had I actually spent much time on the post at issue, it might look less contrived. 🆒 In my previous games I was labeled scummish for _brief_ votes, without detailed reasoning and I tried to reverse this – it looks like I still need to find a happy medium. I realize I have a pedantic, perhaps unnatural-seeming tone. I can’t prove this (though you might deduce it from some of my personal posts at SDMB), but I am isolated in rural Thailand and most of my oral communication is in Thai. (I speak English to my two kids – they understand but always respond in Thai :smack: ). If I told you when was the last time I spoke to a native-English speaker you might pity me and/or think I was exaggerating. And many people found me weird even when I did live in North America. For the Lie Detector, if any: I am Town. Right now, I don’t really like any of the scum cases. I’ll leave my vote on **Askthepizzaguy** because I don’t think scum would make the mistakes **Kelly** or **Koldanar** did. Pizza has an interesting style; if he were a regular here he’d probably play like this Scum or Town. If his first outing here were scum, he might have toned it down but, as I say, I don’t like the other cases. Anyway, no hard feelings, Miss Scooby Doo! Will you join me for a drink toNight (if we’re both still alive)? ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/371 "2011-07-14T18:54:26Z")
> [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > I suppose I am claiming Vanilla Town and once again I am not happy with my vote. Is your PM identical to KellyCriterions? Or is it more like the one in the OP? ```auto On a completely unrelated note: **Vote: Septimus** I agree with ATPG's suspicions to some extent, though I am still quite displeased with Kelly's handshake debacle. ``` ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/372 "2011-07-14T18:55:55Z")
Now to test something: **unvote: septimus vote: special ed** In no way do I suspect myself of being Scum. This is a test. it is only a test **Vote Count, please** ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/373 "2011-07-14T19:06:06Z")
> [@ShadowFacts](#): > > And I’m intrigued by this comment. 🆒 Can you be more specific about why the vote changes don’t make sense to you? Do you find them suspicious in some way, or just intriguing? \*\*MentalGuy \*\*unvotes to vote for \*\*Koldanar \*\*([Post 319](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14020234&postcount=319)). He references \*\*Scathach’s \*\*case against \*\*Koldanar \*\*as being “better than any other case made or anything I have been able to spot myself”, but doesn’t exactly say what’s good about it. **Silver Jan** unvotes to vote for \*\*Romanic \*\*([Post 324](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14020462&postcount=324)). Even after reviewing all of \*\*Romanic’s \*\*posts, I’m still not clear what she is referring to, so there is no way I can agree with her vote here. **Normal Phase** unvotes to vote for \*\*Septimus \*\*([Post 338](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14021087&postcount=338)). He takes issue with the post in which \*\*Septimus \*\*votes for **Askthepizzaguy** , and seems to be voting based on that post alone. I don’t personally think there’s anything wrong with that post. I don’t think that any of these vote changes are, in and of themselves, terribly suspicious, but I don’t think that any of them are particularly good votes. It seems a bit like these people didn’t want to be associated with a **Kelly** bandwagon, so they jumped off once it really picked up steam. I’m still trying to figure out what that means. ---
**Author:** ![Scathach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Scathach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scathach)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/374 "2011-07-14T19:08:15Z")
> [@Scathach](#): > > Are you or aren’t you? > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > I think it’s obvious that she is, and I’m inclined to believe her right at the moment. Sorry I really should have been more clear. If she is properly claiming Vanilla town then surely she should have something to say about \*\* Kellys\*\* role pm claim. Either her’s matches or doesn’t but I find it odd she’s not saying either way. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/375 "2011-07-14T19:12:23Z")
What are you trying to accomplish? @ pedescribe: Maybe. This is very much an instinct call right now for me, but I’m not getting the same fakey vibe from this unvote as I did from the two I’ve talked about in the last game. We’ll see. @ Septimus: what the point of the Lie Detector thing? Given no reason whatsoever to believe that there is one, it just looks looks like a pose. I’ll have a drink with anyone, though. @ Scathach: you’re right, she should have said. And still should. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/376 "2011-07-14T19:13:24Z")
NETA: First question was at Ed, I’m trying to do too many things at once here. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/377 "2011-07-14T19:22:53Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > What are you trying to accomplish? Here’s rule 7: 1. If half of the surviving players +2 have locked their votes in by casting two simultaneous votes, the day will end. The required number of “locked in” players will be announced at the beginning of each day. I will round up - 21 players means that there are 13 players requires for the hammer. I was just looking over the rules again. I realized that this was a hammer rule. it’s designed to end a Day early. So that got me thinking, when do we need to end a Day early? When we all agree on a lynch target, right? So that means I’d most likely be using both of my votes on the same person. So why would we hammer if I had 2 different targets? Though, logically, my votes are simultaneous even if they are for different people. I can simultaneously do 2 different things. So that leads me to believe, and maybe I should have just asked the mods a question, which I’ll do now. \*\*Which of these cases would result in my votes being locked in: 1. I cast 2 votes in the same post for the same person. 2. I cast 2 votes in the same post for 2 different people. 3. I cast 2 votes in different posts for the same person. 4. I cast 2 votes in different posts for different people.\*\* ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/378 "2011-07-14T19:23:12Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > For the Lie Detector, if any: > > I am Town. Oh, please…not again…😉 ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/379 "2011-07-14T19:25:47Z")
In an effort to give you all more content from me \* ie Who the heck is LightFoot the dummy that didn’t even know she was in the game \* The subject of leveling up was bandied about early in the day and I don’t recall anyone having the same POV on it as I have. The rational approach (to me) is to make sure you are voting who you\* think is Scummiest. If they are lynched you\* get a ‘bonus’ and level up. If they are not lynched it’s just like any other game . \*generic you ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/380 "2011-07-14T19:25:49Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Yes, but **if you place two votes on one person, you can not unvote them.** That is what Astral mean by “simultaneous votes”. In searching for "simultan’ just now, I came across this post from a mod, which seems to indicate our votes are only locked if we vote for the same person twice. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052.md?page=20)