# De'endee Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [July 6, 2011, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052 "2011-07-06T16:30:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 36
**Author:** ![MentalGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/439d5e/32.png) [@MentalGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MentalGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/701 "2011-07-20T17:28:43Z")
> [@gnarlycharlie](#): > > i’d like to demonstrate but i don’t know how to put all of one person’s posts together unless i do it manually. i looked up all his posts and went through them and found that he’s basically doing what he is accusing me of. > > as for avoiding scum hunting, it’s not deliberate. perhaps you can recall how i play as town and i really tend to observe a lot and get clarification and vote accordingly rather than cross-examine other players. i think like **Silver Jan** , i too still need to develop my scum hunting skills. I usually hit “quote” then paste what I get into notepad and compose my post there. I then repeat as necessary. However, there is a multi-quote button. If you hit it, it should remember what posts you used it on, then when you hit the “Reply to Thread” button, it should show up all the quotes you hit the multi-quote button on. ---
**Author:** ![gnarlycharlie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@gnarlycharlie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarlycharlie)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/702 "2011-07-20T17:28:57Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > The vote on Diver is OK, I guess, but I’d feel better about the one on me if it WAS that you were paranoid about me and Septimus being scumbuddies. This rationale makes no sense; it would have been a stronger vote if you’d left out Septimus entirely. What possible connection does “attempt to make two bandwagons” have to scumminess? i imagine no one likes a vote on them unless you’re **Pizza**. 😃 i have explained my reasoning earlier but i will do a re-read to see if my vote for you will stay or not. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/703 "2011-07-20T17:39:12Z")
Okay since quintuple posting is the preferred option. 😛 I’ll break it up a bit more. > [@special\_ed](#): > > @AskThePizzaGuy and Normal Phase > > How would your individual play be different if you were on the Scum team together? > > I’m not insinuating you are. In fact, I think it quite unlikely. I’m just curious to see your responses. I think the \*one \*time I was on a scum team with Normal Phase (under a different name) I distanced myself from her quite a bit. However, since she was a recruiter and a powerful murdering role, when she was nearly lynched one day I \*\*reversed \*\*my position and said I had scanned her as innocent with a single-use item (since I had “suspected” her). I simply said “trust me, she’s clean”. She was spared from the lynch. Later I elaborated on why. When she was promptly murdered by the opposing team, I suggested that she came up clean because she was a Godfather. I went on to be one of two living people remaining after all the dust had settled (was a 50 person game iirc). If I were scum with Normal Phase I would avoid commenting on her often, but wouldn’t avoid commenting on her at all as that indicates discomfort. I would make every effort to leave no connection between myself and Normal Phase by not placing one-off votes on her (these do not seem genuine and often indicate distancing tactics). If I were to vote for her it would be early, not late, as late indicates bussing and PIS. If I vote her early I will not budge even if she is going to be lynched, unless I find a way I can reasonably explain that someone else looks worse. I may wait for someone else to make such a case, but I’ve established a moving-vote style and therefore I would also be confident in a move away from her earlier in the round if I feel I can get away with it. I won’t budge to save her late in the round. Different circumstances in that game because she was a recruiter, I risked a lot by banking my townie-aura on her being not scum and then she died anyway, proving me a liar or inept. I was able to explain away the results as not my fault due to the circumstances, but that’s a highly unusual scenario. Normally I would not risk as much on sparing her. Should she be investigated that would lead to me being investigated, and if a vigilante or rival scum team exists, her guilt could be proven and that leads directly to me. It’s generally a bad idea to toss much effort into sparing a teammate. As for differently than I’m treating her now- not sure. So far I have not pushed her into the spotlight or agreed or disagreed with her very heavily. I also haven’t completely ignored her. The only difference in my play would be how I’d be more cautious with my life most likely. I think it would fairly well match the current situation simply due to lack of time to generate much deviation from standard. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/704 "2011-07-20T17:41:27Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > While I’m on the subject of **Askthepizzaguy** , let me say that I very much dislike the approach he has taken to this game. Personally, I have a gut feeling that he is Town. Unfortunately, he has provided a fair number of good reasons why he should be lynched (e.g. hypocritical play, unjustified votes, bragging about what a fantastic player he is as Scum). He would have us believe these are designed to make himself an irresistable target for the Scum to vote, but it also makes him a pretty tempting target for town as well. And since he’s told us how nearly unstoppable he is as Scum, can we trust him here? He seems to be playing WIFOM with Town. > > As I say, my gut feeling is that he’s Town, but a part of me wants to see him lynched anyway, because I don’t want to implicitly approve of his playstyle by allowing him to continue it. And whether he winds up Town, Scum, or 3rd-Party, I’m afrain that he has painted himself such an attractive target that we will ultimately learn nothing from the votes against him. The votes, no. In fact I’ve argued that there will be town on my wagon, as it’s pretty much proven that it cannot be just scum. The point is in the content of the discussion, the reasoning for voting me, the reasoning for not voting me, the reactions in general. And not so much those reactions, but if they appear to be genuine or not. It’s designed to give situations where people who are lying may slip up by not sounding honest. You’ll learn nothing from the situation if you don’t bother to look, and that’s the attitude you’ve taken. You’ve already written it off as a waste of time, therefore it will be. That’s on you, I’m afraid. Nothing I can do about that. Maybe I’ll vote for you if I survive because I think your style is therefore sloppy and less diligent? Or perhaps I should just hunt for scum, as that’s more effective. ---
**Author:** ![gnarlycharlie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@gnarlycharlie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarlycharlie)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/705 "2011-07-20T17:46:51Z")
> [@LightFoot](#): > > When I’m plain ol vanilla Town and headed to the gallows I try to create more friction. Share my suspicions…. Rile things up if possible. i think a lot of us will say that you rile things up whatever role you have. 😉 when you’re scum Bill calls it squirming. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/706 "2011-07-20T17:51:40Z")
> [@gnarlycharlie](#): > > i think a lot of us will say that you rile things up whatever role you have. 😉 when you’re scum Bill calls it squirming. 😃 OOG Bill thinks I’m always squirming ---
**Author:** ![gnarlycharlie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@gnarlycharlie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarlycharlie)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/707 "2011-07-20T17:56:58Z")
> [@MentalGuy](#): > > I usually hit “quote” then paste what I get into notepad and compose my post there. I then repeat as necessary. However, there is a multi-quote button. If you hit it, it should remember what posts you used it on, then when you hit the “Reply to Thread” button, it should show up all the quotes you hit the multi-quote button on. the multi-quote button is my idea of manual. i was wondering if there was something that allows me to put all the posts with a click or two. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/708 "2011-07-20T18:03:07Z")
You know, I’ve already responded to this, but re-reading it made me pick up on something a bit off that I’d like to pick on. > [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > While I’m on the subject of **Askthepizzaguy** , let me say that I very much dislike the approach he has taken to this game. Personally, I have a gut feeling that he is Town. This preamble sets the stage with an everyman viewpoint (I dislike his approach = a common viewpoint), and caps with a conclusion that I am town, to seem fair-minded. That seems carefully crafted to get people to pay attention to what comes next. Oh it’s quite reasonable, tell us more: > [@](#): > > Unfortunately, he has provided a fair number of good reasons why he should be lynched (e.g. hypocritical play, unjustified votes, bragging about what a fantastic player he is as Scum). Hypocritical play, maybe. If we’re not thinking about it too hard. Bragging (I would like to compare real bragging with talking about one’s experiences… the latter can be twisted to look like the former by painting it with a negative brush) is a BAD reason to lynch someone. If someone is a braggart they will be so even when they’re a townie. You KNOW that’s not a tell at all. The fact that you would include that as a reason to vote someone tells me that you’re more interested in making this a popularity contest than finding scum. You’re already subtly appealing to popularity with your preamble, and now your justification is I rub people the wrong way? That’s horrendous play. > [@](#): > > He would have us believe these are designed to make himself an irresistable target for the Scum to vote, but it also makes him a pretty tempting target for town as well. And since he’s told us how nearly unstoppable he is as Scum, can we trust him here? He seems to be playing WIFOM with Town. I dunno, can you trust me? You seemed fairly confident I was townie just a moment ago. You think people are incapable of forming a clear opinion on someone because they’re a tempting target? I don’t trust the motivation behind your argument. I also don’t like how it avoids responsibility for the results. That is classically scummy behavior. > [@](#): > > As I say, my gut feeling is that he’s Town, but a part of me wants to see him lynched anyway, You will (rightly) assume others feel the same way. Your argument here provides the subtle motivation here for anyone else persuaded by your arguments to **stop thinking and allow a bad lynch to happen.** That’s devious. > [@](#): > > because I don’t want to implicitly approve of his playstyle by allowing him to continue it. 😕 That’s ludicrous. You’ve already stated how bad you think it is. Here, you make the point of your argument, which is that I should die no matter what I am, and you’ve argued from popularity in order to make that point, and you’re encouraging people not to think. **FOS: Suburban Plankton.** You’re not just sloppy, you’re malevolent here. > [@](#): > > And whether he winds up Town, Scum, or 3rd-Party, I’m afrain that he has painted himself such an attractive target that we will ultimately learn nothing from the votes against him. If you wind up scum, pay heed to this part especially. It sounds as though he may have a partner who could look mighty suspect when I die. None of this sits well with me. I’ve got about a 3/10 scum reading from this post, which is approaching the level I feel toward septimus for his earlier reactions. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/709 "2011-07-20T18:18:30Z")
**Askthepizzaguy** , You obviously don’t care for my playstyle; I can’t fault you for that. And while I disagree with much of what you have to say in your last post, I’m not going to address most of it, because we’d just end up in a battle of “You suck!..Nuh-uh, \*you \*suck!!”, which won’t help anyone. But there are a couple items that need further explanation. > [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > It sounds as though he may have a partner who could look mighty suspect when I die. > > None of this sits well with me. I’ve got about a 3/10 scum reading from this post, which is approaching the level I feel toward septimus for his earlier reactions. 1.) How exactly does it sound like I have a partner, and who would that be? 2.) So you think it’s 30% likely that I’m Scum, which apparently is enough to earn a FOS from you, and this “approaches the level” of suspicion you have for **Septimus**. So exactly how scummy do you feel he is? 35%? 40%? since you place two irrevocable votes on him quite early in the Day, I rather thought you might be at least better than 50% certain of his guilt. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/710 "2011-07-20T18:19:12Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > I can imagine her being coached not to vent her frustration at the votes she’s getting inn the thread, but just to respond to them calmly. That would be very different to how I remember her reacting to pressure before. She was actually pretty calm responding to my pressure from last game. > [@](#): > > When I was talking about “reasonable” I was using the phrase as AskThePizzaGuy used it in his analysis post of Silver Jan’s posts. It really had little to do with her votes. And I’m not accusing all of her response as being coached, just that it’s possible that she’s getting some coaching to appear more reasonable. > > I’m puzzled by the insistence on evidence of this coaching or how it is happening. I’m not privy to it if it is occurring. It’s a thought. It’s quite possible that she’s getting coached. I’ll admit it’s also possible that she’s not being coached and is genuinely Town. I’m just not going to take at face value AskThePizzaGuy’s assertion that her arguments seem reasonable for a town Silver Jan, especially given my experience with her play. I’m trying to get a feel for your genuineness. Coaching is something I’ve seen scum throw out as a hypothesis several times, so I’m dubious of it coming up at all. I’d like to know as best I can where you’re coming from. As regards your other question, though, I think I’ll keep my scum tells to myself, thankyouverymuch. I’m not sure it’s a question I could answer truthfully in any case, even if I tried. @ ATPG – you’re forgetting the Heaven or Hell game. I didn’t do a damn thing in that one, of course, just sat there like a lump and let the townies get herded by you and Takhisis. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/711 "2011-07-20T18:24:53Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > ShadowFacts has been doing the inverse, commenting but not voting. Since this is the second time you tossed out a little comment about this - in response to[this post of mine](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14038699&postcount=576), I believe - it seems like you have a problem with it. Yet you’re being coy, for some reason. Feel free to elucidate. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/712 "2011-07-20T18:29:03Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > **Askthepizzaguy** , > > You obviously don’t care for my playstyle; I can’t fault you for that. And while I disagree with much of what you have to say in your last post, **I’m not going to address most of it** , because we’d just end up in a battle of “You suck!..Nuh-uh, \*you \*suck!!”, which won’t help anyone. But there are a couple items that need further explanation. No, I’d rather not address your points. That wouldn’t help anyone. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > 1.) How exactly does it sound like I have a partner, and who would that be? You’re encouraging people not to examine the folks on my wagon. Any on that wagon will do, for now. But primarily what strikes me as bad is that you’re \*\*discouraging analysis \*\*that will be quite relevant when I flip town. > [@](#): > > 2.) So you think it’s 30% likely that I’m Scum, which apparently is enough to earn a FOS from you, and this “approaches the level” of suspicion you have for **Septimus**. So exactly how scummy do you feel he is? 35%? 40%? since you place two irrevocable votes on him quite early in the Day, I rather thought you might be at least better than 50% certain of his guilt. “approaches the level” in quotation marks? Do I detect the stinky whiff of roll eyes? :rolleyes: \<-----Roll eyes is scummy, except when I do it. Hypocrisy! I love it! First, you’re telling me up front you’re **not going to respond to my points,** then you’re treating my arguments with the \*\*distancing-through-quotation \*\*treatment, and not only that, you’re doing it on a fairly odd snippet of text. On the last point, as I have stated that I’m fairly certain septimus needs pressure, the point of my votes on him was pressure. Unfortunately no one followed me for quite some time, and he’s not responded yet, and he’s not under that much pressure given the Pizza and Janwagons. I’d give septimus about a 4/10 for the case he manufactured on me day one, and I’d leave it at that level given his lack of participation in discussion. He’s an excellent lynch in my mind. You, sir, are only digging yourself deeper with your avoidance of my salient points. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/713 "2011-07-20T18:30:12Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > @ ATPG – you’re forgetting the Heaven or Hell game. I didn’t do a damn thing in that one, of course, just sat there like a lump and let the townies get herded by you and Takhisis. True, but you were a late replacement player and you didn’t say much, do much, or ever really experience pressure. I had forgotten because it was such a bad example of how we would play together. I think the most I told you to do in that game was hush when the discussion stagnated so you wouldn’t stick out. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/714 "2011-07-20T18:41:18Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > “approaches the level” in quotation marks? > > Do I detect the stinky whiff of roll eyes? :rolleyes: \<-----Roll eyes is scummy, except when I do it. Hypocrisy! I love it! > > First, you’re telling me up front you’re **not going to respond to my points,** then you’re treating my arguments with the \*\*distancing-through-quotation \*\*treatment, and not only that, you’re doing it on a fairly odd snippet of text. “approaches the level” in quotation marks in order to indicate that I was quoting you; that is; using the same phrase you had previously used. When I want to express some vague unspoken suspicion, I generally use ‘scary trailing ellipses’… ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/715 "2011-07-20T18:47:30Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > I don’t see where this sentiment is coming from at all. (snip description of my screw-up on Septimus – I conflated a sarcastic remark by Septimus in reference to ATPG’s day one vote on him with Septimus’ reasons for voting ATPG himself) I’m clearly relying too much on the muddled recollections of ATPG, not to mention my own. Let me put all three posts together and see if it still holds. 525: > [@](#): > > I was reacting to complaints from my previous game, where my vote explanations were considered underkill. Perhaps for my pizza vote, “voting for obvious reasons” would have sufficed. > > And BTW, I am somewhat annoyed that your recent suggestion (“Effectively, we decide who dies before the round is over, and spend the last 12-24 hours or so locking in nearly unanimous votes.”) is almost exactly what I proposed yesterDay, and which you argued against at length. (I even expressed the same exact uncertainty whether 12 or 24 hours was better for the end period; see #188) > > I’ve mixed feelings about whether to renew my vote against you. I have no other strong scum candidates, but some of your zaniness and reversals do not seem like what Scum would do. I’m sure you’re capable of a deep double-think “wifom” game as Scum, but would you attempt that in your first game as a relative newcomer to SDMB? (Where do you usually play?) > > BTW, it occurs to me that Lightfoot’s claim might be a beautiful ploy if she were Scum. I guess she’s almost certainly legit however, for fear that the real Investigator might counterclaim. (But I’m not even sure another Cop should hurry to conterclaim; what if there are two Investigator roles?) Paraphrasing the analysis-of-ATPG part: No one is pinging me hard but you, but some of your behavior doesn’t look like scum. You could be WIFOM-ing it, but would you? I don’t know whether to vote you again. 528 ATPG reacts to the defense part (first paragraph) with > [@](#): > > Oh gawd. > > Vote: septimus > > Locking it in, for obvious reasons. I would never do a second vote on something like this, but I see it. Then Septimus’ vote in 572: > [@](#): > > I’ve been rereading pizza’s case against me, and it seems to be groundless. One of his posts caught my eye: > > > [@](#): > > > > I did not read much of the initial debate about what to do about double-voting… > > > > As for Septimus, the case on him is simply that his post where he voted me seemed to be far too much for a day one vote. It was overkill IMO. I could quote that post again, but I’m not really in the mood, and if it didn’t convince you the first time, it won’t the second time. If that costs me your vote, _shrug_ > > Pizza tried to dominate the double-voting debate … yet “didn’t even read it”? > > And the comment that he could “quote my post again” confuses me. Looking back, the following appears to be the only time he’s quoted me: > > (snip a repetition of post 528) > > He’s never made a real case against me, but he wants others to think he did. Maybe he’s “just being anti-Town” but we can’t give that a completely free ride. (Otherwise, Scum could get credibility by acting anti-Town! ) > > Vote: AskthePizzaGuy > > I’m pretty confident about this vote. But I’m only going to vote him once. For all I know, LightFoot will show up and pronounce him Town later on. I still find this scummy in its proper context, though not quite as strongly as previously. The didn’t even read it stuff is pure null tell; I can see it irritating someone, but not tipping the balance between a wobbly uncertainty as described in post 525 and an actual vote. The quoting thing is just irrelevant, regardless who has it right – what does it matter if Pizza quoted you before or just commented on you without quoting? The rest is what might reasonably prompt a vote or not. “Wants other to think his case is more than it is” – I’d guess not, but I could see a votee coming to that conclusion. Null tell. The scummy bit is this: “Maybe he’s “just being anti-Town” but we can’t give that a completely free ride. (Otherwise, Scum could get credibility by acting anti-Town! )” As the conclusion of an argument that winds up placing a vote on someone, this is terrible. It’s what scum do – after making a shallow argument against someone, try to bolster it with “well, even if they’re town, it’s still a good lynch”. I don’t think so. Especially an OMGUS needs to be stronger than this, but this is just words – even as you’re voting him you’re hedging your bets. Conclusion: I was an idiot to assume everything was referenced properly, but the vote stays. > [@](#): > > While I’m on the subject of **Askthepizzaguy** , let me say that I very much dislike the approach he has taken to this game. Personally, I have a gut feeling that he is Town. Unfortunately, he has provided a fair number of good reasons why he should be lynched (e.g. hypocritical play, unjustified votes, bragging about what a fantastic player he is as Scum). He would have us believe these are designed to make himself an irresistable target for the Scum to vote, but it also makes him a pretty tempting target for town as well. And since he’s told us how nearly unstoppable he is as Scum, can we trust him here? He seems to be playing WIFOM with Town. > > As I say, my gut feeling is that he’s Town, but a part of me wants to see him lynched anyway, because I don’t want to implicitly approve of his playstyle by allowing him to continue it. And whether he winds up Town, Scum, or 3rd-Party, I’m afrain that he has painted himself such an attractive target that we will ultimately learn nothing from the votes against him. This is bad too. Some of you guys have to be townies, but however anti-town you think he might be, you can’t step over the line to advocating lynching on a “this guy ain’t helping” basis. You want “free pass for scum”? That’s it. There’s probably five or six townies a game you could get on that basis, if you set your mind to it. Are you voting ATPG? I don’t think I have much chance of catching up properly and still doing the review I wanted on SF, so I’ll just ask. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/716 "2011-07-20T18:52:11Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > This is bad too. Some of you guys have to be townies, but however anti-town you think he might be, you can’t step over the line to advocating lynching on a “this guy ain’t helping” basis. You want “free pass for scum”? That’s it. There’s probably five or six townies a game you could get on that basis, if you set your mind to it. > > Are you voting ATPG? I don’t think I have much chance of catching up properly and still doing the review I wanted on SF, so I’ll just ask. I am not currently voting ATPG. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/717 "2011-07-20T18:59:44Z")
NETA: That last quote in post 715 was Suburban Plankton, not Septimus. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/718 "2011-07-20T19:04:55Z")
> [@ShadowFacts](#): > > Since this is the second time you tossed out a little comment about this - in response to[this post of mine](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14038699&postcount=576), I believe - it seems like you have a problem with it. Yet you’re being coy, for some reason. Feel free to elucidate. I’m trying! I’m still on day one. I keep getting distracted by all the yummy conversation all over the place on day two. To put it simply, you’re poking at him but not really going anywhere with it, and it looks like you’re trying to stir the pot without falling in it yourself. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/719 "2011-07-20T19:15:42Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > To put it simply, you’re poking at him but not really going anywhere with it, and it looks like you’re trying to stir the pot without falling in it yourself. So, in your opinion, I should have voted for **ATPG** based on what I stated in that post? Also, was it just that one comment you were talking about, or are there more? (You seemed to be making a more general comment about my posting). ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/720 "2011-07-20T19:20:33Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > “approaches the level” in quotation marks in order to indicate that I was quoting you; that is; using the same phrase you had previously used. > > When I want to express some vague unspoken suspicion, I generally use ‘scary trailing ellipses’… You are now doing the classic pick-and-choose defense. You’re ignoring the reasons I now find you scummy, but responding to other, easier-to-answer points. You want to know a style I think is bad? Suggesting that other people are bad for the town, then deliberately avoiding direct accusations and reasoning, by choosing to ignore criticism, while essentially advocating that no one bothers looking for clues when someone turns up innocent on death. Your reasoning for their being bad includes perceived bragging, btw. Using your own logic we should lynch you for being uncooperative and advocating a strategy of ignorance for the town at large. Don’t think, just let it happen, and don’t examine why it happened later. If you **disagree** , I’ll \*also \*get to accuse you of… hypocrisy 😃 After all, your demonstrably bad argument is at least as bad as whatever you think I’ve done. Therefore, you must think town would be better off without you. Overkill if I continue. You’ve shattered any illusion of reasonable pro-town expectation I may have had from you now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052.md?page=35) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052.md?page=37)