# De'endee Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [July 6, 2011, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052 "2011-07-06T16:30:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 40
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/781 "2011-07-21T02:43:11Z")
> [@Weedy](#): > > You are not suspicious for having two votes. You are suspicious for making up reasons to vote (obviously), which I thought you were with Jan, based on the two posts I quoted. Oh, god, now I have to go reread all your posts on her. The two votes issue is just that I wondered why you would bother to make up a vote on someone, when you already had one. > > Did you vote for Normal? Was that because she was ‘scary’ or am I misremembering? > > I am saying I will do all this rereading, but I don’t know if I am going to have time. but I had a reason for voting Silver Jan. it was that icky post I quoted when I voted for her. The one asking for Townie Cred for being right about Kelly as well as saying that she moved her voted because she’s powerless Town, oh and by the way, she’s Vanilla Town ---
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/782 "2011-07-21T02:48:01Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > Well, here’s the thing: > > Their player classes didn’t match. > > I asked Normal about it. She replied that it did cause her concern, since hers was similar to Silver Jan’s but she still wasn’t sure how far the handshaking remedies went. > > I asked Silver Jan, she replied that she hadn;t noticed, which is why she believed KellyCriterion. And now that it was pointed out…nothing. No “They are different…hmmm” “No, I think it’s still likely we’re both Town.” No anything. > > It seems unusual, and it leads me back to thinking maybe she had no reason to doubt KellyCriterion because she knew Kelly wasn’t Scum, and she had a Vanilla cover role. > > Now, yesterDay, with the similarities between normal and Silver Jan, I believed them.\*\* Obviously that was wrong as Kelly was telling the truth. > \*\* > While that doesn’t mean Silver was lying, it still surprises me that the difference in the PMs was so unimportant to her. > > couple that with what I’ve pointed out toDay and her desire for Townie cred for being right about Kelly, and it leads me to suspect her. Why was that obviously wrong? ---
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/783 "2011-07-21T02:48:38Z")
I believed Silver Jan’s claim yesterday after Normal backed it up with her own. I still believe it toDay. I think her play style of OMGUS voting and towniness proclaiming is not pro-town, but I believe her. If she just claimed to have some method in her madness and a way far better opinion of herself, she could give PizzaGuy a run for his money. I was suspicious yesterDay of Ed. When Kelly tried to handshake, I thought WTF, didn’t he have this whole discussion of handshaking with Ed, and didn’t Ed tell him that it wasn’t possible in this game. When I got ready to vote for Kelly and actually looked back at the posts, I discovered that Ed didn’t mention that fact at all. [Posts starting here and continuing a little ways.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14015929&postcount=218) He certainly jumped on Kelly after the handshake attempt, but did little to prevent it. Was he setting Kelly up? ToDay, I have not liked the way that Ed has chided Silver Jan at every opportunity, but seems to be waiting for someone else to make the case and start voting her. Since I think Silver Jan is town, this looks to me like scum Ed is looking for an easy town lynch. None of these reasons are definitive, but my gut is telling me that Ed is scum. \*\*vote: special ed \*\* ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/784 "2011-07-21T02:52:38Z")
> [@Weedy](#): > > Why was that obviously wrong? Imagine this: Someone claims with Vanilla with a PM that is different from your Vanilla PM but identical to the sample one (aside from the order of info). You don’t notice the glaring difference between your Character Class and his. Then, it’s pointed out to you. You say you didn’t notice, but you believed the claim anyway. Another player claims with a PM very similar to yours to back you up, but different from the other player. Much suspicion is cast on the other player for this glaring difference. he, in fact, gets lynched. You still don’t comment on the glaring difference, but attempt to get Townie cred because you were right. ```auto So, in short, I would have expected her to, at some point, at least make a comment on the difference in the PMs. She just completely ignored the topic (as far as I can tell. I didn't find any comments on it other than that she didn't notice it) ``` ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/785 "2011-07-21T02:55:39Z")
Hey Silver Jan! 😃 As a fellow helpless on the chopping block with a lethal case of talks-too-much syndrome, I’d first like to offer you my special hugs and sympathies. Secondly, thank you for looking for people who need lynching rather than just trying to spare yourself. I appreciate it, although like I said I feel like giving relief to some of the people crying out for a break from pizza wouldn’t be a horrible outcome. Thirdly, believe me I know it is frustrating. You’ve already claimed VT so think of this as a less than great way to keep town power roles alive. Lynching a doctor or whatever just to try to spare oneself would be a worse outcome than dying. We’re cannon fodder and that’s what we do. As long as we exist, we can either assist with lynching the scums, or unfortunately, provide cover for them to hide in. Don’t let it get to you, even if you get lynched early here, it’s not a pattern people like to repeat often. I went through a few games at another site where I was lynched early so often that I just started voting myself D1 every game until they stopped. They’ll get bored with it. So it’s just a temporary setback. Most everyone gets a turn to have fun and be the hero if they play in enough games. It took me 80 games or so just to have a couple dozen where I put on a performance I could be proud of. The key is patience. (You mean like voting septimus again on gut-reflex for pressure, locking it in early? Yeah… do as I say, not as I do.) 😛 You’re an active poster who is usually quite fun to talk to, I can already say. You try, and you seem to care. That’s all people really ask for. There’s a thread I posted about what makes a good player, on another site… and it just boils down to showing up and trying. Then, having a good attitude really. That’s all! No one is going to blame you if YOU get lynched and you turn up townie. I’ll personally congratulate you for fooling the bejeezus out of me if you get lynched and you turn up scum. No one would hold a grudge if in your zeal to lynch scums you hit a doctor. I’ve lost tons of games, some I can blame squarely on me alone. But I was trying. Just take a deep breath. You \*did \*try. Win or lose, you put out the effort for your team. If you get lynched as townie it’s the team letting you down, not the other way around. Unless you’re pizza and you make yourself a tempting target, then it’s partly my bad. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/786 "2011-07-21T02:57:45Z")
> [@TexCat](#): > > I believed Silver Jan’s claim yesterday after Normal backed it up with her own. I still believe it toDay. I think her play style of OMGUS voting and towniness proclaiming is not pro-town, but I believe her. If she just claimed to have some method in her madness and a way far better opinion of herself, she could give PizzaGuy a run for his money. > > I was suspicious yesterDay of Ed. When Kelly tried to handshake, I thought WTF, didn’t he have this whole discussion of handshaking with Ed, and didn’t Ed tell him that it wasn’t possible in this game. When I got ready to vote for Kelly and actually looked back at the posts, I discovered that Ed didn’t mention that fact at all. [Posts starting here and continuing a little ways.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14015929&postcount=218) He certainly jumped on Kelly after the handshake attempt, but did little to prevent it. Was he setting Kelly up? > > ToDay, I have not liked the way that Ed has chided Silver Jan at every opportunity, but seems to be waiting for someone else to make the case and start voting her. Since I think Silver Jan is town, this looks to me like scum Ed is looking for an easy town lynch. > > None of these reasons are definitive, but my gut is telling me that Ed is scum. and, obviously, I must be sticking my neck out to prevent a lynch of…? someone else? It is true, I never said handshaking wasn’t going to work. So, was my devious plan to encourage a known Town player to handshake so that I could jump out and attempt to stop any one from commenting on the handshake and also attempt to put an end to it. How devious of me to answer Kelly’s questions in such a way to encourage him to actually try to handshake. That’s it! My role must be Scum Brainwasher! ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/787 "2011-07-21T03:03:46Z")
I’m not following this case on special ed. I admit I’ve been lost in my own side quest versus septimus and others. I guess I can not be lazy and I’ll go back and see all the reasons why special ed is being voted. I’m pretty sure I’ve been reading most of ed’s posts though, nothing jumped out and bit me, but maybe a re-read. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/788 "2011-07-21T03:05:03Z")
This forum does have a strong history of lynching loud players. I’d also like to encourage Silver Jan that despite my vote on her, I enjoy playing with her and hope she doesn’t take any of this personally. > [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > Hey Silver Jan! 😃 > > As a fellow helpless on the chopping block with a lethal case of talks-too-much syndrome, I’d first like to offer you my special hugs and sympathies. ---
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/789 "2011-07-21T03:18:57Z")
Here is the post where Ed explains his vote on Silver Jan [679](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14043323&postcount=679). Still need to look at SJ’s comments about Kelly. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/790 "2011-07-21T03:57:52Z")
> [@ShadowFacts](#): > > If I may quote **special ed** : bah. > > That’s a simple request for people to engage in pro-town methods of voting. You \*might \*(and I emphasize might) have a case if that’s all I ever posted, but I’ve got plenty of analysis, votes and “concrete opinions” on record in this game. Unlike some other posters I could mention. Crap vote, in my not-biased-at-all opinion. 🆒 Hmm. Well, let me take a look back at what you claim is plenty of analysis, votes and concrete opinions. (spoilered, so It doesn’t take up a whole damn page). > [@ShadowFacts](#): > > Bummer. Now I \*know \*it was a good idea. Noise, but it was early in day 1. > [@ShadowFacts](#): > > I think the double-vote mechanism is likely more harmful than helpful, but it’s new so we’ll need to see how it plays out. That said, \*\*SP \*\*is correct on policy-based voting. Each vote (and double-vote) should be looked at independently, the voter can be questioned if you don’t like the vote, etc. No need for black/white rulesets. > > Another aspect to the double voting is that we have a hammer in this game. Double voting will allow scum to get a hammer on someone more easily (though also possibly more transparently as well). Most likely to be a problem near the endgame, I would think. Discussing the double vote mechanism. Signal. > [@ShadowFacts](#): > > I tried to organize something like this in one of my first games here (may even have been the first, I can’t remember). It was impossible, because it only works if everyone does it, and not everyone will do it. And it’s impossible to enforce, because there are a host of reasons - often involving real life - why one might not make the deadline(s). Based on my experience, I just don’t think it’s feasible. Anecdote about possibility of pre-dead line. Signal > [@ShadowFacts](#): > > Uncontroversial, yes. Obvious, certainly. And yet some people still did not seem to get the memo. Perhaps there should have been a few more repeat posts about justifying votes. 😛 > > A bit more directly, I find **Askthepizzaguy’s** vote here to be terrible and his follow-up explanation even worse, as others just above have already outlined. I need to review the case against **KellyCriterion** (where my vote currently sits) to see which actions I like less before I decide if I will change, though. I’m at work right now and squeezing in this game between meetings. Agreeing with ed that people think justifying votes is being said too much. Pizza’s vote is terrible, but you want to review case against Kelly. Noise. > [@ShadowFacts](#): > > **Askthepizzaguy** , I’m getting a sense of your defense and we’ve had “stir the pot” type players on these boards before (most notably, IMO, peekercpa). So my suspicion of you is starting to lessen with your explanations. However, I still can’t quite get over this contradiction that **septimus** pointed out earlier. You said: > > Allow me to summarize the problem I see with your explanation: > > (paraphrasing) > > 1. I prefer to lead cases as opposed to following others. (OK, no problem). > 2. I tried to lead with **Skeezix** , but nothing was happening. (OK, no problem). > 3. **Kelly** was getting enough heat, so I wanted to put pressure on someone else. (OK, no problem). > 4. So, vote **Koldanar**. (Problem!) > > If you haven’t figured it out yet, the problem I see is that your actions pretty much directly contradict your words in the same post. If you don’t want to follow others, why did you follow the case against **Koldanar**? To use your own explanation, “[You] have no idea if [people accusing **Koldanar**] are guilty, and if they are, then the odds are poorer that I’d be wagoning a guilty person, just by virtue of the fact that the evildoers are not as likely to point fingers at their buddies.” > > I’d like to hear your explanation for this. Continued poking of Pizza. But prefaced with you think Pizza is town. > [@ShadowFacts](#): > > Just read through the most recent posts. I don’t have time for a full analysis right now, but wanted to throw my $.02 in that **KellyCriterion’s** behavior is reading like a flailing newbie right now. The question is: flailing newb town or flailing newb scum? I’m leaning town, actually. I’m going to re-evaluate my vote when I read more carefully at lunch, but for now I thought it might be useful to put my current state of mind on the record. > > I should also mention that my other suspect so far was **Askthepizzaguy** , but I find his answers to my (and others’) questions plausible. Despite his obvious Mafia Ego :p, my suspicions of him have been mostly alleviated for the moment. First paragraph is noise. Kelly is playing like a newb. You are leaning town, still voting for Kelly. Second paragraph: Pizza still town. So 50/50. > [@ShadowFacts](#): > > And I’m intrigued by this comment. 🆒 Can you be more specific about why the vote changes don’t make sense to you? Do you find them suspicious in some way, or just intriguing? Clarification question, noise. > [@ShadowFacts](#): > > **Silver Jan’s** vote on **Romanic** bugged me, so I decided to use my lunch to do a review. Sorry for the Wall of Quotes, I think it’s easier to see the whole picture this way. Note: votes have been bleached, some quotes have been snipped to stay on topic. > > **SJ** seems to be obsessed with **Romanic’s** level cap joke right from the beginning. He makes the (to me, obvious) minor joke, **SJ** asks about it, **gnarly** explains. One would think that would have been the end of it. In fact, it’s dropped for a while while SJ votes for \*\*Normal Phase \*\*(bad OMGUS vote), then retracts that, realizing it’s a bad vote. Then she gets into this weird “should I ask this question” exchange, culminating in a repeat question to **Romanic** about the level cap thing. **Normal Phase** explains that this is just a joke, **SJ** seems to accept this and move on, thanks **NP** for the explanation. Then there is a vote on **KellyCriterion** , because “after receiving a vote s/he asked about handshakes. If that had been me I would have jumped up and down defending myself (check the Giraffe boards, I was in tears cos I was called scum{silly too}).” So… because **KellyCriterion** is not reacting as **SJ** would, despite the fact that said reaction is “silly,” she puts a vote on? Later, she gets nervous about the vote, because **Kelly** is now “doing almost the same thing I have done in a different game, assuming other VT’s would understand him.” So, she unvotes and… goes back to vote for **Romanic** on the level cap thing. > > I’m trying to figure out if this is new player adjusting to the game or nervous scum flitting about trying to land a vote somewhere without taking heat for it (or both). (The vote on **Normal Phase** for **NP** saying **SJ** “pinged” her seems particularly high-strung, later retraction aside). It’s not good Town play, that I am certain of. Since this is not her first game, I am not inclined to give her a newbie pass. Let’s see where this takes us: > > **unvote** > **Vote Silver Jan** Unvote’s Kelly. Despite leaning town for quite a bit. Switches to Silver town. Signal. > [@ShadowFacts](#): > > Thanks for responding. I see what you are saying now. As it happens, I just changed my vote as well to **Silver Jan**. What do you think of it? Noise. > [@ShadowFacts](#): > > Well, I know my memory is not as sharp as it used to be, but I do recall there being a role reveal… sometime in the recent past. Oh yeah, here it is! > > 😉 > > So, we are either dealing with a game mechanic whereby we get role reveals for lynches but not for night kills, or some kind of power was at work to disguise **Scathach’s** role. (Or some third crazy option I can’t think of). I’ve never heard of anything like that kind of game mechanic and I think “Sadly, there isn’t enough left of him to identify” points to some specific thing happening, so I say the smart money is on option 2. > > The shitty part of this, of course, is that (possible investigators notwithstanding) we know nothing more right now than we did after **Kelly’s** reveal. Your opinion is that it’s a janitor type role. Also, you state that we know nothing new. 50/50. > [@ShadowFacts](#): > > And here are all of **Scathach’s** posts from the game (minus two inconsequential ones about level cap - you can look them up if you feel it’s necessary). > > Haven’t actually read through them yet, but here they are. Noise. > [@ShadowFacts](#): > > I’m also going to make a request to all: when referring to previous cases from previous Days that you are following up on, please \*\*quote \*\*or \*\*link \*\*to the posts in question. \*\*ATPG \*\*does a summation (and expansion) of his thoughts from yesterDay, but without context, it’s not compelling. Yes, I could (and may still) go back and check it out, but I believe it is incumbent on the person making the case to show me all the evidence and convince me. It’s the pro-Town thing to do, and I think you in advance. 🙂 > > **ATPG** , in this post, your case against \*\*septimus \*\*seems particularly vague - it’s all about his wording and level of certainty. If you want to convince me or anyone to vote for **septimus** , I suggest you tell us exactly what he said that tipped your scum-meter. You know, with quotes and stuff. If you’ve already done this, that’s cool, just link us to it. Noise. > [@ShadowFacts](#): > > I agree with you that the strong assumption is that \*\*scathach \*\*was a mafia kill and was thus a townie. I am proceeding on that assumption for now. That said, I don’t \*know \*any of that, so I believe my original statement was true, even if it was just a toss off comment. I hardly think it merits a vote, but YMMV. Sophistry, and noise. BTW, your original statement is not true. We know at that point that scathach was the victim of some sort of killing action during night 1. > [@ShadowFacts](#): > > I’m trying to figure out the rationale for not revealing your info. Since you already revealed yourself, why not reveal your results? Obviously, I can see reason not to reveal a particular role, but I’m not seeing any reason not to reveal alignment. What’s the downside? > > (And let me say “reveal” one more time, because five was not enough.) :smack: Fishing for info. Noise. I fail to see the relevance of your question, other than a thinly veiled attempt to get Lightfoot to change their mind. > [@ShadowFacts](#): > > I’m obviously not as good a player as you think I am 😃 so allow me to explain my thoughts. The following assumes **LightFoot** is legit. Scum already know who is Town (or Not Scum), so revealing the Good alignment that she discovered give Scum little to no useful information, and gives Town a big whopping confirmed player we can trust. The downside, as you’ve explained, is that it paints a target on that person, who might be an important power role. I admit that I had not thought that through fully (see my first sentence). > > Despite that, I _still_ think it’s more of a benefit to reveal. Scum will have to choose who to try to kill: “confirmed” Townie who may or may not be a power role? **LightFoot** , who may or may not be protected by a Doc? Tough WIFOM. > > The downside to not revealing, of course, is that if **LightFoot** is killed, we get nothing. Absolutely nada. We’ve handed our Seer over to the Scum for no benefit. That’s a pretty big downside, IMO. > > And all _that_ said, I’ve long been an advocate of “trust your power roles.” They presumably have more info. So, I’ve made my opinion known, but **LightFoot** should play it how she sees fit. A detailed explanation of why you were fishing. Signal. Although, you’ve taken two sides of the coin here. Either you think power roles should do what they deem best, or you think that they should be open to suggestions. > [@ShadowFacts](#): > > Do you just reflexively vote anyone who has suspicion on you, or what? :dubious: > > I’ve been chewing on what to do about you for a bit. I moved my vote off of **KellyCriterion** yesterday because his reaction to being vote leader, while not wise, felt townie to me. So I looked at your posts and ended up voting for you. I felt as good about that case as one normally can for Day One. But your reaction to gathering votes felt similar to **Kelly’s** reaction, and I began to have doubts. But it was late in the Day and **Kelly** was clearly going to swing, so I didn’t remove my vote, figuring I would wait to see what you said toDay. > > I’m not encouraged so far. First, you haven’t posted anything until now, which makes me think you’re keeping your head down and lying low. (Not a townie thing to do). When you finally come in, it’s only to place a lame OMGUS vote on **choie**. You did a similar thing yesterDay, voting for **Normal Phase** because she said you “pinged” her. Your reasoning: “I am definitly Town in this game so all Normal has on me really is from metagaming…” Ugh. I gave you some credit, though, because you came back and unvoted, realizing that was a bad vote. But now you’re back doing the exact same thing! > > **vote Silver Jan** > > (And just to follow my own excellent advice, [here is a link](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14021896&postcount=360) back to my case on Silver Jan yesterDay.) > > I am considering using my second vote to get the attention of some people who are not posting, but I’ll try some regular encouragement first: Let’s go people, it’s Tuesday, and some folks have no posts at all toDay. Lame! I’m not sure why you are giving credit for unvoting a bad vote. If it was a legit mistake like someone counting wrong or something, then maybe. But I don’t get this idea at all. Also, cheerleading. Signal + noise at the end. > [@ShadowFacts](#): > > NETA: > > Also, I am increasingly convinced by the case against **AskthePizzaGuy** and his excuses are less convincing toDay than they were yesterDay. Pizza is no longer town. I’m confused by this line of reasoning as well. His excuses toDay aren’t that different from yesterday. Why are they less convincing? Possibility of foreshadowing a move to Pizza. Signal. > [@ShadowFacts](#): > > I did remove my vote from **KellyCriterion**. It was YOU I kept my vote on. Correcting a misconception. Signal. > [@ShadowFacts](#): > > If I may quote **special ed** : bah. > > That’s a simple request for people to engage in pro-town methods of voting. You \*might \*(and I emphasize might) have a case if that’s all I ever posted, but I’ve got plenty of analysis, votes and “concrete opinions” on record in this game. Unlike some other posters I could mention. Crap vote, in my not-biased-at-all opinion. 🆒 Defense against my vote. Now that I’ve gone through and reread your posts up to this point, I see you do have plenty of signal to go along with your noise. The ratio at this point is neither flattering nor damning. A quick break in the review, just to jot down my thoughts. You spent enough of day 1 thinking that pizza was town that you felt the need to distance yourself from that position today. You say you think Kelly is leaning town at one point, but keep your vote on him anyways. You try to take both sides on whether Lightfoot should reveal results. I see some possiblities for this: Lightfoot may not understand implications, so you are trying to encourage good play. You are trying to defuse your own attempt to change Lightfoot’s mind. Side note: Personally, I am of the opinion that Lightfoot should reveal results on the outside chance that Lightfoot is scum, and gets caught in a lie. Posting results at end of night seems to alleviate this. Especially since I believe there to be third parties in this game. In a game with no third parties, it’s possible for scum to claim cop, and give truthful results. It’s much harder if there’s third parties floating around. I do however, think that Lightfoot’s claim is unlikely if Lightfoot is scum, since it would be a very risky play indeed. You have made a couple of posts which the entire point seems to be to make yourself look more like town directly (as opposed to indirectly, by simply doing townie things). You have gone far enough to imply that both doing what you suggest is pro-town, and suggesting what you suggested is also pro-town. Then there is this post: > [@ShadowFacts](#): > > Gods help me, but I have to admit that **PizzaGuy’s** analysis of **Silver Jan** was pretty convincing. \*\*Normal Phase’s \*\*addition to that analysis also makes sense (despite the fact that she is gunning for me). I still don’t think **Silver Jan** is playing well, but that is not by itself scummy, so > > **Unvote Silver Jan** > > In related news, I am completely conflicted about **PizzaGuy**. He’s had at least two blatant examples of his actions contradicting his words. Normally, I would vote something like that damn quick and be pretty confident about it. But I can’t quite pull the damn trigger. The bandwagon that he’s on right now feels like an easy “lynch the loud” train and his participation is solid, even if I disagree with his methods. He’s driving me crazy, to be honest, but despite it all I am leaning Town on him. I don’t think I’ll vote for him toDay. (That said, I do think his case on **septimus** is really weak). > > Which leaves me with…no votes right now. Back to the drawing board. Considering that I’m pretty convinced that SJ is scum, I don’t think Scum would unvote a vote leading Scum at this point in the day. It just doesn’t fit. The unvote itself comes into question (especially given the distancing and undistancing from pizza), plus any later votes would be super suspect. I just don’t see scum making this kind of risky play this early in the game. Plus it would be hugely inconsistent with the other pieces that seem scummy to me that you have posted. **unvote ShadowFacts** ---
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/791 "2011-07-21T04:04:27Z")
On SilverJan: After her reply to ed (that Kelly’s PM wasn’t different to hers) Scathach and Suburban Plankton both point out to her that her class is different. She doesn’t respond to that, though she does respond to Scathach’s comment about her familiarity with D&D. Then Normal Phase shuts down discussion (or provides an excuse to at least) and Day ends. So Jan did avoid the issue a couple of times. Furthermore, there is this: > [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > Maybe I am a bit thick but I would love to know what NPC means > [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > So why was that in my PM as I am obviously plaing? > playing > [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > Intersting 🙂 so I am controlled by the dungeon Master, thanks 🙂 > > I still don’t know if who I voted for is right but I am a little Townie. Kelly’s PM said NPC townsperson but SilverJan never connects ‘NPC’ to him. It’s like she didn’t even look at his PM. She just knew he was Town. **vote SilverJan** ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/792 "2011-07-21T04:18:16Z")
flip . . . . . . flop hehehe ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/793 "2011-07-21T04:41:27Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > flip > . > . > . > . > . > . > flop > > hehehe From someone that posts whilst they are ‘catching up’ that seems small \*\* Ed \*\* ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/794 "2011-07-21T04:58:13Z")
> [@LightFoot](#): > > From someone that posts whilst they are ‘catching up’ that seems small \*\* Ed \*\* I was just kidding, see the hehehe? ---
**Author:** ![Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/db5fbb/32.png) [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hirka_T_Bawa)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/795 "2011-07-21T05:28:56Z")
Hey, been busy, just now reviewing the game… I’m on post 257 of 794… so have a while to go… I see that my predecessor has already placed his two votes for the day… My question is, am I up against a deadline? When is this day scheduled to end (assuming no hammer[unless of course we are close to the hammer])? Do I need to rush to the end, or do I have time to finish reviewing properly? ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/796 "2011-07-21T05:30:29Z")
Someone can correct me on this, but I think the day ends around 6-7 PM EST USA today, so the better part of a day. You can take your time I think. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/797 "2011-07-21T05:31:36Z")
> [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](#): > > Hey, been busy, just now reviewing the game… I’m on post 257 of 794.. so have a while to go… I see that my predecessor has already placed his two votes for the day… My question is, am I up against a deadline? When is this day scheduled to end (assuming no hammer[unless of course we are close to the hammer])? Do I need to rush to the end, or do I have time to finish reviewing properly? We’re into the next Day already. I think you have about 17.5 hours. I don’t think you have any votes on record for toDay ---
**Author:** ![Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/db5fbb/32.png) [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hirka_T_Bawa)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/798 "2011-07-21T05:45:11Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > Someone can correct me on this, but I think the day ends around 6-7 PM EST USA today, so the better part of a day. > > You can take your time I think. > [@special\_ed](#): > > We’re into the next Day already. > > I think you have about 17.5 hours. I don’t think you have any votes on record for toDay Thank y’all, I was a little confused by **Astral** ’s vote count, when I glanced at it I thought the votes against me were really the votes my predecessor placed… That’s what I get for skimming for mentions of me after the announcement I took over before studying the thread. Well, back to reviewing the thread, hope I can get through it before the wife comes and yells at me to get to bed 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/799 "2011-07-21T08:07:37Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Askthepizzaguy (4): pedescribe, pedescribe, Spetimus, USCDiver > … > As always, please check the vote count for errors. Does the vote by **Spetimus** count? 😃 Even with correct spelling I’d want to change my SDMB user name. I was ready to switch to **Dr. Strangelove** (my name in Halloween Mafia!), but some SDMB newcomer grabbed the name as I was about to. :smack: There has been a lot of discussion here recently, good cases being made, and I have some suspicions of my own. Real life is using up my time, however, and I’ll need some time to evaluate the cases. I’m rushing out the door right now, but I’ll force myself to make some time later on my “graveyard” shift. I’d like to defend myself from the charges against me, but I don’t understand them. Was there an element of OMGUS in my vote against **Pizza**? Probably, I see errors most clearly when they’re directed against me. Some of my posts were misinterpreted. When I said I “liked” **choie** ’s post, I was speaking more of the type of post, rather than any strong Townie smell. Many of you prefer short cryptic posts; I can’t gauge the sincerity of a post I don’t even understand. I’ll leave one vote on Pizza for now, but hope to get a large block of time for study later. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/800 "2011-07-21T08:36:46Z")
I am back, with a hangover from hell and back ☹ I didn’t mean to lock myself in but I was mad 🙂 and yep **Ed** still looks scummy! @ **Weedy** , I know you didn’t think I was scum in the last game but this is a different game. I can’t be scum all the time 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052.md?page=39) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052.md?page=41)