# De'endee Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [July 6, 2011, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052 "2011-07-06T16:30:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 45
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/881 "2011-07-23T15:36:19Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Sorry if I shocked or offended with my last-minute vote, but it seemed very clear to me that it was correct. Had **Silver Jan** flipped Scum, I’d have been a hero. Big whoop. She flipped town and you still haven’t explained why you thought it was necessary to prevent any discussion or response to your votes. PROTIP: when one person takes it upon themself to decide a lynch, they get a lot of heat if they didn’t have a good reason. Town has to play together; haring off to do your own thing without giving people a chance for input is impolite at best and damaging to town at worst. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/882 "2011-07-23T15:41:36Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I have more to explain, but will wait until toMorrow, if I’m still alive. Why are you waiting? If you happen to wake up dead Tomorrow, then you won’t have a chance to explain anything. If you have some useful information, why not share it now, while you know you have a chance to do so? ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/883 "2011-07-23T18:03:57Z")
Ah but this way, he can make a town vig question whether it’s better to vig him tonight or let him go another day. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/884 "2011-07-23T22:46:45Z")
I’m starting day 15 minutes early, due to not being around the computer in 15 minutes. :ahem: The first thing the De’endee villagers did in the morning was count how many of them had survived the Night. Honestly, they rather expected for one of them to die overnight(De’endee villagers can be kind of negative) Then again, the dice of fate had rolled against them a lot lately, don’t you think? A quick head count brought smiles to their faces. Same amount as when Night fell. Whew. “Well, looks like we all survived the Night. Ed, what do you think?” said one of the villagers. Silence. “Ed, I’m talking to you! What. Do. You. Think?” Silence. Then, they realized why. While it was true there were just as many heads as when they entered Nighttime, there was one less torso and set of legs. Yep, Specialed’s. **Specialed** is dead, but you only found his head. Yes that rhymes. Because you only found his head, you can’t make “head” or tails out of who he was or what his allegiance was to. It is now Day 3. This Day will run the same length as those before, but you can ask Astral if you need an exact time. I assume it will be Thursday at 6 PM Central, though. ---
**Author:** ![Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/db5fbb/32.png) [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hirka_T_Bawa)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/885 "2011-07-23T23:02:23Z")
Let me start off the day with an obvious vote … **Vote septimus** Since I don’t want to lock in a vote this early, I’m also going to **Vote shadowfacts** For the same reasons as yesterday, disavowing his votes. ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/886 "2011-07-23T23:15:29Z")
Survived I have. I was blocked by something. (but I am alive ) It would appear we don’t have a Town Vig (or they are shy) My time here is limited today (as far as the computer goes= the river is calling) When I have time to think I will try to figure out the possible implications ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/887 "2011-07-23T23:17:50Z")
Well there’s a shocker of a death. **vote: Septimus** ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2011, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/888 "2011-07-24T01:00:57Z")
**Vote Septimus** I’m not really sold on the Shadowfacts case but I haven’t paid as much attention to it. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2011, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/889 "2011-07-24T04:25:15Z")
Some of you can guess now why I didn’t write much last Night. I still don’t want to spell it out, but I do hope the Vig did try to kill me… I expect the Lynch vote to go against me harshly toDay, despite this demonstration, and will certainly reveal my role many hours before I’m Lynched. But whether you insist on Lynching me toDay or not, please let’s also keep hunting for real Scum, rather than letting the Day be a complete waste. And if you do decide to Lynch me despite everything please PLEASE make up your minds well before the 6AM (in my timezone) deadline. There are 120 hours in the Day, yet Ed and Ms. Phase piled on me at almost the last minute, and I’d be dead except that I’d stayed up all Night just to exchange two votes with SJ if necessary. The idea that I should have explained my last-minute vote seems silly. Who was there to change their votes? Certainly not any of the only three people voting for me, all of whom had locked in their votes. That’s right. The Lynch against me had only three people; none of them ever asked me for a role claim or made a case I could defend against. (AFAICT, my “argument against **Pizza** was overkill” is the only alleged scum-tell.) The decisive votes occurred in the final hour of a 120-hour Day. Yet I’m the one accused of “machination.” (If they had asked me for a role claim I’m not sure what I would have done; I’m still very reluctant to say much.) The events of last Evening demonstrate, I think, that the talk of a “pre-deadline” was sound. I stayed awake until 6 AM in my timezone because I expected SJ to vote me twice at the last moment and I wanted to then “return the favor.” Because of my timezone it’s inconvenient for me to be on-line at 6AM, but it can be inconvenient for others as well. SJ was evidently attending to real life; that would have been a disaster for Town if I had been Scum. I assume **ed** was killed by Scum (can someone please explain the janitor mechanic?) and I didn’t think he was Scum. We can debate whether his vote at 33 minutes to deadline was anti-Town or not, but it was certainly anti-Septimus. I’m not sure whether to suspect Ms. Phase either. For some reason fellow Townies always find me suspicious, so voting to Lynch me may be a Town-tell. 😃 The new charge against me is that _I_ voted at the very last minute rather than starting a discussion. :smack: Although I was watching DVD’s in another room, I had the computer on and connected and did see the last-hour votes several minutes before deadline. I did not vote at once; I hoped someone would rescue me. Or perhaps SJ would show up, put me out of my misery and I could go to bed. The suggestion that I start a last-moment discussion with three people whose votes were locked in strikes me as absurd. At the last moment, realizing I could save myself by Lynching SJ (known to be either Scum or Vanilla), I acted. I don’t see how this can be viewed as anti-Town. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2011, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/890 "2011-07-24T04:48:56Z")
We shouldn’t need to ask for a role claim. You should have provided one, probably once 2 people had locked in votes for you, definitely by 3. Role claim now, please. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2011, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/891 "2011-07-24T05:25:28Z")
\*\*Septimus \*\*does have a point regarding the end of the Day. When **Normal placed her second vote on him, Silver Jan** was still leading the voting 6-5. Fifteen minutes later when \*\*Ed \*\*changed his vote, no claim was going to make any difference, because all 6 votes on him were “final”. If he is a Town Power, then keeping silent and double-voting **Silver Jan** _might_ have been the correct play. Claiming was not going to move any votes off of him, and would have made him a target last Night. If he’s the Vig or a Mason, then that would have provided WIFOM for the Scum, which wouldn’t have been so bad, but if he’s the Doc it would have been very bad indeed. Of course, if he’s _not_ a Town Power, then he’s been a very naughty boy. In any case, I can’t see a reason to delay a roleclaim at this point. Either \*\*Septimus \*\*is going to be the presumptive lynchee so he’ll have to claim in an attempt to save himself, or we will lynch someone else and the Scum will kill him Tonight, since he’s pretty much claimed non-Vanilla, and it won’t matter anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2011, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/892 "2011-07-24T06:52:02Z")
I still had a free vote Yesterday and I was around. I’ll bet I wasn’t the only one. I don’t know why he thought if he posted at the EOD he’d only be talking to Ed, Pizza and Normal. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2011, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/893 "2011-07-24T07:10:44Z")
I’ve got a certain amount of sympathy for septimus’s point that he wasn’t about to argue his way out of locked in votes. It’s true as far as it goes. But he’d spent the whole day in close contention for the lynch - he should have made his position a lot clearer before the very last minute. I know I said power roles should try to argue their way out of votes first, but I didn’t even see him do that very much. It looks like he was always planning to wriggle out at the last minute. \*\* vote septimus\*\* ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2011, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/894 "2011-07-24T07:52:35Z")
**Septimus** - Assume for the moment we know each other are innocent. But you also assume that you will be dead shortly. Now, I ask you to give me **4 names**. These are the names of people you believe are most likely to be the Lords of Slaughter. Name these names, and give reasons if possible. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2011, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/895 "2011-07-24T09:10:34Z")
**STATUS** Normal Phase 112 Askthepizzaguy 79 Suburban Plankton 59 LightFoot 41 ShadowFacts 36 choie 29 Inner Stickler 26 gnarlycharlie 23 Stanislaus 23 MentalGuy 20 pedescribe 17 septimus 16 Weedy 15 TexCat 13 USCDiver 12 Red Skeezix 11 Hirka T’Bawa 10 Astral Rejection 45 is not playing Mahaloth 35 is not playing Romanic 14 is not playing Koldanar 10 is not playing Tom Scud 7 is not playing NAF1138 5 is not playing MHaye 4 is not playing peekercpa 2 is not playing Hoopy Frood 1 is not playing fubbleskag 1 is not playing Hal Briston 1 is not playing special ed 115 is dead Silver Jan 70 is dead Scathach 24 is dead KellyCriterion 18 is dead **ALIVE** 1. Normal Phase 2. Tom Scud (USCDiver) 3. Askthepizzaguy 4. Inner Stickler 5. Koldanar (Hirka T’Bawa) 6. Pedescribe 7. Mental Guy 8. LightFoot 9. TexCat 10. Red Skeezix 11. Romanic (Weedy) 12. Septimus 13. Choie 14. Gnarlycharlie 15. ShadowFacts 16. Stanislaus 17. Suburban Plankton **DEAD** 1. KellyCriterion- lynched, townie 2. SilverJan- lynched, townie 3. Scathach- murdered, townie 4. special ed- murdered (possible townie) **MINOR EVENTS BY PLAYER** (incomplete) **Hirka T’Bawa 10** Hirka has placed a vote for **ShadowFacts**. Post 820 Hirka has placed a second vote for **ShadowFacts** , post 826 Hirka has placed a vote for \*\*ShadowFacts \*\*and **Septimus** , post 885 **Red Skeezix 11** Red finds \*\*pedescribe \*\*scummy, post 186 Red votes **Silver Jan** , 233 Red doesn’t think Kelly is scummy, post 455 Red votes \*\*Silver Jan \*\*and **ShadowFacts** , post 601 Red \*\*unvotes \*\*ShadowFacts, post 790 _interesting post_ Red convinced \*\*Jan \*\*is scum, 839 Red convinced someone needs to vig **Septimus** , 841 **USCDiver 12** Diver votes \*\*Kelly \*\*and **Silver Jan** , post 432 Diver votes **Pizza** , post 628 **TexCat 13** Tex votes **Kelly** , 315 Tex questions \*\*Pizza \*\*for early vote lock, 529 Tex raises suspicion on **Septimus and choie, 600 Tex says special ed** is scum, 783 **Weedy 15** Weedy votes **Pizza** , 611 Weedy comments on Silver Jan, no firm stance, 644 Weedy \*\*unvotes \*\*Pizza, 740 Weedy votes **special ed** , 761 Weedy \*\*unvotes \*\*special ed, 773 Weedy votes **Silver Jan** , 791 Weedy \*\*defends \*\*Septimus, 871 **septimus 16** septimus talks about double-voting and pre-deadline, 188 septimus votes **ATPG** , 248 septimus\*\* invites lie detector\*\*, 370 septimus \*\*unsure \*\*about re-voting ATPG, 525 septimus approves post by **choie** septimus votes **ATPG** , 572 septimus **self-save 838, double votes Jan** septimus vows explanation 879 septimus partial explanation 889 **pedescribe 17** ped votes \*\*choie \*\*150 ped \*\*unvotes \*\*choie 184 ped discusses with choie, sept, and ATPG, 290 ped votes **Jan** , 369 ped **double votes ATPG** , 553 **MentalGuy 20** Guy votes \*\*Kelly \*\*217 Guy **unvotes, votes Koldanar** (Hirka T’Bawa) 319 Guy votes **Silver** , 429 Guy \*\*unvotes \*\*Silver, 431 Guy disagrees ATPG is scum, votes **Gnarly** , \*\*Koldanar \*\*542 Guy suspect of **Plankton** , 636 Guy thinks ATPG is town, continues prosecution of \*\*Gnarly \*\*685 Guy refers to Plankton’s posts while discussing with Normal, 698 **Stanislaus 23** Stan votes \*\*pedescribe \*\*159 Stan finds many examples of PIS which were NOT PIS 161 Stan thinks ped’s unvote is a null tell 194 Stan **unvotes, votes Kelly** 204 Stan q’s \*\*ATPG \*\*regarding Koldanar and ShadowFacts 284 Stan suggests \*\*Kelly \*\*still scummy, disagrees w/Pizza 337 Stan comments on Jan, Kelly, Diver, 443 Stan comments on Lightfoot, Pizza 515 Stan **big case against Special ed** , 531 Stan responds to ed, 548 Stan **unvotes special ed** , 591 Stan discusses Pizza at length, mentions Diver, **votes Mental Guy** 659 Stan discusses strategy, Lightfoot, 854 Stan continues, strongman comment 855 Stan votes \*\*septimus \*\*893 Find post: > [@](#): > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14048803&postcount=](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14048803&postcount=) insert post number at the end ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2011, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/896 "2011-07-24T11:04:20Z")
Two things, Septimus. 1. As you really might have been expected to know given all that analysis of the situation with Ed’s and my locked-in votes, Silver Jan could not have moved her own votes to save herself. She was already locked in herself, with two votes on Special Ed. So your reasoning up there, whether intentionally or not, is full of holes. 2. This is also false: "(AFAICT, my “argument against Pizza was overkill” is the only alleged scum-tell.) " TexCat’s observations in post 600 were what tipped me definitively into voting you; Ed voted on the same reasoning after I did. Her reasons were you placing an OMGUS vote almost in the same breath as you stated that you had done nothing but misfire with OMGUS votes in the past; and your snuggling of choie. And you did respond to the latter point. 3. Answer Pizza’s question about your top four suspects. 4. You’ve essentially soft-claimed doctor, and that you self-protected last night. I’m sure you can see why that is both a problematic claim (if town, you could out a vig; if scum, you will probably out the doc), and a problematic claimed action (if you are town, you should have considered what sort of role the SCUM would think would pull such a save and then act subsequently as you did (no claim during the night, betraying no fear of a vig), knowing you yourself are not one of them. Doctor is rather high on that list of possibilities; it and vig were the only two I could think of; you’re clearly not vanilla, if not scum. So scum would have to consider whether to take a pot-shot at YOU. Town doc won’t protect you; if you’re a vig, scum have a guaranteed power role kill and get to make 2-3 townies look bad in the process. If you’re a doc, then your lack of respect for the possibility of a vig could mean only that you were self-protecting – scum could have reasoned an attack on Lightfoot! If town, you took a heck of a risk. And for what? To save yourself.) But anyway, answer ATPG’s question. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2011, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/897 "2011-07-24T11:09:56Z")
Tentative observations about Ed’s death that I may or may not follow up on later; just getting thoughts out of my head. Of the three Septimus voters, Ed was the only one who had not claimed NPC-vanilla. Whether the scum were aiming to remove potentially-obvious townies or just create some more ammunition against Septimus, Ed was an obvious choice for night kill. That they in fact appear to have killed him may indicate that they don’t have too much to fear from examination of the people who voted Ed (of whom I currently remember only Silver Jan and stanislaus, but there may be more). Will think about it later. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2011, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/898 "2011-07-24T11:14:59Z")
To those lurking and active, I have a rather big accusation to make in a moment. Please stick around as I’m still assembling the case, if you can. ---
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2011, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/899 "2011-07-24T11:59:41Z")
I was waiting for a post from Septimus, but now that I’ve seen it, I’m not much the wiser. I have every sympathy for the End of Day issue, because time zone differences suck, but that’s the way it is. Besides, it seems like you were awake then, and deliberately chose to vote at the last minute. I would like to know what is going on with all your hinting at something. I hope you are just scum trying to confuse the issue, and not actually the Doc. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2011, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/900 "2011-07-24T12:10:53Z")
Here is my role PM: > [@](#): > > Your character sheet > Class: Paladin > Role: NPC/Bulletproof > Powers: You will survive the first night a kill attempt is made against you. If multiple kill attempts are made against you that night, you will survive them all. This ability will not protect against a level 5 assassin. > Alignment: Defenders of De’endee > Win Condition: You win when all threats to the Defenders of De’endee are vanquished and at least one member of the Defenders of De’endee is still alive. Maybe this is not a Power adequate to the way I played, but it does make me semi-confirmable Town. I’m not immune to Lynch; I wasn’t worried about Scum NK until the end-game because with all the talk about Lynching me it seemed very unlikely Scum would waste its NK on me. I really did miss the point about SJ; all the accusations consternated me to the point I play even worse than usual. Presenting my role PM actually gives me a sense of relief. Please go ahead and Lynch me if you don’t believe it. Assuming Vig did try to Kill me last Night, I’m just Vanilla now anyway. I will spend the rest of the Day studying past posts for possible scum-tells. I have been reading and re-reading, but with little success yet. A general comment is that many of the posts which made accusations seemed more scummy than the accusee. Naturally I focus on the people voting me, but I’ll admit I’ve not gotten any clear scum-tell from **Normal Phase** nor **ATPG**. Both of you now strike me as sincere Townies (though I’m sure you’re both clever enough to do that even if Scum). I will study and find (at least) two people to vote before End-of-day. Give me a while as my usually boring real-life is eventful right now. I apologize if I’ve misplayed, and will roll over meekly if Town chooses to Lynch me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052.md?page=44) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052.md?page=46)