# De'endee Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [July 6, 2011, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052 "2011-07-06T16:30:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 49
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/961 "2011-07-25T18:27:22Z")
gnarly I think you really mischaracterize Mental Guy there. You write off as “just game mechanics” several posts that were considerably more game-specific than you describe. This for instance: > [@](#): > > Each Mod makes their own rules, but the standard operating procedure here is to give them accounts on a separate board where they can talk. It is fairly common to only allow the scum to talk privately at Night (but allowing communication any time is not unusual either). > > If Kelly is scum and in contact with his partners, then I think they would have convinced him that the “hash-tag” post was not a good thing to do. If Kelly is scum and not in contact with his partners, then he may not have realized what a bad idea it was. So, I think his actions are slightly more likely (as scum) if scum are not allowed to communicate with each other during the Day, but I find it unlikely to be something done by scum either way. is not just: > [@](#): > > discusses more mechanics and possible communication between scum. It’s discussing Kelly’s actions specifically (and how they relate to what scum might do). So not only do I have the issue with you that “you just did what you’re voting someone else for” cases are so often wrong, but also that I think you are mischaracterizing Mental Guy’s actions regardless. He’s been about as focused on finding and evaluating suspects as you could want; to the extent he still fails to look outright townie for it, it’s because on the whole he looks to have been playing quite safe. (His most conspicuous actions being defense of a now-known townie and a solid but easy enough case on you.) When you defended yourself against him yesterDay you didn’t really defend; you counterattacked (on the grounds you’ve just now laid out with quotes and all). What made you decide to look at Mental Guy’s own posting record at that point; or were you already familiar with it and just hadn’t said anything? ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/962 "2011-07-25T20:10:37Z")
> [@gnarlycharlie](#): > > **Pizza** , your post on **Choie** was very detailed and very convincing. i’m rather confused as why you seem to be trying to convince yourself that she might be town. Well… Somewhere in that wall-o-words I mentioned I spent 9 hours in a car thinking about it. It’s either a brilliant case or a giant pile of cow dung, and there’s nothing in between. So, on the chance that I’m wrong (perish the thought) I thought WHAT IF I’M WRONG and I constructed a new scenario in my brain matter. By the way, the results of my name-mentioning ‘contest’ are finally finished, due to nappy time being over. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/963 "2011-07-25T20:14:49Z")
**NUMBER OF POSTS A PLAYER IS MENTIONED, BY PLAYER** [SPOILER]Normal Phase septimus- 1111111111111111111 Silver Jan- 1111111111111 pedescribe- 1111111 Kelly- 111111111111 stanislaus- 111 choie- 11 ATPG- 111111111111111111111 Diver- 111 Scathach- 11111 koldanar- 1111 special ed- 11111111 Inner Stickler- 11 MentalGuy- 11 Romanic- 11 ShadowFacts- 111111111 Lightfoot- 11111 gnarliecharlie- 111 Suburban Plankton- 1 TexCat- 1 Red Skeezix- 1 Hirka T’bawa- 1 Suburban Plankton Normal Phase- 111111 septimus- 111111111 Silver Jan- 1111111 pedescribe- 11 Kelly- 111111111 stanislaus- 1 choie- 111 ATPG- 1111111111 Diver- 0 Scathach- 1111 koldanar- 111111 special ed- 11111111 Inner Stickler- 1 MentalGuy- 1 Romanic- 11 ShadowFacts- 11 Lightfoot- 11 gnarliecharlie- 0 TexCat- 1 Red Skeezix- 1 Hirka T’bawa- 0 LightFoot Suburban Plankton- 0 Normal Phase-0 septimus- 0 Silver Jan- 1 pedescribe- 0 Kelly- 1 stanislaus- 0 choie- 0 ATPG- 1 Diver- 1 Scathach- 1 koldanar- 1 special ed- 11 Inner Stickler- 0 MentalGuy- 0 Romanic- 0 ShadowFacts- 0 gnarliecharlie- 1 TexCat- 0 Red Skeezix- 0 Hirka T’bawa- 0 ShadowFacts Suburban Plankton- 1 Normal Phase- 1111111 septimus- 111 Silver Jan- 111111 pedescribe- 11 Kelly- 111111111 stanislaus- 1 choie- 1 ATPG- 1111111111 Diver- 0 Scathach- 111 koldanar- 1 special ed- 1 Inner Stickler- 1 MentalGuy- Romanic- 11 Lightfoot- 1 gnarliecharlie- 0 TexCat- 0 Red Skeezix- 1 Hirka T’bawa- 0 choie Suburban Plankton- 111 Normal Phase- 1111111111 septimus- 111111 Silver Jan- 11111111111111 pedescribe- 1 Kelly- 1111111 stanislaus- 11 ShadowFacts- ATPG- 111111111111 Diver- 11 Scathach- koldanar- 1 special ed- 1111 Inner Stickler- MentalGuy- 1 Romanic- 111 Lightfoot- gnarliecharlie- TexCat- 11 Red Skeezix- Hirka T’bawa- Weedy- 1 Inner Stickler Suburban Plankton- 1 Normal Phase- 11 septimus- 1 Silver Jan- 111 pedescribe- Kelly- stanislaus- ShadowFacts-1 ATPG- 11 Diver- Scathach- koldanar- special ed- 1 choie- 1 MentalGuy- Romanic- Lightfoot- 1 gnarliecharlie- TexCat- Red Skeezix- 1 Hirka T’bawa- Weedy- gnarlycharlie Suburban Plankton- 1 Normal Phase- 1 septimus- 1111 Silver Jan- 11 pedescribe- Kelly- 1111 stanislaus- 1 ShadowFacts- ATPG- 111111 Diver- 11 Scathach- koldanar- 1 special ed- 11 choie- 1 MentalGuy- 11 Romanic- Lightfoot- Inner Stickler- TexCat- Red Skeezix- 1 Hirka T’bawa- Weedy- Stanislaus Suburban Plankton- 1 Normal Phase- 1111 septimus- 111 Silver Jan- 111 pedescribe- 11111 Kelly- 1111 gnarlycharlie- ShadowFacts- 1 ATPG- 1111 Diver- 11 Scathach- 1 koldanar- 111 special ed- 11 choie- MentalGuy- 1 Romanic- 1 Lightfoot- 111 Inner Stickler- TexCat- Red Skeezix- 1 Hirka T’bawa- Weedy- MentalGuy Suburban Plankton- 1111 Normal Phase- 1 septimus- 111 Silver Jan- 1111 pedescribe- 11 Kelly- 11111 gnarlycharlie- 11 ShadowFacts- 1 ATPG- 1111 Diver- Scathach- 11 koldanar- 1111 special ed- choie- 1 Stanislaus- 1 Romanic- Lightfoot- 1 Inner Stickler- TexCat- Red Skeezix- 1 Hirka T’bawa- Weedy- pedescribe Suburban Plankton- Normal Phase- septimus- Silver Jan- 1 MentalGuy- Kelly- gnarlycharlie- ShadowFacts- ATPG- 11 Diver- 1 Scathach- koldanar- special ed- 1 choie- 111 Stanislaus- Romanic- Lightfoot- 1 Inner Stickler- TexCat- Red Skeezix- Hirka T’bawa- Weedy- septimus Suburban Plankton- Normal Phase- 11 pedescribe Silver Jan- 1 MentalGuy- Kelly- 1 gnarlycharlie- ShadowFacts- ATPG- 111111 Diver- Scathach- koldanar- 1 special ed- 1 choie- 1 Stanislaus- Romanic- Lightfoot- 11 Inner Stickler- TexCat- Red Skeezix- 1 Hirka T’bawa- Weedy- Weedy Suburban Plankton- Normal Phase- 111 pedescribe- 1 Silver Jan- 1111111 MentalGuy- Kelly- 111 gnarlycharlie- ShadowFacts- ATPG- 1111 Diver- Scathach- 1 koldanar- special ed- 1111 choie- 111 Stanislaus- Romanic- Lightfoot- Inner Stickler- TexCat- Red Skeezix- Hirka T’bawa- septimus- 111 TexCat Suburban Plankton- Normal Phase- 1 pedescribe- Silver Jan- 11 MentalGuy- Kelly- 111 gnarlycharlie- ShadowFacts- ATPG- 11 Diver- Scathach- koldanar- special ed- 11 choie- 1 Stanislaus- Romanic- Lightfoot- 1 Inner Stickler- Weedy- Red Skeezix- Hirka T’bawa- septimus- 1 USCDiver Suburban Plankton- Normal Phase- pedescribe- 1 Silver Jan- 1 MentalGuy- Kelly- 1 gnarlycharlie- ShadowFacts- ATPG- 111 TexCat- Scathach- koldanar- special ed- choie- Stanislaus- Romanic- 1 Lightfoot- Inner Stickler- Weedy- Red Skeezix- Hirka T’bawa- septimus- Red Skeezix Suburban Plankton- Normal Phase- 11 pedescribe- 1 Silver Jan- 1111 MentalGuy- Kelly- 111 gnarlycharlie- ShadowFacts- 11 ATPG- 1 TexCat- Scathach- koldanar- 1 special ed- choie- 1 Stanislaus- Romanic- 1 Lightfoot- 1 Inner Stickler- Weedy- Diver- Hirka T’bawa- septimus- 1 Hirka T’Bawa Suburban Plankton- Normal Phase- 1 pedescribe- 1 Silver Jan- 1 MentalGuy- Kelly- gnarlycharlie- 1 ShadowFacts- 111 ATPG- 1 TexCat- Scathach- 1 koldanar- special ed- choie- Stanislaus- Romanic- Lightfoot- 1 Inner Stickler- Weedy- Diver- Red Skeezix- septimus- 11 Romanic Suburban Plankton- Normal Phase- 111 pedescribe- Silver Jan- MentalGuy- Kelly- 1111 gnarlycharlie- 1 ShadowFacts- ATPG- 111 TexCat- Scathach- koldanar- 11 special ed- choie- Stanislaus- Hirka- Lightfoot- Inner Stickler- Weedy- Diver- Red Skeezix- septimus- Koldanar Suburban Plankton- Normal Phase- pedescribe- 11 Silver Jan- MentalGuy- Kelly- 1 gnarlycharlie- ShadowFacts- 11 ATPG- 11 TexCat- Scathach- 1 koldanar- special ed- choie- Stanislaus- 1 Hirka- Lightfoot- Inner Stickler- Weedy- Diver- Red Skeezix- septimus- Askthepizzaguy Suburban Plankton- 111111 Normal Phase- 1111111 pedescribe- 111 Silver Jan- 11111111 MentalGuy- Kelly- 11111111111 gnarlycharlie- ShadowFacts- 11111 Romanic- 11 TexCat- Scathach- 11 koldanar- 1111111111 special ed- 1111 choie- 111111111 Stanislaus- 1 Hirka- Lightfoot- 1 Inner Stickler- Weedy- 1 Diver- 1 Red Skeezix- 1111 septimus- 111111111111111111111111[/SPOILER] **TOTAL POSTS MENTIONING EACH PERSON** **Askthepizzaguy** 1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111 \*\*septimus \*\* 1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111 \*\*Normal Phase \*\* 11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111 \*\*Hirka T’Bawa/Koldanar \*\* 11111111111111111111111111111111111111111 \*\*pedescribe \*\* 1111111111111111111111111111 \*\*choie \*\* 111111111111111111111111111 \*\*ShadowFacts \*\* 11111111111111111111111111 \*\*LightFoot \*\* 11111111111111111111 \*\*Suburban Plankton \*\* 111111111111111111 \*\*Weedy/Romanic \*\* 1111111111111111 \*\*Red Skeezix \*\* 111111111111 \*\*Stanislaus \*\* 11111111111 \*\*USCDiver \*\* 111111111111 \*\*gnarlycharlie \*\* 11111111 \*\*MentalGuy \*\* 1111111 \*\*Inner Stickler \*\* 1111 \*\*TexCat \*\* 1111 ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/964 "2011-07-25T20:34:35Z")
Also: **I CHECK THE CEILING FOR LORDS OF SLAUGHTER** ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/965 "2011-07-25T20:45:33Z")
I think they’re hiding under the rug, personally. Damn Lords of Slaughter, they’re worse than dustbunnies. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/966 "2011-07-25T21:10:42Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > Also: > > **I CHECK THE CEILING FOR LORDS OF SLAUGHTER** (roll, roll, roll) Huh. 2. Your spot check fails, and you do not notice the Lords of Slaughter hiding on the ceiling. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/967 "2011-07-25T21:16:31Z")
Wouldn’t it be awesome if I really had that power? If you make a sequel to this game, it would be pretty nifty if you had a detective who could “spot check” for scumbags once during the game. Suggested mechanism: Whoever they’re currently voting for is the target. For balance, the Lords of Slaughter could have an “instant death trap” they can use once during the game, but it also must be on the player they are voting for. /humble suggestion, creeps away ---
**Author:** ![MentalGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/439d5e/32.png) [@MentalGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MentalGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/968 "2011-07-25T21:42:53Z")
I want to apologize for disappearing for a while. Over the weekend it was just general busyness with the family, but I did get a couple of opportunities to read and get caught up. Starting today, though, I am at a conference and will really only be able to play in the evening (and just as I write that we have a fire alarm in the hotel). As the Day started, I was leaning towards the view that Pizza was scum that was doing a really good job playing us. This was based on his defense of Jan (I didn’t vote for Jan, but I had almost changed my mind about her and there is no way I could have went through all her posts like Pizza did and not found more scummy about her), and what I thought was a bussing of septimus (we have seen Pizza likes to play in an unorthodox manner and I have no reason to think he would not do that as scum). But based on what he has done toDay, I have to say, if he is scum, he is the hardest working scum I have ever seen. I find it very unlikely that septimus would not have been targeted by either scum or a vig. The fact that he does not know whether he was targeted makes me suspect he is not Town. **vote septimus** Honestly, I have only done a quick read of the posts made today. I don’t really buy into Pizza’s original case on choie, but some of the things others pointed out did make me feel suspicious. I need to go back and look at that in more depth, though, before I ready to vote for her. I do agree with Pizza that some of the scum are likely to be in the low volume posters (and yes, I realize that I am in that set of players). Gnarlycharlie has a perfectly valid reason for not being around much yesterDay, but his Day 1 play that I voted for is still there and I feel that he misrepresented my play in his review of me. **vote Gnarlycharlie** ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/969 "2011-07-25T21:51:14Z")
Are you sure about gnarlycharlie, Mental Guy? What is your opinion of the other low-talkers? I’m just curious. Believe it or not, I’m still puttering away, trying to make sense of the data and reviewing old posts. I’ll have something to say about the LoS keeping their heads down and not mentioning each other very much theory, hereafter known as the “Atpg has too much time on his hands” theory for short. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/970 "2011-07-25T21:55:37Z")
> [@MentalGuy](#): > > As the Day started, I was leaning towards the view that Pizza was scum that was doing a really good job playing us. This was based on his defense of Jan (I didn’t vote for Jan, but I had almost changed my mind about her and there is no way I could have went through all her posts like Pizza did and not found more scummy about her), and what I thought was a bussing of septimus (we have seen Pizza likes to play in an unorthodox manner and I have no reason to think he would not do that as scum). But based on what he has done toDay, I have to say, if he is scum, he is the hardest working scum I have ever seen. What has he done Today that says “Town”? He’s certainly spent a great deal of time doing statistical research, but to what end? He has provided us with scads of data, but how is that “Townie”? It’s just _data_; there is no relative ‘good-or-badness’ to it. > [@](#): > > I find it very unlikely that septimus would not have been targeted by either scum or a vig. The fact that he does not know whether he was targeted makes me suspect he is not Town. There is no evidence at this point that we have a Vig. We’ve had three deaths in three Nights. As for the Scum not targeting him; given the reaction overNight to his last minute vote I can see the Scum figuring that Town would do their dirty work for them. The fact that he does not know if he was targeted is a bit troublesome, but if in fact he was _not_ targeted, that would explain his ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/971 "2011-07-25T22:00:21Z")
I’m going to eat you for breakfast, ser Plankton. Nom nom nom nom. Better kill me before I nail all your mafia buddies. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/972 "2011-07-25T22:00:50Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > I’m just curious. Believe it or not, I’m still puttering away, trying to make sense of the data and reviewing old posts. I’ll have something to say about the LoS keeping their heads down and not mentioning each other very much theory, hereafter known as the “Atpg has too much time on his hands” theory for short. I was beginning to wonder if you were going to express any opinion on the matter, or if you had succumbed to exhaustion after all that. I was a bit worried after you started hallucinating about people walking on your ceiling 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/973 "2011-07-25T22:04:48Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > I was beginning to wonder if you were going to express any opinion on the matter, or if you had succumbed to exhaustion after all that. I was a bit worried after you started hallucinating about people walking on your ceiling 🙂 I am pretty pooped. I am very, very thankful I took notes during that process, because there are some shiny gems in there which caught my eye, and I’d hate to have to go digging again. Unfortunately, by the mere fact that I’m going to be examining those gems, that’s going to lead to taking a closer look at each person, which means snapping up all their posts and putting them in a line for a quick analysis. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/974 "2011-07-25T22:07:18Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > I’m going to eat you for breakfast, ser Plankton. Nom nom nom nom. > > Better kill me before I nail all your mafia buddies. 😃 See, the problem is that I can never tell when you’re joking, and when you’re not. I guess that means you’re doing it right 🙂 But my issue here was more with \*\*MentalGuy \*\*than with you. If he was leaning Scum on you at the beginning of the Day, I fail to see how the posts you have made Today should have changed that opinion. There’s nothing necessarily \*wrong \*with what you have posted, but I don’t see anything that’s objectively \*right \*about it either. All of the ‘data dump’ posts are neutral when it comes to Scum hunting. I’ve seen plenty of Town players collecting and sharing data for the benefit of the Town, but I’ve seen plenty of Scum players doing exactly the same thing. So when \*\*MentalGuy \*\*says that your hard work makes you seem less likely to be Scum, I can’t agree. ---
**Author:** ![MentalGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/439d5e/32.png) [@MentalGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MentalGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/975 "2011-07-25T22:16:56Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > What has he done Today that says “Town”? He’s certainly spent a great deal of time doing statistical research, but to what end? He has provided us with scads of data, but how is that “Townie”? It’s just _data_; there is no relative ‘good-or-badness’ to it. Oh, I am not saying he is definitely Town, and never having seen him before, it could be that he enjoys going to extravagant lengths to win as scum. But in general, I would not expect scum to go to the lengths that he has toDay (including his analysis of choie that gives War and Peace competition in length). > [@](#): > > There is no evidence at this point that we have a Vig. We’ve had three deaths in three Nights. As for the Scum not targeting him; given the reaction overNight to his last minute vote I can see the Scum figuring that Town would do their dirty work for them. > > The fact that he does not know if he was targeted is a bit troublesome, but if in fact he was _not_ targeted, that would explain his ignorance. You are correct but I did not think that likely at the time I made my post. After thinking about it some more, I may need to reconsider. I am not going to remove my vote yet, but I will consider the case some more. ---
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/976 "2011-07-25T22:17:30Z")
Normal Phase: Why did I say that about not vigging Septimus? (sorry, can’t be bothered to nest the quotes). I was thinking that it was a way to confirm him. But it’s not, because it won’t give alignment. Furthermore, if he is town, it takes away the useful thing about him (in game terms), which is that he is 2 NKs worth. So it was a dumb idea. The vig could still kill him to want him dead (except they have to do it twice), but I think it is not useful to vig him to confirm him. Lynching him is the best (only?) way, but I am reluctant to lynch a possible power role. I went back and looked at vanilla role claim chapter, and I’m not sure choie ever really understood what Normal Phase was trying to say. So her vote on her could still be consistent with Choie as Town. Her interactions with Jan are still bothering me, so I’m going to leave my vote for now. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/977 "2011-07-25T22:21:17Z")
I’ve wondered whether statistical analyses could help Scum hunt. (Perhaps it’s even as simple as some posters using adverbs more when Town, but switching to adjectives when Scum! :D) So I was intrigued by ATPG’s suggestion of statistical analysis. I started with ATPG’s data (didn’t check it except to eliminate three apparent duplicates: ShadowFacts is shown mentioning pedescribe twice in one message, and Romanic twice in another message; specialed is shown mentioning himself.) ATPG posted the data summaries before me, but my format may be more convenient. Here is the raw data. Normal made 123 mentions altogether, 21 of ATPG, 1 of Suburban, 2 of choie and so on. (I guess ATPG stopped his note-taking before Normal started mentioning choie a lot.) Players are listed in decreasing order of their activity. ```auto Normal 123 21 1 2 8 913 3 2 3 0 1 118 2 2 1 4 7 511 5 4 ATPG 99 7 6 9 4 5 8 1 0 0 1 0 424 0 2 010 3 111 2 1 Suburban 75 610 3 8 2 7 1 1 0 0 1 1 9 1 2 0 6 2 2 9 4 0 choie 67 1011 3 4 014 2 1 0 1 2 0 6 0 2 0 1 1 0 7 0 2 specialed 63 910 3 1 119 1 0 0 0 0 0 4 0 0 0 0 0 213 0 0 ShadowFacts 47 610 1 1 1 6 1 0 0 0 0 1 3 1 1 0 1 1 1 9 3 0 SilverJan 47 6 3 2 6 7 1 0 0 1 2 0 3 1 1 5 0 1 3 0 4 1 0 Stanislaus 39 4 4 1 0 2 1 3 1 0 0 0 1 3 0 1 0 3 5 3 4 1 2 MentalGuy 36 1 4 4 1 0 1 4 1 2 0 0 1 3 0 0 0 4 2 1 5 2 0 gnarly 28 1 6 1 1 2 0 2 1 2 0 0 1 4 0 0 0 1 0 0 4 0 2 Weedy 28 3 4 0 2 4 0 7 0 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 0 1 0 3 1 0 Texcat 27 2 4 0 2 4 0 4 1 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 1 4 2 1 RedSkeezix 18 2 1 0 1 0 2 4 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 0 1 1 1 3 0 0 septimus 16 2 6 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 0 2 1 0 0 InnerStickler 14 2 2 1 1 1 1 3 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 Romanic 13 3 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 5 0 0 Hirka 12 1 1 0 0 0 3 1 0 0 1 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 Koldanar 10 0 2 0 0 0 2 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 2 1 0 pedescribe 9 0 2 0 3 1 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 1 Lightfoot 9 0 1 0 0 2 0 1 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 1 1 Kelly 8 1 0 0 3 2 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 Scathach 7 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 4 0 Diver 7 0 3 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 0 ``` Following is the same table with simplifications: Mention counts of 10 or more are called “9” to keep the table clean. Koldanar’s activity is merged with Hirka’s Romanic’s activity is merged with Weedy’s. ```auto N A S C S S S S M G W T R S I H P L K S D o T u h p h i t e n e e e e n i e i e c i Normal 96 9 1 2 8 9 9 3 2 3 2 1 1 9 2 5 7 5 9 5 4 ATPG 81 7 6 9 4 5 8 1 0 0 3 0 4 9 0 9 3 1 9 2 1 Suburban 74 6 9 3 8 2 7 1 1 0 2 1 1 9 1 6 2 2 9 4 0 choie 59 9 9 3 4 0 9 2 1 0 3 2 0 6 0 1 1 0 7 0 2 specialed 48 9 9 3 1 1 9 1 0 0 0 0 0 4 0 0 0 2 9 0 0 ShadowFacts 46 6 9 1 1 1 6 1 0 0 1 0 1 3 1 1 1 1 9 3 0 SilverJan 47 6 3 2 6 7 1 0 0 1 7 0 3 1 1 1 3 0 4 1 0 Stanislaus 39 4 4 1 0 2 1 3 1 0 1 0 1 3 0 3 5 3 4 1 2 MentalGuy 36 1 4 4 1 0 1 4 1 2 0 0 1 3 0 4 2 1 5 2 0 gnarly 28 1 6 1 1 2 0 2 1 2 0 0 1 4 0 1 0 0 4 0 2 Weedy 41 6 6 0 2 4 0 7 0 0 1 0 0 3 0 2 1 0 8 1 0 Texcat 27 2 4 0 2 4 0 4 1 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 1 4 2 1 RedSkeezix 18 2 1 0 1 0 2 4 0 0 0 1 0 1 0 1 1 1 3 0 0 septimus 16 2 6 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 0 2 1 0 0 InnerStickler 14 2 2 1 1 1 1 3 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 0 0 Hirka 22 1 3 0 0 0 5 1 1 0 1 0 0 0 2 0 3 1 2 2 0 pedescribe 9 0 2 0 3 1 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 1 Lightfoot 9 0 1 0 0 2 0 1 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 1 1 Kelly 8 1 0 0 3 2 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 Scathach 7 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 4 0 Diver 7 0 3 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 0 N A S C S S S S M G W T R S I H P L K S D o T u h p h i t e n e e e e n i e i e c i ``` I just present the data, without trying to interpret it, but here is a start at something ATPG was seeking. For each player I list the other players who neither mentioned nor were mentioned by that player. ```auto Mutual Silence Pairs: Suburban: Diver choie: Lightfoot Scathach specialed: MentalGuy RedSkeezix Hirka Scathach Diver ShadowFacts: gnarly Texcat Diver Stanislaus: InnerStickler MentalGuy: specialed Weedy Texcat InnerStickler Diver gnarly: ShadowFacts Texcat InnerStickler pedescribe Scathach Weedy: MentalGuy Texcat InnerStickler Lightfoot Texcat: ShadowFacts MentalGuy gnarly Weedy RedSkeezix InnerStickler Hirka pedescribe RedSkeezix: specialed Texcat Scathach Diver septimus: pedescribe Scathach Diver InnerStickler: Stanislaus MentalGuy gnarly Weedy Texcat Hirka pedescribe Kelly Scathach Diver Hirka: specialed Texcat InnerStickler Diver pedescribe: gnarly Texcat septimus InnerStickler Scathach Lightfoot: choie Weedy Kelly: InnerStickler Scathach: choie specialed gnarly RedSkeezix septimus InnerStickler pedescribe Diver Diver: Suburban specialed ShadowFacts MentalGuy RedSkeezix septimus InnerStickler Hirka Scathach ``` My own scum-hunting? 1. I certainly agree with ATPG that Scum may be hiding among the quiet; I have one candidate in mind particularly there. 2. I’ve been re-reading and re-reading the discussion between Normal Phase and ShadowFacts, going around and around, changing my mind. The only firm conclusion I will offer now is that I strongly doubt that both are Scum! 3. Similarly, both ATPG and, again, Normal are high on my suspect list, in part because they seek to dominate the Town agenda. But again I strongly doubt that both are Scum. ETA: Yes I know these brief comments are not cases. Soon I’ll post my own (small!) Wall of Words! ---
**Author:** ![MentalGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/439d5e/32.png) [@MentalGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MentalGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/978 "2011-07-25T22:24:32Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > Are you sure about gnarlycharlie, Mental Guy? > > What is your opinion of the other low-talkers? > > I’m just curious. Believe it or not, I’m still puttering away, trying to make sense of the data and reviewing old posts. I’ll have something to say about the LoS keeping their heads down and not mentioning each other very much theory, hereafter known as the “Atpg has too much time on his hands” theory for short. I am never really sure unless we have had a result from one of our power roles, but when I first voted him I had done a review of all the posters that were in our range in post count and he was the one that I found most likely to be scum. At this point, I don’t really remember who said what out of the rest of that group (or who voted who). I would need to go back and look at them again before I could really give an opinion. I will try to do that later. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/979 "2011-07-25T22:25:43Z")
@ **Plankton** - Of course not. As a Lord, you’re uncomfortable with the direction this is all heading. Having townies like MentalGuy declare others like Pizzaguy innocent and agree that the scums are likely lower on the list, does not bode well for you and your less outspoken/mentioned brethren. You’d be interested to toss some doubt on that fire before it burns the whole forest down that they’re hiding in. Am I joking? Even I’m not sure, at the moment. @ **MentalGuy** - I think your vote would be placed better somewhere besides septimus. He’s already got some votes on him, maybe spread that pressure around. Like on Plankton. 😃 @ **septimus** , through preview post Good god man, thank you. Now, consider silence and “single mention” to be within the same realm of thinking, and I think we’d be on to something. ---
**Author:** ![MentalGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/439d5e/32.png) [@MentalGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MentalGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/980 "2011-07-25T22:37:28Z")
**Could we get a vote count please?** [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052.md?page=48) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052.md?page=50)