# De'endee Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [July 6, 2011, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052 "2011-07-06T16:30:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 58
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/1141 "2011-07-28T19:51:23Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Septimus said that you are delaying his lynch because his flip will discredit you. That would be the reason you are trying to get ShadowFacts dead instead of him. > > I challenge this. > Doesn’t make logical sense. What does that imply? ShadowFacts is either \*\*guilty \*\*or **innocent**. > > So I’m trying to avoid discrediting myself by lynching the \_\_\_\_\_\_\_ ShadowFacts. > > Fill in the blank. > > So I’m trying to avoid discrediting myself by lynching the **innocent** ShadowFacts. > > Sure, because I haven’t discredited myself already with my antics, and lynching the innocent \*\*ShadowFacts \*\*won’t discredit me somehow, at least as much as lynching the innocent **septimus**. Makes zero sense. > So I’m trying to avoid discrediting myself by lynching the **guilty** ShadowFacts. > 😕 > So, kill ShadowFacts! What a silly idea, right? And of course, it’s scummy that I’m doing this, so obviously that means I’ve not only helped _lynch my Lord of Slaughter buddy_, _but made myself look like a jackass IN THE PROCESS._ > > Brilliant mafia play on my part. I’d never be able to show my face here again. You’re focusing on the wrong part of **Septimus** ’ statement. **Septimus** ’ death will discredit you (according to him). therefore you want to delay his lynch. Therefore you are trying to get \*\*ShadowFacts \*\*(i.e. not **Septimus** ) lynched instead. QED. If \*\*ShadowFacts \*\*happens to be Town…oh well, you were wrong. It happens to Townies all the time. If \*\*ShadowFacts \*\*is Scum, then you gain Town cred. > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > I don’t actually have an argument with your statement here, though I do still wonder how you went from spending 2 Days trying to lynch Septimus to now considering him confirmed Town. > > Because I have little to lose. I’m an NPC townie who is already being looked at strangely. Someone needs to take risks, accuse unlikely people, and remind folks that hey, LoS are gonna claim power roles. Right now I can do that sort of thing because I don’t have much to lose. > > You know the Dark Knight movie- How batman takes the heat for things because he can, but other purely white characters cannot? > > I’m far from batman, but I can play my role here and be cannon fodder who asks pertinent questions. That much I can do. > > And btw, septimus is still very likely to be lynched today, in spite of my efforts. I really don’t see a huge movement otherwise. First of all, that doesn’t answer my question of why you did a 180 on **Septimus**. But I remember now: “you don’t know” Second, what efforts have you made lately to save **Septimus**? You’ve argued that we should lynch \*\*ShadowFacts \*\*instead, but you haven’t moved your second vote to him…if you are so certain he is Scum, why don’t you make that effort? I know, that would only create a tie, and \*\*Septimus \*\*would still be on the block, but at that point one vote from any of the numerous people with one available would decide things. By my count there are still 10 votes available to be cast Today. Perhaps someone would be more likely to follow your lead and place one of them on \*\*ShadowFacts \*\*if you were to actually lead them. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/1142 "2011-07-28T19:51:58Z")
It’s not about that, Lightfoot; it’s about my reluctance to let those four votes stay all in ShadowFacts hands. If he doesn’t empower you, he still has them for two more days running. I don’t see him getting lynched while he still has those votes in hand, minus an investigation, and I’m still seeing him as scum. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/1143 "2011-07-28T19:52:43Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > “We know nothing more right now than we did after Kelly’s reveal.” This is regarding scathach’s no-reveal death. Only, assuming his power or something like it is legit, then ShadowFacts DID know something more than he had the night previously: he knew that scathach was not a town power role. He could assume not only town, but also town vanilla. I read fakery in this statement, that it was putting up a front of not knowing something he really did know. And I was correct about that. (Yes I see the “investigators” caveat, but that should have no impact on my perception or Shadow’s perception OF my perception.) > > Why am I your sole solidly-stated suspicion in days when you KNOW I was seeing something real here upon first voting you, Shadow? (And you’ve known it all along.) If you are town, please describe what you’ve been thinking about this situation since the beginning of day two. I’m going to go find out what you actually said to me at the time. I really hate to be fair here, but, if he had said that he knew something more, people might ask him about it and it could lead to a claim based on saying something odd. That’s in size one because it makes me feel dirty. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/1144 "2011-07-28T19:53:19Z")
No it wouldn’t, SP (ATPG moving his second vote). Shadow has four votes and has not committed any of them anywhere thus far. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/1145 "2011-07-28T19:55:35Z")
This is all I can find for response; it doesn’t shed any light on anything. Obviously if he’s for real he’s not going to admit to the fakery I saw. I still question why he felt the need to say such a thing in the first place, and I question his sole focus on me knowing the root of my suspicion was solid. > [@ShadowFacts](#): > > I agree with you that the strong assumption is that \*\*scathach \*\*was a mafia kill and was thus a townie. I am proceeding on that assumption for now. That said, I don’t \*know \*any of that, so I believe my original statement was true, even if it was just a toss off comment. I hardly think it merits a vote, but YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/1146 "2011-07-28T19:57:03Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > “We know nothing more right now than we did after Kelly’s reveal.” This is regarding scathach’s no-reveal death. Only, assuming his power or something like it is legit, then ShadowFacts DID know something more than he had the night previously: he knew that scathach was not a town power role. He could assume not only town, but also town vanilla. I did make that assumption, in fact, and I asked **Astral** about it. I asked: “Based on my role description and the fact that I have not received a PM from you, can I assume that Scathach was NOT a town power role?” The response: “No comment.” I know _you_ won’t believe me, but that’s exactly what happened, word for word. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/1147 "2011-07-28T19:57:40Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > I really hate to be fair here, but, if he had said that he knew something more, people might ask him about it and it could lead to a claim based on saying something odd. > > That’s in size one because it makes me feel dirty. I know. I’m questioning his focus on me and lack of focus on anyone else in light of knowing my perception was legitimate; and to a lesser extent why he even left himself open to being caught in a borderline lie like that in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/1148 "2011-07-28T19:59:03Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > I don’t think ShadowFacts is getting lynched today if he doesn’t want to. It’s only a question of who he chooses to try to lynch instead. > > Whatever else, he must empower Lightfoot today and not himself. Did \*\*LightFoot \*\*suddenly get confirmed Town when I wasn’t looking? I’m not accusing her of being Scum, but I’m wondering why everyone seems to be assuming we can trust her votes enough to double them? If she’s lying, then we’re shooting ourselves in the foot. And if she’s telling the truth, she still doesn’t know who the Scum are, so we still could be shooting ourselves in the foot. I fail to see why the power should be used at all Today. It won’t prove anything about **ShadowFacts** ’ alignment in any case. It will tell us absolutely nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/1149 "2011-07-28T19:59:29Z")
> [@ShadowFacts](#): > > I did make that assumption, in fact, and I asked **Astral** about it. I asked: “Based on my role description and the fact that I have not received a PM from you, can I assume that Scathach was NOT a town power role?” > > The response: “No comment.” > > I know _you_ won’t believe me, but that’s exactly what happened, word for word. All right. Will you use your extra votes on Lightfoot today, or will you keep them to save yourself/dissuade lynch attempts for as long as you have them? ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/1150 "2011-07-28T20:03:15Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > It’s not about that, Lightfoot; it’s about my reluctance to let those four votes stay all in ShadowFacts hands. If he doesn’t empower you, he still has them for two more days running. I don’t see him getting lynched while he still has those votes in hand, minus an investigation, and I’m still seeing him as scum. If that’s the reason, then he should use the ability on a player whose vote in on someone not in lynch contention. For example, **MentalGuy** , who currently has the one and only vote on **gnarlycharlie**. That was the ‘extra’ vote does not figure in to Today’s lynch. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/1151 "2011-07-28T20:04:01Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > Did \*\*LightFoot \*\*suddenly get confirmed Town when I wasn’t looking? > > I’m not accusing her of being Scum, but I’m wondering why everyone seems to be assuming we can trust her votes enough to double them? > > If she’s lying, then we’re shooting ourselves in the foot. And if she’s telling the truth, she still doesn’t know who the Scum are, so we still could be shooting ourselves in the foot. > > I fail to see why the power should be used at all Today. It won’t prove anything about **ShadowFacts** ’ alignment in any case. It will tell us absolutely nothing. He’s essentially unlynchable as long as he retains those votes, and he has amassed enough suspicion to get himself to the edge of lynch today (if that were not true). That’s too much power in one person’s hands who is not remotely certain of being town. I’d rather have him power himself up and single-handedly lynch me than keep those votes, right at this moment. As for LightFoot, I think it’s insane to even worry about her alignment right now. She claimed cop on day two and by the end of day three has not been counter-claimed. Scathach wasn’t a cop whose identity she stole unless scum can also bleach corpses of powers: that’s borderline bastard around here and I don’t rate it likely at all. Her judgment is whatever it is, but her intentions should by all rights be solid. Why do you not see it this way? ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/1152 "2011-07-28T20:04:05Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > You’re focusing on the wrong part of **Septimus** ’ statement. > > **Septimus** ’ death will discredit you (according to him). therefore you want to delay his lynch. Therefore you are trying to get \*\*ShadowFacts \*\*(i.e. not **Septimus** ) lynched instead. QED. > > If \*\*ShadowFacts \*\*happens to be Town…oh well, you were wrong. It happens to Townies all the time. > If \*\*ShadowFacts \*\*is Scum, then you gain Town cred. If ShadowFacts is town, I’ve accomplished the following: 1. spared suspect septimus, against the will of some 7 or 8 other players. 2. lynched claimed power role ShadowFacts 3. pretty much ATPG’s fingerprints all over both of those Without even knowing the results, my actions are already raising questions which serve to discredit me. And, I’m suggesting that even if ShadowFacts is scum, you think I’m going to be off the hook? If I were you I’d claim that was PIS I’d be displaying. I’m saying that if ShadowFacts is town, I’ve done worse discrediting of myself than if I just shut up and allowed possibly townie bulletproof role which the scums want dead, to DIE. I’d still be discredited but hey, as a Lord, I’d have accomplished something in exchange. Please give me at least as much credit as to do something not-stupid as a mafioso. If ShadowFacts is scum, I gain town cred. But for how long? You really think the Lords of Slaughter going to leave me alive all game after my displayed behavior and almost single-handed single-minded crusade against ShadowFacts the Lord of Slaughter? I’m dead meat if I’m right, and I openly invite being roleblocked or investigated in either case. I will have accomplished shooting my team in the foot, making myself suspicious, and neutering myself for the rest of the game if me and Shadow are both scum. Remember, in this scenario, Shadow is scum. So, call my ill-fated bluff if you think that’s what this is. > [@](#): > > First of all, that doesn’t answer my question of why you did a 180 on **Septimus**. But I remember now: “you don’t know” This is very true, I don’t know. My own argument suggests that septimus would therefore be just as likely a good lynch as ShadowFacts since he also claimed something that’s a perfect cover role for scum. I’m taking a risk and playing devil’s advocate on the 50/50 odds septimus is townie. > [@](#): > > Second, what efforts have you made lately to save **Septimus**? You’ve argued that we should lynch \*\*ShadowFacts \*\*instead, but you haven’t moved your second vote to him…if you are so certain he is Scum, why don’t you make that effort? I’m not certain, and I’m still questioning SF and pressuring and responding and making up my mind. And I’m also keeping an eye on the participation levels; there’s really no point in locking in my vote if there could be a decision to swing the lynch onto a third candidate. I intend to be here and able to vote in such a circumstance. While I’m busy arguing for ShadowFacts’ death, if I feel there are significant townie efforts to spare him, I’ll contribute to that and be a team player, if a big pain in the neck team player. > [@](#): > > Perhaps someone would be more likely to follow your lead and place one of them on \*\*ShadowFacts \*\*if you were to actually lead them. It’s possible. I am willing to take that risk; my lack of movement is because I’m not intending to overturn the will of the town by force, but persuade folks to see my point of view. Should I fail, I’m intending to enforce the will of the town with my vote. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/1153 "2011-07-28T20:04:28Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > No it wouldn’t, SP (ATPG moving his second vote). Shadow has four votes and has not committed any of them anywhere thus far. My point was that he should “put his money where his mouth is”. Right now, he’s calling on the rest of the Town to do his work for him. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/1154 "2011-07-28T20:06:07Z")
Scathach was confirmed to be NPC townie powerless role, wasn’t that the case? Someone help me find it. I could very well be misinformed but I remember that differently. I thought that special ed was the one we hadn’t confirmed yet. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/1155 "2011-07-28T20:06:22Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > If that’s the reason, then he should use the ability on a player whose vote in on someone not in lynch contention. For example, **MentalGuy** , who currently has the one and only vote on **gnarlycharlie**. That was the ‘extra’ vote does not figure in to Today’s lynch. I would agree to that if it’s someone who’s virtually certain not to return and want to change his vote later. I don’t know if MentalGuy fits that bill. (Pedescribe or other non-voters wouldnt’ prove he has the power at all, btw (or has used it), as far as I can tell, though I think it’s quite likely that he does.) ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/1156 "2011-07-28T20:07:53Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > Scathach was confirmed to be NPC townie powerless role, wasn’t that the case? > > Someone help me find it. I could very well be misinformed but I remember that differently. I thought that special ed was the one we hadn’t confirmed yet. He was; I’m not stating it clearly. By bleach of powers I mean make it appear that a power townsperson was actually vanilla, upon death reveal. I don’t think that sort of moderator-aided deception woudl fly around here. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/1157 "2011-07-28T20:10:03Z")
In case ShadowFacts actually takes me up on trying to get me lynched! – Stanislaus: I didn’t see much in your original case, Pizza, but similarly am not convinced by your 100% retraction. He’s a good player, and I think capable of faking townieness quite well. Jury is still out. Suburban Plankton: Too up and down on him to comment, really. But if TexCat is scum, I think Suburban the likeliest of her voters thus far to have been bussing. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/1158 "2011-07-28T20:11:30Z")
[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14061027&postcount=940](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14061027&postcount=940) Scathach’s remains were found and she was an NPC townie! Scathach’s remains have been found and identified. She was an NPC townsperson and one of the Defenders of De’endee. I remember this, there was a delay. I doubt the NPC townie had a power role. Now what was this in reference to… ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/1159 "2011-07-28T20:13:19Z")
LOL. Lightfoot and whether there’s any reason to believe she might be lying. I submit that there’s not. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/1160 "2011-07-28T20:14:59Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > He was; I’m not stating it clearly. By bleach of powers I mean make it appear that a power townsperson was actually vanilla, upon death reveal. I don’t think that sort of moderator-aided deception woudl fly around here. Oh. Well hopefully not. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052.md?page=57) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052.md?page=59)