# De'endee Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [July 6, 2011, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052 "2011-07-06T16:30:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 64
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2011, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/1261 "2011-07-31T02:00:41Z")
Well, I can confirm that I was blocked last night. [QUOTE=Astral Rejection] Class: Warblade Alignment: Defenders of De’endee Role: Assassin Win Condition: You win when all threats to the Defenders of De’endee have been vanquished. Powers: You may kill one player each night. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Astral Rejection] You return home this morning tired from unsuccessfully pursuing your target all night. At every turn he was able to evade your attempts at his life. (Your target was protected) [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Astral Rejection] You awake, refreshed and alert, still dressed for your assassination. You glance down at your boots, frowning… you don’t remember being too tired to take them off. In fact, you don’t remember much of anything. You sit up cautiously, trying to piece together what had happened. Your knives, tucked away in their sheathes, are perfectly clean, without a hint of blood on them. (You were blocked) [/QUOTE] So based on the lack of kill, either the scum decided not to attack last night or they targetted a protected player. I targetted no one night 1 (I missed the deadline, otherwise silver jan would have been dead earlier) septimus night 2 and shadowfacts night 3. I have to work in the morning so off to bed. ---
**Author:** ![Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/db5fbb/32.png) [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hirka_T_Bawa)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2011, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/1262 "2011-07-31T02:04:22Z")
**Red Skeezix** , can you post the PM of your failed attempt on **septimus** on night 2? (If you’re telling the truth that is). ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2011, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/1263 "2011-07-31T02:36:04Z")
Well played, **Red** , but I’m not buying it for a second. Either you’re scum or you’re the Unluckiest Assassin in the World 😃 I’m going with the former. ---
**Author:** ![Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/db5fbb/32.png) [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hirka_T_Bawa)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2011, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/1264 "2011-07-31T02:50:42Z")
Thinking more about **Red Skeezix** ’s claim, if he is who he says he is, and did the actions he said he did, then why did he post this? > [@Red\_Skeezix](#): > > I need to review the day more closely, see if anything jumps out. > > But at this point: > > **vote septimus** > Your claim seems tailored to your actions of late yesterday. It’s pretty convenient. Also, it seems trivial for a scum player to fake, if they don’t think there is a vig in the game (there’s no guarantee that there is). Also the power is a strange one. I feel like every so often someone claims to be either a Town aligned Bomb or a Bulletproof townie. It’s just that in ~ 40 games played, I’ve seen 1 bomb and 2 bulletproof town players. It’s just not that common. So to put it simply, I find the vote manipulation to be a very scummy action, and the claim hard to swallow. You refused to believe **septimus** ’s claim that he was bulletproof, yet you say you targeted him. I would think that when you failed on your killing him, especially after you posted saying (post 841) > [@](#): > > Somebody should vig this guy. you of all people would have believed his claim. Yet, you voted for him, and kept your vote on him all day. Your actions do not back the claim you made. I am getting more convinced that you are most likely scum, and **ShadowFacts** is telling the truth. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2011, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/1265 "2011-07-31T05:14:22Z")
Well, first of all- Yep, I am skeptical. There are a number of ways this can be liar, liar, pants on fire. Just off of the top of my head: ShadowFacts and RedSkeezix are both Lords of Slaughter. After my pressure on him yesterday, ShadowFacts and Red devised a plan to keep Shadow alive, and make sure that he keeps his voting power boost to himself. Bussing Red Skeezix makes ShadowFacts look good, and he self-boosts and we don’t lynch him until it’s too late to bother trying. Look at the time of the daybreak and the time Shadow posts his “it was me, lol” message. Seems he was anticipating this result (in other words, knew the result ahead of time) and it was not a surprise to him. I’ll also note that mister septimus claimed he could only be killed by a level 5 assassin. Well, here’s the assassin, claiming for everyone. That means that septimus was aware there is an assassin in the game. Either that means he’s telling the truth, and he is a bulletproof that can only be taken down by a level 5 assassin, or that means he and Red Skeezix are both Lords of Slaughter. And of course, Red and septimus will know for sure the second theory is wrong if either of them are townies. I’ll also note than a claimed pro-town vigilante is not likely to survive the night. So, Lords of Slaughter, possibly tried to kill Lightfoot who was probably protected. What can I conclude from this? Red Skeezix could very well be the pro-town assassin, blocked by a Lord of Slaughter power-absorbing role who stole special ed’s abilities, and the Lords of Slaughter probably knew about the vigilante due to septimus’ claim about an assassin. Therefore, they could claim based on the lack of kills that they did indeed block an assassin, since they know that they are the Lords of Slaughter. Therefore ShadowFacts who is already big suspect claims that Red Skeezix is a Lord of Slaughter. Well, Red Skeezix is a Lord of Slaughter if the Assassin in this game is not pro-town. Otherwise he’s the assassin on our side, and there’s another explanation for the lack of Lord kill. Mayhaps ShadowFacts was trying to block Lightfoot’s protector, while also having his teammates attack Lightfoot. Therefore, Lightfoot did not die because the real doctor was not blocked, and another player did not die because ShadowFacts blocked the Assassin. And I’m going to be the devil’s advocate and suggest that this is the case. And I’m going to suggest that ShadowFacts be not given a pass, again, and he must give up his voting power to someone else today, and that someone should be Lightfoot. And I’m going to vote for ShadowFacts, because I don’t trust him. **Vote: ShadowFacts** I can also buy that septimus and ShadowFacts are pro-town targets. septimus barely escaped lynch and so did ShadowFacts. The mafia would be targeting someone like Lightfoot, or someone they suspect to be Lightfoot’s defender. ShadowFacts’ claim does not make him a candidate for that. I conclude that Red Skeezix \*could \*in fact the pro-town assassin, and I think my theory that he stole special ed’s powers based on a Lord of Slaughter-related power role is just as likely as his story about being a universal backup. That said, I’m looking at Hirka’s post, and I like the questions he’s asking. Red, you’re not getting a pass this round from me, even if I tend to believe your claim for the moment. I want you to answer all questions posed to you by Hirka and anyone else. … You know, I just typed up all this, and something strikes me as odd. I’ll leave it for now, but I’m not sure I agree with myself from like two seconds ago. A bulletproof townie WOULD be a bit much in this game, but what if a powered-up Lord of Slaughter “assassin” were able to break through the bulletproof protection? In other words, he’s bulletproof only to an extent. The idea being, if the assassin levels up, he can smash the bulletproof townie. Here’s the problem though. In order to level up, Red Skeezix will have to vote for his fellow Lords of Slaughter, if he is indeed such a thing. Or he’ll have to vote for third party threats to the townie cause, to gain experience. Red Skeezix, what level are you? ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2011, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/1266 "2011-07-31T06:04:24Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > Here’s the problem though. In order to level up, Red Skeezix will have to vote for his fellow Lords of Slaughter, if he is indeed such a thing. Or he’ll have to vote for third party threats to the townie cause, to gain experience. The only method we know of for Slaughters gaining XP is performing the nightkill. Town players are the ones gaining from voting for scum. (I’m gonna guess that scum power roles gain XP from using their skills as well but that’s not explicitly stated by the mods.) ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2011, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/1267 "2011-07-31T06:05:37Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > The only method we know of for Slaughters gaining XP is performing the nightkill. Town players are the ones gaining from voting for scum. (I’m gonna guess that scum power roles gain XP from using their skills as well but that’s not explicitly stated by the mods.) Could you link me to the post which addresses this, if possible? Do you remember where it said that? ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2011, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/1268 "2011-07-31T06:10:05Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > This game has an RPG element: During the course of the game, certain actions can award experience points (XP from now on). XP is used in various roleplaying games to “level up” and increase in power. If you’re a power role of some kind in this game, leveling up can boost your powers - or grant you new, unique powers instead! There are a variety of ways to earn XP in this game. Lynching scum will award XP for all players who voted for that player. Using your powers will award you XP. And for scum, performing the night kill will also award XP. It’s right here in, you know, the very first post of the game. So craftily hidden. (Although, I originally interpreted “using your powers will earn you XP” as only applying to town but there’s no reason why it wouldn’t.) ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2011, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/1269 "2011-07-31T06:12:14Z")
Hmmm! Well that changes things a bit in my mind. It would seem then, that septimus’ bulletproof power would only keep him alive for the first half of the game, probably. That severely diminishes the power of such a role, making it less breaking. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2011, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/1270 "2011-07-31T06:13:00Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > This is going to be a rare, no color explanation of the leveling mechanic before we get started. For town, there are two ways to earn experience. Using your powers will grant you 50% of a level. Lynching scum will grant you a whole level. There is a 100% cap on experience per day/night cycle, which means successfully lynching scum will cap you for that day and night. > > How do the Lords of Slaughter gain experience? Maybe if you ask them nicely, they’ll tell you. This post however seems to imply that scum earn XP in completely different ways than town. Either way, we don’t need to assume that scum are having to bus each other to level up. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2011, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/1271 "2011-07-31T06:14:12Z")
Drat. That would have been fun. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2011, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/1272 "2011-07-31T06:21:25Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > Hmmm! Well that changes things a bit in my mind. > > It would seem then, that septimus’ bulletproof power would only keep him alive for the first half of the game, probably. That severely diminishes the power of such a role, making it less breaking. We haven’t nailed any scum so far; the highest level any town power role could have, barring a unique role condition is halfway to level 3 and it’s Day 4, now. At this rate it will be Day 8 before anyone is level 5. If we had lynched scum every day starting from Day 1, starting day 5, some players could be level 5, but by then we’d have lynched 4 scum and the game would be almost or completely over. And, of course if the assassin gets NKed or lynched at some point along the way, the bulletproof role retains its protection the whole game. To sum up, I don’t think the role is diminished at all in power. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2011, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/1273 "2011-07-31T06:24:27Z")
Do you think the Lords of Slaughter start at level 1? If they began at level 3, then this looks more plausible. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2011, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/1274 "2011-07-31T06:33:54Z")
Barring evidence to the contrary, yes, I assume the Slaughters start at Level 1. Why, what makes you think they start at level 3? ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2011, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/1275 "2011-07-31T08:48:17Z")
I have no idea, I’m just spitballing. You have to figure the Lords have some kind of advantage. I’d wager a guess that it is either sheer numbers, awesome cover roles, and/or experience bonus. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2011, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/1276 "2011-07-31T10:12:54Z")
It may be conceivable that both Shadow and Red’s claims are true (or even that both are false?), but in my judgment the “percentage guess” is that Red is lying: Others have pointed out flaws in his claim; and his posting to date has been marked by lurking and AFAICT, little in the way of pro-Town reasoning. **Vote: Red Skeezix** Despite this, I think some WIFOM’ing is going on. Something that strikes me is this: If Pizza and Shadow are both Town, would Scum have targeted Shadow before Pizza? I’d definitely think just the opposite, but want to hear from experienced players. If my line of thought is correct, we may have a good handle on a second Scum: **Vote: Askthepizzaguy** ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2011, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/1277 "2011-07-31T13:39:31Z")
I’m not sure Hirka’s observation about Skeezix is as slam dunk as he thinks, but I want to see what Red has to say about his thought process for all his night choices and vote related to them. It is maddening (and maybe convenient) that there is no second kill from night one to demonstrate that two kills are even possible in this game. It’s definitely convenient that Shadowfacts manages to prevent a kill rigth when he most needs to, given the odds. I’d like to hear his entire thought process on Red Skeezix in excruciating detail. (And to a lesser extent, why he didn’t send a message yesterday given he didn’t use the vote power.) ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2011, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/1278 "2011-07-31T14:32:54Z")
I am happy to explain my thought process, fully confident that you will consider it objectively and not find it suspicious at all, **Normal Phase** 😉 Here it is. [ol] [li]I want to try to block the scum kill tonight.[/li][li]Scum know I have the block power and am likely to use it, so they will probably choose someone obscure to make the kill.[/li][li]Hi Opal. I won’t target **Normal Phase** , since they know I suspect her strongly.[/li][li]Who has been laying low?[/li][li] **Red Skeezix** pinged me with [this vote on me](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14040892&postcount=601) a while ago, and he’s been lurking like a champ.[/li][li]Cross fingers.[/li][/ol] ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2011, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/1279 "2011-07-31T15:10:44Z")
Also, @ATPG: You crack me up. The fact that I posted 15 minutes after the start of the Day is supposed to be evidence that I’m lying? Man, you’re a freakin’ yoga master. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2011, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/1280 "2011-07-31T15:21:24Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > I all but did, actually. Reading your case against him, I do agree that his votes seem ‘safe’, and his sudden appearance at the mention of his name is noteworthy. I’m not going to vote for him Today, but it would be nice to see more of a contribution from him. Yes, I have been a very crappy player this game. Real life has left me little time for much more than reading along. The shear volume of posts and the length of some cases has made it more difficult for me to follow who is suspicious of whom. And so my votes have been based more on general gestalt and the cases I can understand. I’ll try to go better not to suck so bad. As for Today, if we assume for a minute that \*\*Red \*\*and \*\*Shadow \*\*are both telling the truth, then what do we think happened to the Scum’s nightkill? I think it’s unlikely they’re both telling the truth, so for now I’m going to **vote Red Skeezix** And Pizza, your post is so full of convoluted logic I can’t help but think that it’s meant to confuse Town. **Vote Askthepizzaguy** [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052.md?page=63) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052.md?page=65)