# De'endee Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [July 6, 2011, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052 "2011-07-06T16:30:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 81
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/1601 "2011-08-05T13:08:14Z")
(OOG at ATPG: I don’t see you on MSN. Sending you a chess game by PM (here) if you want to look at it.) ETA: LOL ---
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/1602 "2011-08-05T13:11:26Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > Just for completeness sake, what did you mean by this post, Weedy? It was just a dumb idea. I was thinking that it would prove or disprove Septimus’s claim, but it wouldn’t have given his alignment, and it would expose the vig, and it would destroy the whole point of having a bullet-proof townie. It was just not a very well-thought-out idea. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/1603 "2011-08-05T13:14:01Z")
> [@Weedy](#): > > It was just a dumb idea. I was thinking that it would prove or disprove Septimus’s claim, but it wouldn’t have given his alignment, and it would expose the vig, and it would destroy the whole point of having a bullet-proof townie. It was just not a very well-thought-out idea. Out of context it looks as though you’re nervous about something like a vigilante hitting septimus. It doesn’t make much sense as a scum slip in context. Still, it was eyebrow-raising. More eyebrow-raising were comments by various folks along the game with regard to septimus and shadowfacts. I suppose I’ll have to do a tl:dr version of the tl:dr version of the thread. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/1604 "2011-08-05T13:21:47Z")
> [@Scuba\_Ben](#): > > A micro Mafia game of AtPG, Meeko, and peeker and nobody else. I’d pay real money to see that! > > Zimbabwe money that is. Now to explain the rest of the joke. Zimbabwe had had a somewhat stable economy. Then the government began a major campaign of land ownership redistribution, trashing the foundation of the economy. Hyperinflation ensued. The Zimbabwe dollar was devalued into the second $ZW, which soon enough was devalued into the third $ZW – the banknotes of which had expiration dates. THAT got devalued into the fourth $ZW, which barely hit the streets before Zimbabwe could no longer come up with the hard currency to buy the ink and special paper. For a few years now, Zimbabwe has had no official currency of its own. [_Exit, pursued by a boar_] ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/1605 "2011-08-05T13:23:40Z")
> [@Scuba\_Ben](#): > > [_Exit, pursued by a boar_] Come now Scuba, we’re not \*that \*dull. ---
**Author:** ![gnarlycharlie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@gnarlycharlie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarlycharlie)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/1606 "2011-08-05T13:55:44Z")
i was thinking about **septimus** ’ claim. while it was a lie he did mention that a level 5 assassin could kill him. was this before or after **Red** ’s claim? if it’s before, how did he know there was an assassin? wouldn’t that imply that the assassin is scum? i suppose the may have had a scanner or role investigator of some sort but it would have meant the scum were lucky to investigate the assassin. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/1607 "2011-08-05T14:02:41Z")
If I’m right about what Septimus was, I expect his role PM actually reads something like this: “You are immune to all town actions except by a level 5 assassin, seer, mystic, or …” That sort of thing. That said to a certain extent I am piling speculation on speculation here, and objectively speaking I think it’s still possible that Red could be scum. I’m hoping night actions will shed some light on something. ETA: And it was before, Septimus’ claim came first. ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/1608 "2011-08-05T14:08:19Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > Come now Scuba, we’re not \*that \*dull. At the risk of sounding rude, I wasn’t talking about you. [_Exit, pursuing a beer_] ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/1609 "2011-08-05T14:31:56Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > **DAMNING.** look at the context. > > Suburban is septimus’ partner, I’m above 90% certain on this now. > > **9/10 scum reading.** The context, since ATPG left it unsaid: Silver Jan considers chucking both her votes on Septimus to save herself. At this point, SJ, Septimus, and ATPG are all contenders for the lynch. > [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > I have looked at the vote count and my immediate reaction was to unvote and vote for \*\*Septimus \*\*(twice) just so I wouldn’t be lynched. I still want to do that but I couldn’t justify it, so although I will not go quietly I will not place a vote on someone that I haven’t considered before. I might change my mind tomorrow 🙂 Suburban Plankton says this: > [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > Just out of curiosity, why \*\*Septimus \*\*necessarily? You could achieve the same result by voting for **Askthepizzaguy**. > > @ **choie** , by my count, **Silver Jan** is voting for you and for **Ed** , so she is not ‘locked in’. SP’s attitude toward ATPG on day two might explain this post independent of anything to do with Septimus, but the tone doesn’t fit. SP was clearly annoyed with ATPG (definitely true and not an act now, whether town OR mafia!), yet this is so diffident. “just out of curiosity”/“necessarily”/“could achieve” It’s concern he’s showing here, not righteous aggression. I think it’s about Septimus. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/1610 "2011-08-05T14:44:46Z")
A quote from ATPG’s wall of words: > [@](#): > > 290 pedescribe to septimus > “This is just plain wrong. You are conflating two ways one could get XP: > -Using a second vote on the Lynch Leader > -Switching their main vote to the lynch leader > Atpg came out against the first one only, yet you seem to think he disapproves of both.” That’s pretty forceful for scum-on-scum. Another minor townie point for Pedescribe. Edit@ ATPG: post 370 from Septimus is presented as identical to post 348 from Septimus. In context I guess teh second one is mis-copied, but there’s no way I can go back to see what he said at the moment. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/1611 "2011-08-05T14:58:41Z")
Even with 5 scum, by the time anyone got to level 5, the scum would all be dead and the game over. (Unless there’s a pfk around.) And anyway, there’s a leveling cap for each day/night cycle making it so you can only gain, at most, one level any given day/night cycle. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/1612 "2011-08-05T15:23:54Z")
I don’t know that this rises to the point where I want Weedy on the night-action short list, but I definitely do have some suspicion now based on her day two posts. I think all of that needs to be put together, with vote timing and everything, to look at. I had almost forgotten about this: > [@](#): > > 841 Red Skeezix to septimus “Really? You posted right at 6:59 to say you’re town? > Bullshit. > Somebody should vig this guy.” That felt very townie to me at the time, even absent the later claim of vig from RS himself. I’ve obviously questioned that conclusion since, but … meh. > [@](#): > > 882 Suburban "Why are you waiting? If you happen to wake up dead Tomorrow, then you won’t have a chance to explain anything. If you have some useful information, why not share it now, while you know you have a chance to do so? " That one did not feel genuine as a question. What I wanted to say when I first read it:" “because he’s scum, duh”. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/1613 "2011-08-05T15:30:32Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Even with 5 scum, by the time anyone got to level 5, the scum would all be dead and the game over. (Unless there’s a pfk around.) And anyway, there’s a leveling cap for each day/night cycle making it so you can only gain, at most, one level any given day/night cycle. No, it would work with five: Start at one Lynch one scum: two Lynch two scum: three Lynch three scum: four Lynch four scum: five. So you’d have to be in the lynch of all of the first four scum to get there, but it could be done. Right at the moment that sounds upsettingly plausible. Unless there are other ways for roles to level up; I can’t remember exactly what Astral said. I’d prefer for Lightfoot and Red Skeezix and maybe Shadowfacts to weigh in on that. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/1614 "2011-08-05T15:34:57Z")
Using your power gets you halfway to a level. Everyone started at level one. Anyone who got a night action off night one got halfway to level two. Of those people, any who got an action off night 2 leveled up to level 2. And so on. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/1615 "2011-08-05T15:36:32Z")
> [@](#): > > 922 Normal "I don’t think it’s likely that both choie and Septimus are mafia given the latter’s snuggling of the former yesterDay. Hmm. Good point, self. Dunno, dunno, dunno. Townie Texcat did see it as “coziness” as opposed to snuggling, and she was certainly right about some other things. I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/1616 "2011-08-05T15:39:34Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Using your power gets you halfway to a level. Everyone started at level one. Anyone who got a night action off night one got halfway to level two. Of those people, any who got an action off night 2 leveled up to level 2. And so on. I knew there was a reason I liked you. Awesomesauce. So four scum is perfectly reasonable tehn. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/1617 "2011-08-05T15:49:27Z")
> [@](#): > > 1039 septimus post > I’m voting Normal and TexCat, but ATPG is still high on my suspect list. Let’s reiterate that Normal Phase and ATPG are attempting to dominate the discussion. Most of the posts are from them, and they insist that we spend our posts answering their questions. Heh. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/1618 "2011-08-05T16:01:03Z")
This was long before the vote swing to Septimus got going. > [@](#): > > 1317 septimus "I’m far from convinced that Normal and Pizza are correct, but thinking through the possibility of Shadow being Scum, I now realize that Shadow’s power is much more powerful than it seems. > > 1. His quadruple-voting power will grow and grow in importance as numbers dwindle. > 2. He can influence the Lynch on Days when he doesn’t even use the Power, by just threatening to use it. He’s already threatened that toDay, and it was implicit yesterDay as well. > 3. It may soon be too late to Lynch Shadow just because of the vote numbers. In that case Town’s victory will depend on our Vigilante. Yet Shadow is trying to get us to Lynch our claimed Vig." “Bussing” a teammate who’s getting too much pressure, or hoping to smear a townie enough the vote swings away from Red? ---
**Author:** ![MentalGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/439d5e/32.png) [@MentalGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MentalGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/1619 "2011-08-05T16:05:02Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > I’ve done further analysis, and I could post it. However I’m starting to sense I’d do better if I just kept it to myself. I’ve instead saved it to a text file if anyone asks. > > **In short** , > > choie’s behavior towards Normal makes no sense, given the recent septimus flip. Her attitude toward me and Normal both is of annoyance. Well regardless of if our play styles have rubbed her the wrong way, it’s sort of doubtful the reason someone would look at Normal funny at this point is due to legitimate suspicion. > > It actually reads more as straight annoyance, possibly based on the outcome of the game so far. Her reactions to the septimus situation when I first read it were viewed from a “if septimus is townie” situation and I felt it could have been perfect information. Which is slightly scummy. > > Well, septimus didn’t flip town, and the same action which reads as slightly scummy if septimus is town reads as far, far more scummy now that he’s mafia. It’s much more likely that choie and septimus are both guilty. > > It would explain a lot of things about choie right now. It explains why her being blocked is an idea she cannot accept, and it’s probably that comment which prompted her to post and say it’s a bad idea. It explains her defense of septimus’ behavior, and her defense of Suburban’s doubletalk and flip-flopping. > > I would be \*surprised \*if Shadow blocked her. As such, I will be voting choie myself next round should I survive. > > My revised list of suspects puts her and Suburban Plankton right at the top, tied for number one. Weedy and to a lesser extent, Inner Stickler, are occupying the number 2 and 3 slots. > \*\* > > 1. Suburban Plankton > 2. choie > 3. Weedy > 4. Inner Stickler\*\* I realize you modify Inner Stickler with “to a lesser extent”, but what puts him on your list in the first place. Is it anything other than his late move to vote septimus yesterDay? ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052/1620 "2011-08-05T16:06:28Z")
This is from a post of Septimus that Pizza didn’t quote: > [@](#): > > 1. Although I’m still far from sure he’s a Townie, Pizza’s plan makes sense to me. Delaying the Lynch on Red is harmless if we promise ourselves to Lynch him toMorrow. One objection to Pizza’s plan is that we don’t have an alternate Lynch candidate defined. Another objection is that, since Pizza is himself a suspect, someone else should help work out the details. > > 2. The uncertainty in the Normal -vs- Shadow struggle clouds the whole decision-making. Red’s death may not even resolve that. If he flips Town, I’ll still wonder if Shadow is Town. If he flips Scum, Pizza & Normal may still wonder if Shadow is Scum, while my FOS will point toward Shadow’s detractors. Shadow’s detractors being: me and Pizza (and Hirka. But it’s me and Pizza he’s been after all through here). Who are to be FOSed _if Red turns up scum_. And delaying Red’s lynch is harmless even if Red is scum. My paranoia about it being Septimus AND Red (and probably not ShadowFacts!) is getting greater. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052.md?page=80) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deendee-mafia/588052.md?page=82)