# Deep Space 9 and Voyager Re-watch \[edited title\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 10, 2012, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deep-space-9-and-voyager-re-watch-edited-title/615409 "2012-03-10T21:40:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deep-space-9-and-voyager-re-watch-edited-title/615409/101 "2012-03-27T03:03:56Z")
> [@NiceGuyJack](#): > > . I just don’t see how two different species evolving from different planets would ever be able to produce off-spring. [/spoiler] > Again, perhaps just a small nitpick. > [@gonzoron](#): > > Trek has been inconsistent about the half-breed issue. In Enterprise, a vulcan/human hybrid didn’t “just happen”. Without proper fantasy medical procedures, it failed to work. The implication was that Spock and other hybrids required some sort of voodoo prep-work to get a viable embryo. Of course, that stretches disbelief a bit when there are so many half-Romulans, half-Klingons and the like running around, with the implication that their births were not intentional. I don’t think spoiler boxes are necessary for such an old show. For the half-breed issue, consider that episode of TNG which revealed that there was an ancient race of humanoids that seeded various planets, which means that various races are actually closely related. ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deep-space-9-and-voyager-re-watch-edited-title/615409/102 "2012-03-27T08:42:32Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > For the half-breed issue, consider that episode of TNG which revealed that there was an ancient race of humanoids that seeded various planets, which means that various races are actually closely related. All of the life forms on earth are related to each other fundamentally, but I don’t see any half human/half dogs out there. ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deep-space-9-and-voyager-re-watch-edited-title/615409/103 "2012-03-27T11:49:08Z")
Yeah, as silly as the “seeding” episode may be, it does kind of explain things. The races of Star Trek are probably more like real races (albeit more extreme) and not different species. ---
**Author:** ![Hallucinex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ba9def/32.png) [@Hallucinex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hallucinex)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deep-space-9-and-voyager-re-watch-edited-title/615409/104 "2012-03-27T12:04:22Z")
> [@NiceGuyJack](#): > > That might have been true regarding Worf and Riker’s friendship, but that still doesn’t give any indications regarding Troi. > > Perhaps it was intentionally left unexplained. Did Worf ever interact with Troi’s mother when she was on DS9? ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deep-space-9-and-voyager-re-watch-edited-title/615409/105 "2012-03-27T12:46:25Z")
> [@Hallucinex](#): > > Did Worf ever interact with Troi’s mother when she was on DS9? Well, “Mister Woof” certainly would have remembered her from TNG. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deep-space-9-and-voyager-re-watch-edited-title/615409/106 "2012-03-27T13:22:38Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I think it would be pretty cool if one of them brought a sawed off Mossberg out from his robe and blew the other guy through the wall, wand and all. 🙂 [Relevant Sluggy Freelance cartoon](http://www.sluggy.com/comics/archives/daily/080425). ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deep-space-9-and-voyager-re-watch-edited-title/615409/107 "2012-03-27T13:31:34Z")
Their was a multi part TNG episode where Worf finds a lost prison colony that Romulans created to hold Klingon prisoners of war, the Romulan guards were told to execute all POWs and abandon the facility and they instead lied about it because several had fallen in love with prisoners. Klingon/Romulan hybrids abound in this episode, all were conceived in a remote jungle POW camp with no access to fancy voodoo technology. I’m pretty sure the Romulan empire wasn’t going to provide fertility treatments so guards could conceive with POWs. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deep-space-9-and-voyager-re-watch-edited-title/615409/108 "2012-03-27T13:43:21Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > [Relevant Sluggy Freelance cartoon](http://www.sluggy.com/comics/archives/daily/080425). Beat me by four years. Dammit. ---
**Author:** ![NiceGuyJack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/niceguyjack/32/3069_2.png) [@NiceGuyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NiceGuyJack)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deep-space-9-and-voyager-re-watch-edited-title/615409/109 "2012-03-27T14:37:15Z")
Just finished watching “A simple investigation” where… Odo has intimate relations with a humanoid for the first time. As a humanoid, I can imagine it could be rather intense having sex with a changeling, but not sure how a changeling would find it pleasurable. But then, Odo does come across as very lonely so perhaps he just enjoys being in company of someone. ---
**Author:** ![NiceGuyJack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/niceguyjack/32/3069_2.png) [@NiceGuyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NiceGuyJack)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deep-space-9-and-voyager-re-watch-edited-title/615409/110 "2012-03-27T15:52:45Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > For the half-breed issue, consider that episode of TNG which revealed that there was an ancient race of humanoids that seeded various planets, which means that various races are actually closely related. That could explain it, but only if they seeded with ready made humanoids. And then there is the Vulcan blood, which is green. IIRC, I seem to recall how McCoy once said that Vulcan blood was copper based rather than iron like humans. Physiologically, it would seem it would be near on impossible for a human/vulcan half breed. And in Spok’s case, he seems to have inherited Vulcan copper blood. How could he possibly have survived as his mother was pumping human blood into him as a fetus in his mother’s womb. In that respect, even if vulcan/human hybrids were to be possible, the blood would necessarily have to be that of the mother. Green copper blood for a Vulcan mother or red iron blood for a human mother. And I recall a few episodes where they talk about multiple hearts and different locations of organs for different life forms. In this context, humans would have more biological physiological similarities to a giraffe than a vulcan, yet as we all know it would be impossible to have a human giraffe offspring. Evolutionarily too different. Even our closest relative, the chimpanzee would not be able to produce a half breed offspring. (At least that we know of). I guess, since GR made Spok a half breed in TOS, writers have continued to allow it in the Star Trek universe. I think GR could have made Spok into a full Vulcan, I don’t think that really would have taken away much from the original series, especially since Spok very rarely showed his human side. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deep-space-9-and-voyager-re-watch-edited-title/615409/111 "2012-03-27T16:50:48Z")
> [@NiceGuyJack](#): > > I think GR could have made Spok into a full Vulcan, I think GR should have spelled his name “Spock.” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![NiceGuyJack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/niceguyjack/32/3069_2.png) [@NiceGuyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NiceGuyJack)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deep-space-9-and-voyager-re-watch-edited-title/615409/112 "2012-03-27T16:56:51Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I think GR should have spelled his name “Spock.” 🙂 Indeed he would. I thought that looked wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deep-space-9-and-voyager-re-watch-edited-title/615409/113 "2012-03-27T19:43:32Z")
[quote=“NiceGuyJack, post:93, topic:615409”] So Worf and Dax are… a couple. Which would indicate that Worf somehow broke up with Diana Troi. I can’t remember seeing anything or hearing about how they broke up. I don’t specifically recall, but Worf left Enterprise and went to DS9. They aren’t going to have a long distance relationship. 😉 Besides, didn’t Troi and Riker get back together? > [@TBG](#): > > The point is, the Q violate far more than changelings do, not how they got that powerful or what their methods are. If the Q can turn Wesley into an adult, whats so strange about a being that can alter its mass while changing shape? So Q can turn Wesley into an adult or change the physical constants of the universe or whatever, how come Worf can’t sprout lasers from his eyeballs? It’s all about explaining your inconsistencies in a plausible manner. Q is projected as being superpowerful, so demonstrating superpowers is consistent and explained. Odo is not explained as having superpowers, he is explained as being able to change his shape. Ergo, the behavior of mass and volume inconsistencies remains unexplained and jarring. I do like the suggestion that Odo can take on a vapor form. It does raise other complications, such that a gaseous form should be subject to the same principles as other gases, and expands to fill the local enclosed volume. What happens when a door opens? If he had some sort of self-generated containment field, though… Alternately, he has a mechanism to push off and take back on matter when transforming shapes. Dump to atmosphere, grap whatever is handy. Except we never see a shapeshifter deciding it would be nice to be twice the size, so they could smush a Klingon. There are probably ways to fanwank a number of plausible explanations, but they all run into complications that the natural implications were never demonstrated on the show, thus making them hard to justify. ---
**Author:** ![NiceGuyJack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/niceguyjack/32/3069_2.png) [@NiceGuyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NiceGuyJack)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2012, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deep-space-9-and-voyager-re-watch-edited-title/615409/114 "2012-03-31T17:30:06Z")
Season 6 now. It just gets better and better. I thought the episode named “The Magnificent Ferengi” was quite funny. And I confess I never realized that Iggy Pop played the Vorta Yelgrun. I mean I like his music, I never knew he could act as well. The only thing that bothered me is that it wasn’t made clear… why or how Mugi was captured by the Dominion. Did I miss the explanation? Should I re-watch it? What would the Dominion want with her? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2012, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deep-space-9-and-voyager-re-watch-edited-title/615409/115 "2012-03-31T20:15:56Z")
> [@NiceGuyJack](#): > > I thought the episode named “The Magnificent Ferengi” was quite funny. That was great. “I _hate_ Ferengi.” As to your spoiler, I thought they believed it to give them some influence on the Grand Nagus. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2012, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deep-space-9-and-voyager-re-watch-edited-title/615409/116 "2012-03-31T20:25:01Z")
I believe the original idea with making Spock only half-Vulcan was to make him identifiable with humans. The original idea seemed to be that Vulcans were really only perfectly logical, and Spock was an oddball and was also half human, thus having emotions. The hidden emotions would then help us relate to him, rather than him just seeming like a distant robot. Now, of course, every Vulcan is pretty much exactly like Spock, and so I understand why you wouldn’t think he needed his human half. I actually think the new movie did a lot to Spock’s human half different, and I hope they keep it up. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2012, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deep-space-9-and-voyager-re-watch-edited-title/615409/117 "2012-03-31T20:32:09Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Their was a multi part TNG episode where Worf finds a lost prison colony that Romulans created to hold Klingon prisoners of war, the Romulan guards were told to execute all POWs and abandon the facility and they instead lied about it because several had fallen in love with prisoners. Klingon/Romulan hybrids abound in this episode, all were conceived in a remote jungle POW camp with no access to fancy voodoo technology. I’m pretty sure the Romulan empire wasn’t going to provide fertility treatments so guards could conceive with POWs. There was another episode where Romulan blood, despite being green, was somehow a better match for Klingon blood than any human’s. (Klingon blood was only purple in the movies, reportedly due to ratings. It was red on the show.) Worf was really upset about the idea of accepting blood from a Romulan, if I remember correctly. Anyways, I handwave this all away by remembering that those aliens didn’t just seed life on other planets, but were supposed to have programmed it to be similar to them. Though why Delta Quadrant species are also similar is never explained. ---
**Author:** ![NiceGuyJack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/niceguyjack/32/3069_2.png) [@NiceGuyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NiceGuyJack)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2012, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deep-space-9-and-voyager-re-watch-edited-title/615409/118 "2012-04-01T16:50:37Z")
“In the Pale Moonlight”. Fantastic episode. I might have to put that one on the top of my favorite DS9 episodes. It’s a shame the following episode is the very first Vic Fontaine episode. Talk about going from high to low. I had forgotten about Vic, and now I’m remembering that Vic makes several more appearances in the last two seasons. I really found the Vic episodes tedious. There is a huge war going on against the Dominion, surely they could have come up with more material on the war instead of a 60’s crooner in a holo-suite. ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2012, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deep-space-9-and-voyager-re-watch-edited-title/615409/119 "2012-04-01T16:53:45Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > There was another episode where Romulan blood, despite being green, was somehow a better match for Klingon blood than any human’s. > (Klingon blood was only purple in the movies, reportedly due to ratings. It was red on the show.) Worf was really upset about the idea of accepting blood from a Romulan, if I remember correctly. Yes except that it was Worf was asked to donate blood to a Romulan who was injured, not the other way around. His reaction was basically “fuck that shit”, due to the Romulans having killed his natural family when they attacked his home colony. Series 5 and 6 of DS9 are a-mazing. Series 7… urgh. The ending arc of DS9 was so terrible it almost brought me to tears of frustration. ---
**Author:** ![NiceGuyJack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/niceguyjack/32/3069_2.png) [@NiceGuyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NiceGuyJack)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deep-space-9-and-voyager-re-watch-edited-title/615409/120 "2012-04-06T17:56:02Z")
Finished watching the series and I agree with **Illuminatiprimus** about season 7. The ending arc wasn’t that great, however, it wasn’t that bad. The last six~seven episodes were fast passed and you could tell everything was being crammed in to tie up all loose ends. The early season episodes were painful at times. Especially the Vic Fontaine episodes. At the end though, it was ok for what it was. And now I am suffering withdrawal. On to Voyager next. Maybe I’ll start a new re-watch thread for that if I feel the need to share some thoughts. I enjoyed the conversations and input on this thread. Thanks! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deep-space-9-and-voyager-re-watch-edited-title/615409.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deep-space-9-and-voyager-re-watch-edited-title/615409.md?page=7)