# Deep Space 9 on Spike TV, people! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 24, 2004, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deep-space-9-on-spike-tv-people/236216 "2004-03-24T22:41:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2004, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deep-space-9-on-spike-tv-people/236216/41 "2004-04-07T01:00:03Z")
“Hollywood friendly” (not something I made up… I’m sure I read it back around '97 or so when he changed it) probably just means Anglo sounding. With an English name, he might be able to avoid ethnic typecasting a bit more than other Middle Easterners with authentic names. It’s all moot now 'cause as far as I know (I’ve not checked IMDB to be sure) he’s sticking mostly to Britsh theatre now. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2004, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deep-space-9-on-spike-tv-people/236216/42 "2004-04-07T03:02:03Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > I’m even more thoroughly confused as to why DS9 is ranked between Voyager and Enterprise to most Trek fans. Mrs. Plant says, “It ain’t Trek. It’s too dark.” Remember when they finally had a cool TNG episode? The little scorpion things that were taking over the Federation, and Picard and Riker killed one and it’s host when it ran down the guy’s mouth? The writers were apologetic to have actually killed something, and never went anywhere with the threat that the alien thingies had sent a signal. In DS9, if they weren’t wiping blood and guts off their sleeves they were having a bad day. DS9 was defined for me (I liked it perhaps even better than TOS, but don’t tell Mrs. Plant) by Sisko’s comment “Earth is paradise, but out here it is not paradise.” I’ve wondered if a Black guy wasn’t intended to make it a non paradise series. I also find it interesting that the two least liked series were commanded by an African American and a woman. And the Ferecnghi were played by Jews and the Klingons by African Americans. ---
**Author:** ![Bambi\_Hassenpfeffer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Bambi\_Hassenpfeffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bambi_Hassenpfeffer)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2004, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deep-space-9-on-spike-tv-people/236216/43 "2004-04-07T03:11:54Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > Out of the fifteen episodes I’ve seen so far, only one has really sucked so far - The Storyteller. DS9 has definitely aged better than TNG and its first season obviously came off a whole lot better on the whole as well. > > After watching these shows, I’m even more thoroughly confused as to why DS9 is ranked between Voyager and Enterprise to most Trek fans. It’s completely nonsensical. “The Storyteller” is a real POS. Compared to TNG, DS9 is much more watchable early on – the show finds its feet pretty much from the first episode, where TNG took at least a season, maybe a season and a half. That’s probably because by the time DS9 premiered, the production team and writers had experience with the Trekiverse. I’m similarly mystified at the poor ratings DS9 received. That it’s ranked below Voyager is simply stunning to me. I get the “It’s too dark” thing also when I ask others, but I disagree. The universe is not a friendly place, and that’s what always rang false about TOS and TNG. VOY had a chance to be really daring and out there, but every week, damage the ship suffered previously was forgotten and schizophrenic Janeway was puttering along at impulse. DS9 all the way, baby. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2004, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deep-space-9-on-spike-tv-people/236216/44 "2004-04-07T03:20:49Z")
> [@Bambi Hassenpfeffer](#): > > but every week, damage the ship suffered previously was forgotten and schizophrenic Janeway was puttering along at impulse. A nitpick, but not true. Were not those serious holes from a Borg encounter, big red patches on the saucer section from whenever they occured on the model till the end of the series? Indeed, they did lose some wonderfull character development with Chakotay. _Scorpion_ was a great episode with the way Janeway and he worked, but unfortuantely acquired whats-his-name’s girl friend as a character and the program became _Star Trek: Seven of Nine._ ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2004, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deep-space-9-on-spike-tv-people/236216/45 "2004-04-07T03:24:03Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Mrs. Plant says, “It ain’t Trek. It’s too dark.”… > > …In DS9, if they weren’t wiping blood and guts off their sleeves they were having a bad day… But that is what makes DS9 so good. It’s dark and it doesn’t try to put on airs like TNG did. Every society has a seedy underbelly and Sisko and crew exposed the Federation’s, giving it a much needed breath of fresh air after all the flowery aeresol crap that Picard had been spraying for the six years prior. > [@](#): > > DS9 was defined for me (I liked it perhaps even better than TOS, but don’t tell Mrs. Plant) by Sisko’s comment “Earth is paradise, but out here it is not paradise.” What episode was that in? That’s a really good summation of the entire series. > [@](#): > > I’ve wondered if a Black guy wasn’t intended to make it a non paradise series. I also find it interesting that the two least liked series were commanded by an African American and a woman. And the Ferecnghi were played by Jews and the Klingons by African Americans. I may be naive or idealistic but I really don’t see any ulterior motives in casting Sisko as a black man or Janeway as a woman. They were just trying to be cutting edge. The Ferengi being played by Jews (if that is true… Shimmerman’s Jewish but are the actors that played Rom [Grodenchek?], Zek [Shawn], Nog [Eisenberg?], Brunt [Coombs? Combs?], etc all Jewish as well?) does look pretty suspicious though. > [@Bambi Hassenpfeffer](#): > > “The Storyteller” is a real POS. > > Compared to TNG, DS9 is much more watchable early on – the show finds its feet pretty much from the first episode, where TNG took at least a season, maybe a season and a half. That’s probably because by the time DS9 premiered, the production team and writers had experience with the Trekiverse. I’m similarly mystified at the poor ratings DS9 received. That it’s ranked below Voyager is simply stunning to me. I get the “It’s too dark” thing also when I ask others, but I disagree. The universe is not a friendly place, and that’s what always rang false about TOS and TNG. VOY had a chance to be really daring and out there, but every week, damage the ship suffered previously was forgotten and schizophrenic Janeway was puttering along at impulse. > > DS9 all the way, baby. You have my total agreement on every word of your post. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2004, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deep-space-9-on-spike-tv-people/236216/46 "2004-04-07T03:25:26Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > …but unfortuantely acquired whats-his-name’s girl friend as a character and the program became _Star Trek: Seven of Nine._ Can you rephrase? I’m not following. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2004, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deep-space-9-on-spike-tv-people/236216/47 "2004-04-07T03:28:24Z")
Jeffrey Combs doesn’t _look_ Jewish…🙂 I believe it is the episode during the war when San Francisco is whacked. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2004, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deep-space-9-on-spike-tv-people/236216/48 "2004-04-07T03:35:52Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > Can you rephrase? I’m not following. Sorry. _Scorpion_ introduced Seven of Nine, T&A for the fourteen year old males. She began a relationship with one of the B&B producers, and it literaly became “The Seven of Nine Show”. Writers didn’t write character development (Janeway had just given into Chakotay about the Borg being assholes, they could have gone great places from there) they wrote episodes to show off the girl friend. What idiocy was it to have Seven romantically involved with Chakotay in the series finale? How much more motivated of Janeway it would have been to risk her career and live to rescue Chakotay and or Tuvok without that silliness. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2004, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deep-space-9-on-spike-tv-people/236216/49 "2004-04-07T03:39:47Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Jeffrey Combs doesn’t _look_ Jewish…🙂 Well, I grew up in a small Southern town… I couldn’t tell you what Jewish looks like. Hell, I was sixteen or older before I knew Seinfeld was Jewish. > [@](#): > > Scorpion introduced Seven of Nine, T&A for the fourteen year old males. She began a relationship with one of the B&B producers, and it literaly became “The Seven of Nine Show”. Writers didn’t write character development (Janeway had just given into Chakotay about the Borg being assholes, they could have gone great places from there) they wrote episodes to show off the girl friend. > What idiocy was it to have Seven romantically involved with Chakotay in the series finale? How much more motivated of Janeway it would have been to risk her career and live to rescue Chakotay and or Tuvok without that silliness. Aha. I’ve never looked into the history of Voyager so the news of Ryan and Berman or Braga being a couple is completely new to me although it does explain why so much time was spent on her character to the detriment of others’. I’ve blocked most of the finale out of my mind. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2004, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deep-space-9-on-spike-tv-people/236216/50 "2004-04-07T03:50:22Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > Well, I grew up in a small Southern town… I couldn’t tell you what Jewish looks like. Humor. It is a difficult concept. [Foghorn leghorn]That’s a joke, Son. I say, a joke. You hang out in Central Europe for a thousand years after the dispora, and sho’ nuff, ya’ll start lookin’ the same.[/Foghorn Leghorn] European Jews were in Central Europe for a long time. Interacting with non Jews meant spending time with Poles who got drunk and beat their wives, so they remained isolated and look, well, like Ashkenazi Jews. BTW, South Carolina has a lot of small Southern towns and a large Jewish population. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2004, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deep-space-9-on-spike-tv-people/236216/51 "2004-04-07T03:55:32Z")
I knew it was a joke, the smiley gave it away. That still doesn’t mean I know what Jewish looks like though. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Mapp](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miss_mapp/32/369_2.png) [@Miss\_Mapp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Mapp)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2004, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deep-space-9-on-spike-tv-people/236216/52 "2004-04-07T11:43:00Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > What episode was that in? That’s a really good summation of the entire series. It was in “The Maquis,” a 2-parter late in the 2nd season. The quote: “The trouble is Earth. On Earth, there is no poverty, no crime, no war. You look out the window of Starfleet Headquarters and you see Paradise–well, it’s easy to be a saint in Paradise.” ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2004, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deep-space-9-on-spike-tv-people/236216/53 "2004-04-07T11:53:26Z")
Thanks, **Miss Mapp**. Garak usually gets the good quotes but Sisko pulls some out every now and again. ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2004, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deep-space-9-on-spike-tv-people/236216/54 "2004-04-07T17:41:52Z")
WAHOOO!!! Man, it was like seeing an old friend for the first time in 5 years. I’ve been meaning to pick up the DVD’s, but this’ll do for now. I caught Move Along Home, The Nagus, Vortex and that one where Kai Opaka “dies” yesterday. Like they say about pizza, even when it’s bad, it’s still pretty good. Little pangs of joy each time I saw something I thought forgotten: The theme song, the beautiful wormhole effect, the Bajoran earrings, Morn, Sisko with hair, Odo’s office, Mahair Du. What a great, great show. Thank you Spike TV! ---
**Author:** ![Bambi\_Hassenpfeffer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Bambi\_Hassenpfeffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bambi_Hassenpfeffer)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2004, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deep-space-9-on-spike-tv-people/236216/55 "2004-04-08T03:21:30Z")
I watched “Duet” yesterday. Wow – just wow. I loved Nana Visitor in this. Her realization that not all Cardassians are culpable in the Occupation was just so well-acted, and the actor for Maritza / Darheel was just so convincing as a megalomanic war criminal. My skin tingled when she was bent over his body at the end. > [@Aesiron](#): > > You have my total agreement on every word of your post. I don’t think anyone has ever said that to me before, or even anything remotely similar. Thank you. I usually agree with you too, at least in re Trek, but I’m not a talker, so I mostly read. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2004, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deep-space-9-on-spike-tv-people/236216/56 "2004-04-08T05:25:01Z")
“Duet” is a great episode. Far and away the best of the first season. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2004, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deep-space-9-on-spike-tv-people/236216/57 "2004-04-08T11:53:03Z")
I saw it when I was about fourteen or so and didn’t really have the maturity to really appreciate it then, so I would like to see it again but will have to wait. Stupid temp job. :mad: > [@](#): > > I don’t think anyone has ever said that to me before, or even anything remotely similar. Thank you. I usually agree with you too, at least in re Trek, but I’m not a talker, so I mostly read. Thanks. It’s good to know my posts are read by someone. I generally believe I’m just mumbling into the wind. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![av8rmike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/edb3f5/32.png) [@av8rmike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/av8rmike)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2004, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deep-space-9-on-spike-tv-people/236216/58 "2004-04-08T13:28:14Z")
I was in college for most of DS9’s run so I only saw a few first season episodes. I knew there was some kind of big war, but I missed the whole thing. I’m thrilled as well that they’re back and on SpikeTV, but I’ve been missing most of the good episodes in the marathons since I’m not home during the day. I guess I can add the show to my Netflix list, but who knows when I’ll have the time to watch that much TV. One thing is for sure, “Enterprise” ain’t doing it for me. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2004, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deep-space-9-on-spike-tv-people/236216/59 "2004-04-08T14:37:17Z")
> [@av8rmike](#): > > I knew there was some kind of big war, but I missed the whole thing. AARRGGGHH!!! Sorry. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2004, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deep-space-9-on-spike-tv-people/236216/60 "2004-04-08T14:49:09Z")
I missed **Duet**?! Dammit! Gotta check that schedule. That’s one of the best episodes of the whole franchise. What do I catch instead? **Melora** (Ugh!) and half of **Rules of Acquisition** (had to switch to American Idol when **GonzoGal** got home.) And it seems I missed **Necessary Evil** , too. Still, I’m loving this week-long marathon. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deep-space-9-on-spike-tv-people/236216.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deep-space-9-on-spike-tv-people/236216.md?page=4)