Thanks for the post, octothorpe. I notice that except for the adult who choked on his food while having a seizure, none of the other “deaths attributed to DEET” are documented.
DEET confuses mosquito’s in the sense they tend to ‘swim’ upstream to the source of CO2 ‘rivers’ in the air. That’s why blowhards get bitten more often 
so as they approach your skin with the repellent applied, their senses tell them they are getting farther away!
This is why a tarp or shelter of some kind can help immensely, also locating camps in high, windy areas versus low lying, calm areas. DEET is highly effective spread on clothes and hair and keeps effectiveness far longer. It will affect Rayon and certain plastics, notably watch crystals and other hard plastics.
However, if you miss a spot, say, your ankles – the skeeters are nothing if not persistent – they will find it and zero in.
Among the best investments one can make is a Mosquito Head Net, available at camp supply stores, military surplus, etc. Judicious use of the chemical on vulnerable skin and exposed areas (skeeters can drill through thick denim!) and heavy concentrations on outer clothing goes a long way towards making life in heavily infested areas bearable.
From **Octothorpe’s ** cite:
I wonder what “acutely” means in this context. None of the studies appear to have lasted over about 10 years. It is well known that cancers may take 20, 30, or more years to develop from a carcinogen. DEET is diethyltuolexene, or some similar sounding chemical (I don’t remember the exact name). IMHO, anything that sounds like that may be carcinogenic. That’s why I said, “How do you know?”
We acquire viruses all the time without getting sick. I don’t get the auto accident analogy. If you are in an auto accident, you will have damaged your car and possibly suffer some other damage. If you get a virus which your immune system can defeat, you wouldn’t even know it. As I sit here typing, I probably have been infected by a rhinovirus. But since I don’t have a cold, I don’t know it.
For my money, I’ll take my chances on the virus, thank you. Now, if you have a compromised immune system, you are in a different boat or car.
barb, there are ways to test for carcinogenicity (is that a word?) other than exposing a bunch of people and waiting 40 years. See that word “mutagenic”? That refers to the tendency of a chemical to react with DNA, therefore causing DNA damage, which could lead to cancer.
Our best science indicates that DEET is not a carcinogen. The West Nile Virus, though not likely to kill you, is a much greater threat than DEET.
Hence, mutagens affect only the germ cells, not the DNA in somatic cells. Well, there may be ways to test for carcinogenicty, but the only way I’ve read about is to expose a bunch of rats to megadoses of the chemical and see what develops. I don’t see where this was done with DEET.
barb, I don’t think that’s true. A mutagen causes mutation in a DNA cell, which can lead to cancer. There’s no restriction that it’s only in germ cells.
From http://www.chem.lsu.edu/lucid/courseinfo/chem1002/ch18.html:
That phrase “all carcinogens are probably mutagens but not all mutagens are carcinogens” implies that if a substance is not a mutagen, its not at all likely to cause cancer.
Originally posted by barbitu8
The truth is that i don’t know. But rather than post an opinion, i dug up a bit of data published by some people who have actually studied the dangers of DEET in an attempt to provide an answer this post. Of course, you could argue that the conclusions presented are opinions, but they are informed opinions arrived at as the result of research.
As to the question from your most recent post:
Originally posted by barbitu8
I think that you have to consider the context of the entire statement (i.e. …acutely toxic…at the doses tested). The Online Medical Dictionary, defines acute as,
“Having a short and relatively severe course.” The site that i linked to in my previous post refers to 2 cases involving children:
These examples fit the definition of ‘acute’ toxicity, but are well outside the ‘doses tested’ as well as being the result of ingestion and not application.
originally posted by barbitu8
While this may be true (and i certainly don’t doubt that it is), there have been 11 documented cases of death attributed to the West Nile Virus this year so there is a demonstrated risk of death as a result of contracting the virus. As far as i have been able to determine, there have been no cases of death attributed to exposure to DEET this year which logically leads me to believe that the dangers associated with the West Nile Virus are greater than the dangers associated with DEET. As CurtC stated:
As to mutagen, the the Online Medical Dictionary (link above) defines it as, “An agent that can cause an increase in the rate of mutation, includes X-rays, ultraviolet irradiation (260 nm) and various chemicals.” and further defines mutation as, “A permanent transmissible change in the genetic material, usually in a single gene. Also, an individual exhibiting such a change. Also called (in classical genetics) a sport.” I believe this definition validates CurtC’s statement.
By all means, stick by your guns and do whatever you feel comfortable with. Again, i am not attempting to persuade you that DEET is 100% safe, just that the West Nile Virus is demonstratively more of a threat than DEET based on the evidence we have to date.
“Well, there may be ways to test for carcinogenicty, but the only way I’ve read about is to expose a bunch of rats to megadoses of the chemical and see what develops. I don’t see where this was done with DEET.”
How about rats, mice, and dogs?
Schoenig GP, Osimitz TG, Gabriel KL, Hartnagel R, Gill MW, Goldenthal EI. Evaluation of the chronic toxicity and oncogenicity of N,N-diethyl-m-toluamide (DEET). Toxicol Sci 1999 Jan;47(1):99-109
From the abstract: “Chronic toxicity and/or oncogenicity studies were conducted in rats, mice, and dogs with the insect repellent DEET. DEET was mixed in the diet and administered to CD rats for two years at concentrations that corresponded to dosage levels of 10, 30 or 100 mg/kg/day for males and 30, 100, or 400 mg/kg/day for females; to CD-1 mice for 18 months at dosage levels of 250, 500, or 1000 mg/kg/day; and to dogs for one year, via gelatin capsules, at dosage levels of 30, 100, or 400
mg/kg/day. In the rodent studies, each group consisted of 60 nimals of each sex, and two concurrent independent control groups, each containing 60 animals/sex were included in each study.” “Treatment-related effects were observed at the highest dose level in all three studies.” "The highest no-observed-effect levels (NO-ELs) for rats, mice and dogs were determined to be 100, 500, and 100 mg/kg/day, respectively. “No specific target organ toxicity or oncogenicity was observed in any of the studies.”
Go to http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/library/randrep/pesticides_paper/mr1018.8.ch5.html for a breakdown of DEET-related deaths and detailed information on its toxicity.
Bolding mine.
Frankly, there are scarier things to worry about than either DEET or WNV
DEET + pyridostigmine bromide = bad
Muffin, there’s a thread active now about pseudo-scicence vs real science, and the stuff listed in this congressman’s letter falls into the former category. As a resident of the Dallas area, I’m ashamed that our own UT Southwestern Medical Center is responsible for so much of it. However, Ross Perot is funding them to look for possible causes of the elusinve “Gulf War Syndrome”, and that’s what they’re coming up with. “Curiously, wherever Perot money goes, a positive GWS finding results.”
For a more reasonable treatment, see Gulf War Syndrome, Round 38 which states:
Well, now, that’s very comforting. Especially since I’ve never known anyone to get sick from DEET (and I’ve been using it for decades) but about two weeks ago I buried a friend who died of West Nile
You make your own choices, of course, and if you prefer something other than DEET that’s fine. But protecting yourself from mosquitoes (however you do so) is, in general, a good thing to do.
The acid in your stomach can dissolve freakin’ steel - is that a cause for concern?
Unless you’re made of plastic, it does not automatically follow that something that dissolves plastic will cause you great harm. I’ve seen hot water melt some kinds of plastic, do you worry about water?
The directions say don’t put in in your eyes or mouth. OK, don’t drink it or use it as eyewash. And if you’re allergic to any of the ingrediants in the lotion other than DEET try another brand.