# Defence of torture and torturers, really? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 12, 2014, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defence-of-torture-and-torturers-really/707016 "2014-12-12T10:52:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2014, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defence-of-torture-and-torturers-really/707016/121 "2014-12-14T03:12:54Z")
Not to mention that the British are the ones who invented the concentration camp. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2014, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defence-of-torture-and-torturers-really/707016/122 "2014-12-14T03:14:58Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > This is nonsense. The British tortured captured SS men in a special house in London following WW2. > > [How Britain tortured Nazi PoWs: The horrifying interrogation methods that belie our proud boast that we fought a clean war | Daily Mail Online](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2223831/How-Britain-tortured-Nazi-PoWs-The-horrifying-interrogation-methods-belie-proud-boast-fought-clean-war.html) **Capt. Ridley** is right, tho: it wasn’t legal when that happened; they did it anyway. There weren’t even attempts, as there were & are in the US, to say that such practices were and/or are acceptable under the law. At least the British had good enough graces to be embarrassed and ashamed of themselves (well, maybe not that Scotland guy). Many Americans are crowing loudly about how it’s their right to torture people, ffs. It’s disgusting. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2014, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defence-of-torture-and-torturers-really/707016/123 "2014-12-14T03:17:12Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Yes, it is. Im pretty sure that if I had predicted that the USA would detain people without due process, use torture, etc… when I joined the board, I would have been laughed out of the thread. Essentially everybody (except say, people like **Der Trihs** ) would have stated that such a thing couldn’t happen in the USA. > > In fact, it’s not so much that I’m surprised that some people would support torture but rather that it became an acceptable view in the USA, supported by many, if not the majority. A mainstream position in this country. And on this board. > > Imagine that instead I’m predicting now that in 2025, the US government will censor medias, and forbid political parties deemed unpatriotic. And that not only it turns out to be true, but also that American people in general and posters on this board in particular become supportive of it. That’s more or less my level of surprise re Guantanamo and torture. 1)No one apprehended in the USA has been detained without due process. 2)European countries censor the media (prohibit the publication of suspects identities, for example) and ban outlier politrical parties (especially those on the far right). ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2014, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defence-of-torture-and-torturers-really/707016/124 "2014-12-14T03:20:11Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > **Capt. Ridley** is right, tho: it wasn’t legal when that happened; they did it anyway. There weren’t even attempts, as there were & are in the US, to say that such practices were and/or are acceptable under the law. > > At least the British had good enough graces to be embarrassed and ashamed of themselves (well, maybe not that Scotland guy). Many Americans are crowing loudly about how it’s their right to torture people, ffs. It’s disgusting. The British were not ashamed of torturing Nazis. They had torture teams out searching for war criminals in Germany after the war. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2014, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defence-of-torture-and-torturers-really/707016/125 "2014-12-14T03:24:34Z")
With great power comes great irresponsibility. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2014, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defence-of-torture-and-torturers-really/707016/126 "2014-12-14T03:27:09Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > The British were not ashamed of torturing Nazis. They had torture teams out searching for war criminals in Germany after the war. Then why did they cover it up and hide it for more than 60 years? Are you sure you know what the word “ashamed” means? ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2014, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defence-of-torture-and-torturers-really/707016/127 "2014-12-14T03:50:21Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Then why did they cover it up and hide it for more than 60 years? > > Are you sure you know what the word “ashamed” means? Hypocrisy would be a better word. They didnt want to be associated with the same criminal action that some nazis were on trial for. Also, it wasnt really covered up and hidden. It was covered by the Official Secrets Act. It was a part of the war effort. And just how was it more embarrassing then targeting civilians in fire bombing attacks? My larger point was that people do extreme things when they feel extremely threatened. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2014, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defence-of-torture-and-torturers-really/707016/128 "2014-12-14T03:52:27Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > 1)No one apprehended in the USA has been detained without due process. José Padilla was for several years. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2014, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defence-of-torture-and-torturers-really/707016/129 "2014-12-14T04:54:30Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > José Padilla was for several years. His case is unique because he was held as an [Enemy combatant - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enemy_combatant) . These cases are quite difficult to deal with through the traditional legal process. Authorities have no access to oversea witnesses/suspects. He planned to kill people. Im not sure how his case could have been handled differently. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2014, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defence-of-torture-and-torturers-really/707016/130 "2014-12-14T05:11:00Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > 1)No one apprehended in the USA has been detained without due process. An interesting qualification. Howabout those detained overseas? Because personally I could give a shit about twisty legalities or constitutional rights that only apply within certain borders. I tend to be a pretty consistent absolutist on this one. Torture bad. Done anywhere for any reason. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2014, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defence-of-torture-and-torturers-really/707016/131 "2014-12-14T05:15:49Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > His case is unique because he was held as an [Enemy combatant - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enemy_combatant) . These cases are quite difficult to deal with through the traditional legal process. Authorities have no access to oversea witnesses/suspects. He planned to kill people.\*\* Im not sure how his case could have been handled differently.\*\* How about put him on trial like the Constitution says he has a right to. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2014, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defence-of-torture-and-torturers-really/707016/132 "2014-12-14T05:35:51Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > How about put him on trial like the Constitution says he has a right to. Which is what ultimately happened anyways. He was sentenced to 17 years in prison, later upped to 21 years. So yeah, it was impossible to try him. Right. No way to handle that differently at all. ---
**Author:** ![Onyerbike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onyerbike/32/5402_2.png) [@Onyerbike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onyerbike)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2014, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defence-of-torture-and-torturers-really/707016/133 "2014-12-14T06:20:58Z")
Only a fascist worm would advocate the torture of little girls. Terr has gone from being a grumpy but educated senior citizen in my books to being utterly puerile and a complete disgrace. Since I have not been here long, in my eyes, wow was that a fast transition. I feel sad now. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2014, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defence-of-torture-and-torturers-really/707016/134 "2014-12-14T06:22:17Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > This is nonsense. The British tortured captured SS men in a special house in London following WW2. > > [How Britain tortured Nazi PoWs: The horrifying interrogation methods that belie our proud boast that we fought a clean war | Daily Mail Online](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2223831/How-Britain-tortured-Nazi-PoWs-The-horrifying-interrogation-methods-belie-proud-boast-fought-clean-war.html) And in Kenya and Malaya and Cyprus and N Ireland and also it seems Iraq and Afghanistan. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2014, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defence-of-torture-and-torturers-really/707016/135 "2014-12-14T08:22:35Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > 2)European countries censor the media (prohibit the publication of suspects identities, for example) and ban outlier politrical parties (especially those on the far right). Your first example is considered a matter of privacy; I don’t know how is it in other countries but in Spain it’s got to do with “judicial secrecy”, with protecting both those who are under investigation from being taken to the gallows when the judiciary is just asking questions, and the investigation itself from getting muddled. You guys think of abortion as a matter of privacy, we see it as one of healthcare; you guys think of publishing the ugliest picture ever taken of someone as a matter of free speech, we don’t. The second normally falls under “incitement to violence” laws. If your laws cover situations outside your borders, then they have to cover them completely, that “I can nab anybody I want anywhere in the world just because I wanna, nyah nyah” is not acceptable. Either a society believes in the rule of law or it doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2014, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defence-of-torture-and-torturers-really/707016/136 "2014-12-14T09:52:02Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Not to mention that the British are the ones who invented the concentration camp. I do wish people would stop repeating that claim. It’s bollocks. > [@](#): > > . Many countries have used concentration camps often during wars or times of trouble and fighting. > > In 376 C.E. the Goths were pushed towards the borders of the Roman Empire by attacks from Huns from the east. The Emperor Valens initially welcomed them as potential army recruits and tax-payers, but changed his policy after it emerged that around 200,000 were coming. He then restricted entry to fit men of military age, constructing enclosed camps patrolled by guards to imprison the unwanted Gothic population. Since very little, if any, food was supplied, the inhabitants died in increasing numbers. The Romans then offere Shortly afterwards the Goths under Fritigern exacted their revenge at the Battle of Adrianople, killing 40,000 Roman troops, including Valens himself. > > The first modern concentration camps were found in the United States in 1838, when the Van Buren administration saw fit to remove the indigenous Cherokee population. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2014, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defence-of-torture-and-torturers-really/707016/137 "2014-12-14T15:22:05Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > I do wish people would stop repeating that claim. It’s bollocks. Even the term wasn’t original to the camps established during the Boer War. It originates from the Spanish _reconcentrados_ for camps set up in Cuba during the independence struggle starting in 1868. Such camps were also used by the US during the Philippine Insurrection starting in 1899. I think that many people who use the term think it’s equivalent to the Nazi extermination camps, which it isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2014, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defence-of-torture-and-torturers-really/707016/138 "2014-12-14T16:36:14Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > This is a false premise, the conservatives are the ones that are fighting to keep monority babies from being aborted. Evil had no part here, they were simply making a decision based on what they felt was the lesser of two evils. What the fuck does this has to do with the issue being discussed in this thread? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2014, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defence-of-torture-and-torturers-really/707016/139 "2014-12-14T16:39:49Z")
Stories of tortures Used by debauchers, Lurid, licentious, and vile, Make me smile. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2014, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defence-of-torture-and-torturers-really/707016/140 "2014-12-14T17:11:05Z")
> [@Onyerbike](#): > > Only a fascist worm would advocate the torture of little girls. Terr has gone from being a grumpy but educated senior citizen in my books to being utterly puerile and a complete disgrace. Since I have not been here long, in my eyes, wow was that a fast transition. I feel sad now. And based on his latest posts **Magiver** has jumped from being an expert at dismissing experts to being a disgraced willful ignorant of experts. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defence-of-torture-and-torturers-really/707016.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defence-of-torture-and-torturers-really/707016.md?page=8)