# defend one man, one vote? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 6, 2013, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defend-one-man-one-vote/652185 "2013-03-06T13:16:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defend-one-man-one-vote/652185/1 "2013-03-06T13:16:31Z")
Sometimes I get a little disheartened thinking about low-information voters, both on my side (I’m far to the left of the Democratic Party) and on the other side. It’s disspiriting to think of elections, not as a battle of ideas or even personalities, but simply who can convince the millions of dimbulbs out there to be scared or this or to be desirious of that. This is not, I must caution you who would paint it otherwise, about a lefty-righty issue, because I do think that there are roughly as many dimbulbs on the left as there are on the right, maybe more. What I’m wondering is if anyone can rationalize a way to put the vote more in the hands of people who are capable of exercising it thoughtfully. Whether this means imposing some sort of intelligence or literacy test, or awarding extra votes to people with advanced degrees, or who pay above a certain amount in taxes, I do not know. I suspect there is no clear cut way, and certainly no legal way as things now stand, to make that determination. But if you were tasked with the job of seeing that the most informed, thoughtful, intelligent voters got privileged somehow in the voting process, how would you go about it? ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defend-one-man-one-vote/652185/2 "2013-03-06T13:37:57Z")
The right to vote in a republic is the right to choose one’s own leaders. There is no way to quantify the process so as to proclaim that certain groups are “better” at choosing their leaders than others, as what makes a given leader desireable to a given voter is entirely subjective. On this basis, I defend one man, one vote. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defend-one-man-one-vote/652185/3 "2013-03-06T13:43:10Z")
One man, one vote is a terrible system. But all others are far, far worse. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defend-one-man-one-vote/652185/4 "2013-03-06T14:09:38Z")
The problems with tests is that it puts all of the power in the hands of the people who write and grade the tests. ---
**Author:** ![Kepler1571](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/db5fbb/32.png) [@Kepler1571](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kepler1571)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defend-one-man-one-vote/652185/5 "2013-03-06T14:37:42Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > One man, one vote is a terrible system. But all others are far, far worse. Well said. And generally speaking, the stupid is evenly distributed. ---
**Author:** ![Ca3799](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9f8e36/32.png) [@Ca3799](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ca3799)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defend-one-man-one-vote/652185/6 "2013-03-06T14:39:23Z")
Even dimbulbs have the right to decide how they want to live. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defend-one-man-one-vote/652185/7 "2013-03-06T14:43:00Z")
Plus the really stupid ones probably don’t vote. Ok, never mind that. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defend-one-man-one-vote/652185/8 "2013-03-06T14:43:02Z")
An argument of this stripe is put forward for taxation. The rich pay more should have a stronger say in how it’s spent. But homeless people/dimbulbs are just as subject to the laws crafted by the people they elect so therefore deserve enfranchisement. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defend-one-man-one-vote/652185/9 "2013-03-06T14:45:22Z")
Weighting the vote in favour of any given group wil lead to the denial of a voice to those outside that group. If the concerns of one group actually count for more then the rest of the citizenry are going to be shorted. ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defend-one-man-one-vote/652185/10 "2013-03-06T14:53:47Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > Sometimes I get a little disheartened thinking about low-information voters, both on my side (I’m far to the left of the Democratic Party) and on the other side. I am assuming you’re very well informed yet you are far to the left of the Democratic Party (which displays variation from one part of the country to another). That fact tells me you must not be processing the information very well. I would not provide you privileged status. > [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > But if you were tasked with the job of seeing that the most informed, thoughtful, intelligent voters got privileged somehow in the voting process, how would you go about it? I would devise a system that guaranteed urban, affluent people with post-graduate degrees got privileged status. I am pretty sure that would guarantee the endless success of the Democratic Party. I might also enhance privileged status to those that sold their status to the highest bidder. I hope you see some problems with your attitude toward your fellow voters and your idea in general. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defend-one-man-one-vote/652185/11 "2013-03-06T14:55:31Z")
If governing authority doesn’t rest in the consent of the governed, where does it come from? Out of the barrel of a gun. This is why we have one man one vote, universal suffrage. Because without it you have apartheid. Yeah, there are quite a few dipsticks out there. But the purpose of democracy is not so that the wise voters can choose the very best leaders. The purpose of democracy is to provide legitimacy to the government, and to occasionally throw out the worst of the worst. If that means that some dipsticks occasionally vote for an even bigger dipstick, so be it. Besides, voting is not the highest expression of liberal democracy. Voting is the part where you count the score, it’s not where you create the points. The real work of democracy is advocacy and organization. If you can’t convince a bunch of dipsticks that a particular policy is in their best interests and they should vote for it, how is it going to work when you decide that the dipsticks are too stupid to vote and you can just ignore what they think? Their views aren’t going to go away just because you ignore them. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defend-one-man-one-vote/652185/12 "2013-03-06T14:58:41Z")
… well, at least until I get the Supreme Council of Scientists implemented … ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defend-one-man-one-vote/652185/13 "2013-03-06T15:02:04Z")
I might be in favor of a system that disenfranchises old white people (of which I am one), but really, if someone has to live under the laws of a society, they deserve a voice in making those laws. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defend-one-man-one-vote/652185/14 "2013-03-06T15:06:40Z")
Lemur866: > [@](#): > > If governing authority doesn’t rest in the consent of the governed, where does it come from? Out of the barrel of a gun. There’s always the “slut lobbing scimitars in a farcical aquatic ceremony” option. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defend-one-man-one-vote/652185/15 "2013-03-06T15:47:07Z")
What if you conclude that national elections come down simply to making sure more of our dim bulbs vote than their dim bulbs do? IOW, what if both sides are blatently lying to their bases? “The Martians are invading!” “No, no, the Lizard people are sneaking through the sewer system and taking over households!” and the real issues are not a part of the campaign at all? Will you be happy living in such a system? (Because you may be living in that system already.) ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defend-one-man-one-vote/652185/16 "2013-03-06T15:58:55Z")
The solution is to give some people more votes. For instance I should have one more vote than everyone else combined. ---
**Author:** ![Kepler1571](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/db5fbb/32.png) [@Kepler1571](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kepler1571)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defend-one-man-one-vote/652185/17 "2013-03-06T15:59:27Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > I might be in favor of a system that disenfranchises old white people (of which I am one) We already have that system. It is called mortality. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defend-one-man-one-vote/652185/18 "2013-03-06T16:00:11Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > But if you were tasked with the job of seeing that the most informed, thoughtful, intelligent voters got privileged somehow in the voting process, how would you go about it? I think everyone is ignoring this part of the OP. IOW, we are to assume that voting is going to be restricted as per above. Your task, should you decide to accept it, is to devise the plan to implement it. I think the best way would be to have some sort of test, which includes some basics of science, current events, economics, history, maybe geography. Who devises the test? Maybe we let everyone vote for who devises the test, and then only people who score above a certain level get to vote for the politicians that govern us. That’s my first thought, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defend-one-man-one-vote/652185/19 "2013-03-06T16:00:16Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > Sometimes I get a little disheartened thinking about low-information voters, both on my side (I’m far to the left of the Democratic Party) and on the other side. It’s disspiriting to think of elections, not as a battle of ideas or even personalities, but simply who can convince the millions of dimbulbs out there to be scared or this or to be desirious of that. > > This is not, I must caution you who would paint it otherwise, about a lefty-righty issue, because I do think that there are roughly as many dimbulbs on the left as there are on the right, maybe more. What I’m wondering is if anyone can rationalize a way to put the vote more in the hands of people who are capable of exercising it thoughtfully. Whether this means imposing some sort of intelligence or literacy test, or awarding extra votes to people with advanced degrees, or who pay above a certain amount in taxes, I do not know. I suspect there is no clear cut way, and certainly no legal way as things now stand, to make that determination. > > But if you were tasked with the job of seeing that the most informed, thoughtful, intelligent voters got privileged somehow in the voting process, how would you go about it? I know- why not implement literacy tests and poll taxes for people who want to vote? ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defend-one-man-one-vote/652185/20 "2013-03-06T16:03:19Z")
Because no one else has posted it: [The Curious Republic of Gondor](http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/3/1/9/3192/3192.txt), by Mark Twain [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defend-one-man-one-vote/652185.md?page=2)