# Defend white supremacy! I dare you! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 10, 2004, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defend-white-supremacy-i-dare-you/233521 "2004-03-10T18:38:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defend-white-supremacy-i-dare-you/233521/141 "2004-03-12T21:14:15Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > Well, OK, I guess I agree with you, but I sure hope the next sock fills me in on the Pilgrim thing before he gets banned again. And dispenses with the assertion that Mexico is in Central America. And actually debates. I’m setting my sights too high there, aren’t I? Too low, I think: we can instead hope that no more socks appear, that the banned fellow realizes that we really do mean it when we talk about valuing honesty and decency and forthrightness in debates on this forum. FWIW, I had a third-grade teacher who consistently left Mexico out of North America when talking about countries in the continent. I, smartass that I was, just as consistently corrected her in front of the class, and she always reluctantly agreed. At the time I thought it was because she was Irish, and figured maybe they divided continents up differently in Ireland (she also taught us that the vowels are A,E,I,O,U,Y, and sometimes W, and insisted that termites weren’t animals), but now I wonder if she had some ulterior motive. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![NotPicard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/48db29/32.png) [@NotPicard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotPicard)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defend-white-supremacy-i-dare-you/233521/142 "2004-03-12T21:17:28Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > From what I know of history, the [immigration] reforms were intended to correct an unpalatable expression of racism in public policy, and were not rammed through by corporate interests who wanted cheap labor. It wasn’t my intent to claim that corporate interests changed the immigration laws. They are certainly addicted to cheap labor in the present. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Are “ethnocentric and racist attitudes” really “normal and natural for all people”? What about people raised in a visibly multiracial environments, like New York or San Francisco? (Or would you dismiss such environments as not being “normal” or “natural”? If so, you would have plenty of company . . .) I’d agree that an Italian and Mexican that grew up together in inner-city New York would find someone from the rural South more alien than each other, yeah. I don’t deny cultural and environmental influences, I just don’t deny genetic ones either. Lind’s just another commie (zzzz) Seriously, I’d agree that economic based “affirmative action” would be more sensible than race based, but I’m not very into - ahem - altruism by proxy. (Note that a lot of other WN’s are socialists). ---
**Author:** ![holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defend-white-supremacy-i-dare-you/233521/143 "2004-03-12T21:20:13Z")
> [@NotPicard](#): > > I don’t deny cultural and environmental influences, I just don’t deny genetic ones either. Please, specify what you mean by genetic influences and how they manifest themselves. ---
**Author:** ![labmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f19dbf/32.png) [@labmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/labmonkey)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defend-white-supremacy-i-dare-you/233521/144 "2004-03-12T21:21:20Z")
What happened to **Millen88**? He seemed a degree more reasonable and able to answer questions on topic than the _banees_ bubbling up to the surface of this thread. ---
**Author:** ![TheQuagmire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4da419/32.png) [@TheQuagmire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheQuagmire)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defend-white-supremacy-i-dare-you/233521/145 "2004-03-12T21:22:12Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > FWIW, I had a third-grade teacher who consistently left Mexico out of North America when talking about countries in the continent. I, smartass that I was, just as consistently corrected her in front of the class, and she always reluctantly agreed. At the time I thought it was because she was Irish, and figured maybe they divided continents up differently in Ireland (she also taught us that the vowels are A,E,I,O,U,Y, and sometimes W, and insisted that termites weren’t animals), but now I wonder if she had some ulterior motive. > > Daniel Maybe we had the same teacher because I remember one of my elementary school teachers did the same thing. You have to remember that people in the U.S. and Canada are inherently eurocentric so when someone says “North America” they automatically default towards the idea of a country possessing anglo culture. Mexico is not included by some people because it doesn’t fit into the same culture. I’m not sure if leaving out Mexico is an ulterior motive or more of an subconscious eurocentric bias when grouping certain cultures, people, and continents together. Just like how some Russian friends of mine refuse to acknowledge that Russia is part of Europe. When I say “europe” they always say that Russia is Russia and “Europe” is really just western europe. ---
**Author:** ![NotPicard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/48db29/32.png) [@NotPicard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotPicard)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defend-white-supremacy-i-dare-you/233521/146 "2004-03-12T22:07:25Z")
> [@holmes](#): > > Please, specify what you mean by genetic influences and how they manifest themselves. The context of my statement was ethnocentric and racial behaviour. Genetics result in visual markers that identify others as more closely related to ourselves. Is that what you’re looking for? ---
**Author:** ![Millen89](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/da6949/32.png) [@Millen89](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Millen89)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defend-white-supremacy-i-dare-you/233521/147 "2004-03-12T23:09:38Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > Surely you can understand the misunderstanding! > > If you call yourself a “White Nationalist” and use that number, people are going to put 8 and 8 together, so to speak. Yes, I can understand. No hard feelings. I am considering changing my screen name again. ---
**Author:** ![t-keela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a3d4f5/32.png) [@t-keela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/t-keela)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defend-white-supremacy-i-dare-you/233521/148 "2004-03-12T23:37:21Z")
**Marley** You are correct regarding the Vikings. I didn’t include them because there is no surviving settlement of theirs. Apparently Native Americans don’t count according to some folks here. I’m not one to feed trolls and such, but I think maybe this is information somebody really needs to see. [http://www.santafe.org/Visiting\_Santa\_Fe/History/](http://www.santafe.org/Visiting_Santa_Fe/History/) The “Kingdom of New Mexico” was first claimed for the Spanish Crown by the conquistador Don Francisco Vasques de Coronado in 1540, 67 years before the founding of Santa Fe. Thirteen years before Plymouth Colony was settled by the Mayflower Pilgrims, Santa Fe, New Mexico, was established with a small cluster of European type dwellings. While Santa Fe was inhabited on a very small scale in 1607, it was truly settled by the conquistador Don Pedro de Peralta in 1609-1610. IIRC Santa Fe still exists and is definitely **NOT** in Central America. and BTW if whoever :rolleyes: thinks the Spanish left North America after getting a bunch of gold…they haven’t been to the southwest apparently. Unbelievable how ignorance has such a grip on some folks. Try to educate them, not berate them. Yeah, I know it’s tough but hang in there. If these guys don’t learn, maybe someone else reading this thread will. Did I read some poster use the phrase **Just think** back there somewhere? 😉 I’m kinda surprised this thread hasn’t been closed or moved to the pit by now. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defend-white-supremacy-i-dare-you/233521/149 "2004-03-12T23:40:43Z")
> [@NotPicard](#): > > Lind’s just another commie (zzzz) What, you mean, because he talks about class? Look, it should be fairly obvious, even to right-wingers, that different socioeconomic classes exist in practically every society, and that they sometimes have divergent and conflicting interests, and that when class interests conflict it is usually the richest and best-connected class that gets its way; and that all of this is a very important thing and it is in **some** ways a very bad thing. Not every political commentator who pays attention to these facts is therefore a Marxist, a Communist, or a socialist of any kind. Lind is none of these although he has supported some specific proposals which might rank as “socialistic” by American standards. In fact, he started his career writing for _The National Review,_ and by his own account (which you can read in _Up From Conservatism: Why the Right is Wrong for America_ (Free Press, 1996)), he never drifted very far left – it was the center of gravity of American politics that moved while he remained in more or less the same place. Throughout _TNAN_ Lind speaks of the need for a “post-Marxist egalitarianism”. He also calls democratic socialism “a contradiction in terms,” on the grounds that any form of socialism widens the potential scope of government tyranny. In his analysis of the American class system, he expressly distances himself from Marxism: > [@](#): > > Understanding the white overclass requires revising the most common misconceptions about class. The discussion of social class has been confused for generations by Marxist thinkers, who made the mistake of completely identifying class with economic function. Like the Marxists, old-fashioned American liberal pluralists tend to misunderstand class. What they refer to as class is typically not a social class at all, but a mere occupational or income category, such as service-sector workers or millionaires. Meanwhile, the New Left which came to prominence in the sixties has tended to drop the idea of class altogether, in favor of race and gender. . . . In recent years, conservative ideologues have added further confusion by defining political factions and lifestyle subcultures as classes. . . . > > In order to think about class in twenty-first century America, we must first clear our minds of these Marxist, liberal, New Left, and conservative definitions of class, and return to the older notion of class found in classical and European political thought from Aristotle to Montesquieu. > > A class is a group of families, united by intermarriage and a common subculture, whose members tend to predominate in certain professions and political offices, generation after generation. Note that the class – the group of similar families – has an existence independent of the offices which its members tend to hold. Indeed, we cannot talk intelligently about class unless we make a distinction between a social class and a mere institutional elite. Those who talk about “the political class” or, with C. Wright Mills, about “the power elite,” are confusing two very different things. Every modern society, even the most perfectly egalitarian, will _have_ an institutional elite – top civilian politicians, military officers, judges, diplomats, financial and industrial executives, publishers, editors and leading intellectuals, clerical leaders, and so on. The subject of class is raised only when you examine the social origins of the particular individuals who hold office in the institutional elite or elites. Learning the organization of judicial offices in a country tells you nothing about class. However, if you find out that most of the judges tend to come from old-money families in a particular region of that country, and that most attended one of half a dozen schools, then you have learned something important about that country’s class system. > > The United States at the end of the twentieth century has both an institutional elite and a dominant social class. The institutional elite is composed of upper-level officials in the federal and state governments, plus executives and professionals in the concentrated private sector and foundation and university executives (low-level government officials and small business owners are not part of the institutional elite). Almost all of the members of the American institutional elite also happen to be members of a single social class: the white overclass. To put it another way, the labor pool from which most elite positions are filled is the white overclass. The overlap is not complete. Though most members of the institutional elite belong to the white overclass, most members of the white overclass are not part of the institutional elite (since the overclass greatly outnumbers the elite); and – though this is uncommon – a person can become a high-ranking politician, military officer, judge, CEO, foundation president, or university president in the United States without having been born into the white overclass. It is possible to imagine a United States in which most members of the institutional elite did not have similar class origins. But that is not the country in which we live. > > . . . The white overclass is the child of the former Northeastern Protestant establishment, produced by marriage (not only figurative but literal) with the upwardly mobile descendants of turn-of-the-century European immigrants and white Southerners and Westerners. Unlike the Northeastern establishment . . . this relatively new and still evolving political and social oligarchy is not identified with any particular region of the country (though it is concentrated in East and West Coast metropolitan regions). Nor does the white overclass dominate other sections through local, surrogate establishments, as the Northeastern establishment once did. Rather, overclass Americans are found in the higher suburbs of every major metropolitan area, North and South, coastal and inland. Unlike the sectional elites of the past, members of the white overclass are not even identified with the regions in which they happen (temporarily) to live. The white overclass, homogeneous and nomadic, is the first truly _national_ upper class in American history. > > The white overclass is the product, not merely of the amalgamation of Anglo- and Euro-Americans, but of the fusion of the rentier and managerial-professional classes. This blurring of the upper and upper-middle strata is a relatively new development in the United States. In earlier generations, there were distinct landowning and rentier classes, with their own lifestyles and institutions – cotillions, seasons spent in the country, and the like. The elaborate rituals that governed upper-class life, such as dressing for dinner, were designed to conspicuously display wealth, including a wealth of leisure time. That was a long time ago. There is a class, or rather a category, of the clebrity rich, and there are still pockets of old-fashioned rentiers in the U.S. – in Virginia, there are still planters who do not work and who hunt foxes with hounds – but these subcultures are detached from the summits of power. Members of the upper class who want to make a mark in the world tend to adopt the style of life and dress and speech of the managerial-professional elite. Even though they do not have to, most members of the small hereditary upper class go to college and get executive or professional jobs, and work, or at least pretend to. Instead of serving as a model for well-to-do executives and lawyers and investment bankers, the hereditary segment of the American overclass conforms to the segment immediately below it, the credentialed upper middle class. Whatever you call this, it ain’t Marxism. Even if Lind is aiming at what might be called a “classless society”. ---
**Author:** ![Millen89](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/da6949/32.png) [@Millen89](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Millen89)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defend-white-supremacy-i-dare-you/233521/150 "2004-03-12T23:58:47Z")
> [@andros](#): > > **Millen88** , I’m a little confused. Above you said you think “non-Whites should be deported from all White European nations.” But in the same post, you said you oppose segregation and, indeed, deportation in the US. What are the White European nations, and why would you support deportation there and not in the US? Deporting non-Whites from Europe is the one thing about my ideology that makes me uneasy. It’s not something I would enjoy seeing, and I would insist that it be done in the most humane way possible. Your not going to force me to name all of the White European nations, are you? I don’t want segregation. I want to live in a separate nation; that’s a big difference for me. North America is not a traditional White homeland; the land was stolen from Native Americans. Most of Europe is a traditional White homeland. That’s the difference for me. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2004, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defend-white-supremacy-i-dare-you/233521/151 "2004-03-13T00:19:57Z")
Apparently I’ve opened a bigger can of worms than I anticipated. Just today, the following threads have appeared in GD: “ORWELL: LOVE is HATE. What is a Love Group?” started by **Since1973** > **[ORWELL: LOVE is HATE. What is a Love Group?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=244672)** > > Thought Crimes. Define your Love group and debate whether emotions such as Hate should be outlawed and banned from the Human life. “ETA or MOSSAD?: ABC News Poll” started by **Franklin Philly** [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=4634047](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=4634047) “Anti-Semitism: What is it?” started by **Franklin Philly** > **[Anti-Semitism: What is it?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=244606)** > > As a Human Rights gesture, we should define Anti-semitism as against Semites e.g. Phonecians, Arabs, Syrians, Iraqis. And create the word Judeosemetism to refer to the Ehtnic group Jews. So we should use the word Anti-Judeosemitism to refer to... “[www.Stormfront.org](http://www.Stormfront.org) and Free Your MInd” started by **Franklin Philly** [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=244607](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=244607) – And every single one of them has been promptly closed by the mods. But this thread has not. Wonder why? I was hoping to post the following on **Franklin Philly’s** thread on antisemitism; but I guess this is as good a place for it. Antisemitism is, of course, a **word,** and it happens to be a word with a well-known history. From _Conspiracy: How the Paranoid Style Flourishes and Where It Comes From,_ by Daniel Pipes (The Free Press, 1997), pp. 27: > [@](#): > > Although anti-Jewish arguments and tropes have taken many forms between the third century B.C. and the present – intellectual disdain by sophisticated atheists from the Hellenists onward, resentment among fervent Christians or Muslims, jealousy among peasants, social snobbery among aristocrats, political anger among defeated Arab leaders – underlying emotions remain fairly constant. The case against Jews has varied with the complaint. Early pagans resented Jews for their aloofness; Christians charged them with deicide; Enlightenment thinkers (and Germans longing for a pagan past) blamed them for Christianity; populists held them accountable for modernity; racists turned them into a font of all evil; and fundamentalists Muslims portrayed them as the spearhead of Western values. > > _Antisemitism,_ a term coined in 1879 with the founding in Berlin of the _Antisemitenliga_ (Antisemitic League), is a form of anti-Jewish hatred that differs in several ways from what came before: (1) it changes the emphasis from religion to race, (2) it transforms dislike into fear, (3) it turns bias into an all-encompassing ideology, even a way of life, and (4) it replaces the episodic persecution of Jews with a permanent one. Antisemitism moved Jew hatred from the realm of emotions to that of political activism, from defensive to offensive, and from life’s sidelines to its core. It also changed the depiction of Jews from heretics into malevolently powerful figures. > > The word _antisemitism,_ unfortunately, is triply inaccurate. It gets the victim wrong: Jews suffer this prejudice, not Semites in general (such as Arabs). It is anachronistic: Jew-hatred turned into political ideology only in the 1880s but antisemitism has come to describe anti-Jewish bias in all ages. It is a misnomer: there is no Semitic race, If _Semite_ means anything, it describes someone who speaks a Semitic language, and many, perhaps most, Jews do not speak Hebrew. > > * * * > > Not all antisemitism involves the charge that Jews intend to gain power over the entire globe (some forms emphasize, for instance, that Jews are a source of evil or are racially inferior), but most does. _Conspiratorial antisemitism_ is probably the most virulent form of Jew-hatred, for it turns Jews into everyone’s foremost enemy. How else could it be when, in the words of one antisemite, “Jewry as a whole has a permanent policy which aims at establishing the individual Jew as a member of the ‘chosen,’ superior and dominant ruling class in every country and over the whole world.” Now, in posts above, **Franklin Philly** and **Since1973** have expressed resentment that the Jews consider themselves a “chosen people,” but they have not actually expressed any conspiratorial antisemitism. I think this is actually a very different phenomenon than the traditional anti-black racism of white America, even though both viewpoints are often found in the same person, and often synergized. I’ve encountered several racist books and websites in which the Jews are essentially **blamed** for spearheading integration and the civil rights movement; and it is certainly true that many Jews were leaders of the movement – Jews having been treated as an oppressed minority in Europe, they feel a certain sympathy with oppressed minorities anywhere. For the same reason, the old Nazi canard about the “Jewish-Communist conspiracy” is wrapped around a kernel of truth, that many leading communists and socialists, from Marx to Trotsky, have been ethnic Jews – because the Jews, thrust to bottom of the social scale in Eastern Europe, were ready to grab on to any ideology which promised social equality. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2004, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defend-white-supremacy-i-dare-you/233521/152 "2004-03-13T00:28:34Z")
> [@Millen88](#): > > I don’t want segregation. I want to live in a separate nation; that’s a big difference for me. So, instead of living in a society where non-whites are placed under legal and social disabilities, you want to live in a society where there are no non-whites at all, except perhaps as tourists? Yes, that is a big difference. But I’m not sure it’s an improvement. ---
**Author:** ![Millen89](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/da6949/32.png) [@Millen89](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Millen89)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2004, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defend-white-supremacy-i-dare-you/233521/153 "2004-03-13T00:39:40Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Whatever for? And, what would be the purpose of eliminating non-whites from Europe if there is a white haven in North America? Do you favor the deportation of whites from Africa and Eastern Asia? Why not from the Americas (if we’re going to make Europe “white”)? So that Whites can live in a country where they are not discriminated against. So that Whites can survive as a distinct racial/ethnic group for all time. I wouldn’t call it elimination; that sounds like killing people to me. Deportation is something entirely different. Most of Europe is a traditional White homeland; it should remain White. North America is not a traditional White homeland, but I think that Whites have been in North America long enough to warrant a small White homeland. Yes, I do favor the deportation of Whites from Africa and Asia, if that’s what the majority of the people in those two continents want and it is done humanely. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2004, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defend-white-supremacy-i-dare-you/233521/154 "2004-03-13T00:50:40Z")
> [@Millen88](#): > > So that Whites can survive as a distinct racial/ethnic group for all time. All right! This is what I’ve been waiting for! Now we’re getting to the heart of the matter! Please tell us: **Why** is it important that whites (or any other group) should survive as a distinct racial/ethnic group for all time? Why would it bother you to contemplate that some (or even most) of your great-grandchildren might have the blood of other races in them? (As they will, they will.) ---
**Author:** ![Millen89](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/da6949/32.png) [@Millen89](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Millen89)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2004, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defend-white-supremacy-i-dare-you/233521/155 "2004-03-13T00:52:11Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > So if everyone decided to announce that they were white, we have solved the problem. I don’t think a lot of non-Whites would try to sabotage a White homeland in North America by falsely declaring themselves White. ---
**Author:** ![t-keela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a3d4f5/32.png) [@t-keela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/t-keela)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2004, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defend-white-supremacy-i-dare-you/233521/156 "2004-03-13T00:56:12Z")
**Millen88** > [@](#): > > Yes, I do favor the deportation of Whites from Africa and Asia, if that’s what the majority of the people in those two continents want and it is done humanely. I assume you know this is exactly what Adolph Eichmann’s first order of business was. To remove the Jews from Germany, NOT to kill them. When he had exhausted all of his options, he asked every nation to take the Jews and was refused. The **Final Solution** was the answer to Hitler’s request. You are saying exactly the same thing. We can’t allow the majority of a population to dictate suffering upon a minority. Besides, the MAJORITY of Americans don’t want to export the others AFAIK. If you don’t mind saying, where are your ancestors from? ---
**Author:** ![t-keela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a3d4f5/32.png) [@t-keela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/t-keela)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2004, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defend-white-supremacy-i-dare-you/233521/157 "2004-03-13T01:04:13Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Please tell us: … Why would it bother you to contemplate that some (or even most) of your great-grandchildren might have the blood of other races in them? (As they will, they will.) 😃 and what kind of blood is that **B/G** A, B, O, or AB +/- I wasn’t aware of any other types…(black)(yellow)(red)(white)(brown) or even (blue). I know what you mean, I’m just making the point for ya. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2004, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defend-white-supremacy-i-dare-you/233521/158 "2004-03-13T01:56:38Z")
> [@](#): > > So that Whites can live in a country where they are not discriminated against. So that Whites can survive as a distinct racial/ethnic group for all time. I don’t see much point in the second statement, given that we cannot even identify who whites are other than to claim that we “know it when” we “see it.” Different groups claim that people from Iceland to India are “white” while others will draw a whole series of imaginary lines to exclude Indians, Persians, Arabs, Turks, Libyans, Algerians and Morroccans, Egyptians, Greeks and Italians, (I am always amused by some folks who exclude the Greeks and Italians while trying to lay claim to the heritages of Greece and Rome for their whiteness), Slavs, and sometimes the French and, too often, Jews. Given that “white” people can’t agree who is “white,” I find the whole notion absurd. The first sentence is simply silly. There are no laws that discriminate against whites. There are a rather small number of policies instituted by a small number of institutions that have occasionally demonstrated a bias against a tiny number of white people–and the courts have been chipping away at those places since 1979–while the overwhelming number of laws (as they are enforced) and public, private, and corporate policies place whites in a secure position that allows them to dominate U.S. society without challenge. At the same time, the courts and Congress have made it increasingly more difficult for a non-white person who has suffered genuine discrimination to seek restitution. ---
**Author:** ![NotPicard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/48db29/32.png) [@NotPicard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotPicard)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2004, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defend-white-supremacy-i-dare-you/233521/159 "2004-03-13T04:32:58Z")
This argument that’s getting made here quite a bit about the difficulty of defining “white” is really not so useful for you. There exists red and blue. The fact that there also exists purple and an infinite gradiant between doesn’t negate the usefulness of those descriptions. We all know, everyone reading this, that there’s such a thing as a “white guy” and such a thing as a “black guy”. The point being made is that when it comes to the nuts and bolts of building a system around that classification it’s unworkable. I don’t agree. I discussed this in my first post here. What’s required is a personal definition of race and a distinct political definition. Personally, you may be happy to know a race when you see it, or you may demand scientific proof. Politically, you define it to include the obvious and then go about handling the squishy business of the exceptions. It’s doable. A WN who goes on the internet by the name of Yggdrasil, (and is a lot more articulate than I am), has a good essay on the topic: [http://home.ddc.net/ygg/ls/ls-06.htm](http://home.ddc.net/ygg/ls/ls-06.htm) Here’s a quote from it: > [@Me quoting Yggdrasil](#): > > "There are two concepts of race: a descriptive concept based on physical characteristics and genetic inheritance, and a functional concept based on the tendency of groups sharing physical or cultural affinities to fight or use the political process for shifting resources in their favor. > > “For the purpose of drawing rational borders around competing groups to minimize conflict, the functional definition is useful. The descriptive definition is not.” ---
**Author:** ![Millen89](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/da6949/32.png) [@Millen89](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Millen89)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2004, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defend-white-supremacy-i-dare-you/233521/160 "2004-03-13T04:34:31Z")
> [@labmonkey](#): > > **Millen88** , how did you come to your beliefs?(If you dont mind sharing a little about your life) Negative experiences with other races? Family? Personally, I know some people who were involved in white gangs while in prison(for drug crimes) for protection and came out thinking much lesser of other groups. Is it contemporary American culture? (please dont anyone pretend not to know what I mean) I like to call it the Evil White Male Hypothesis, where all society’s ills can eventually be traced back to males of European descent. Are you frustrated at being blamed for things you feel you had nothing to do with? Finally, am I a traitor to the cause for marrying outside of the white race and fathering a child? I was born in a city, and at age seven my family moved to the suburbs. At the time, I had no idea why we were moving; I later found out that it was a case of White flight. In my new all-White suburb, I became a Multiculturalist. I believed that America’s great strength came from its racial and cultural diversity, immigrants came to the United States to become Americans and everyone should be treated equally regardless of race. This is what I was taught in school and as a trusting person, I believed it. My first experience with non-Whites was in college. For some reason, I was required to take a lot of Sociology classes, even though it had very little to do with my major. In these classes, I began to notice that my teachers and several non-Whites were hostile to me. They would constantly vilify Whites; it began to become so repetitive that it began to resemble propaganda. Despite these negative experiences, I still considered myself a Multiculturalist when I graduated from college in 1989. After graduation, several things began to weaken my belief in Multiculturalism; they included:  The LA Riots  Affirmative Action  Black people’s reaction to the O.J. verdict  Hate Speech Codes  The double standard of how a White can lose their job for even the perception of making a racially insensitive remark while non-Whites can say whatever they like without fear.  My contact with arrogant non-White immigrants who demand that the U.S. open its borders to everyone in the world but scoff at the suggestion that their “home country” should do the same.  The birth of my first daughter. About two years ago the following thought entered my head: If Whites are treated this poorly as the majority then how will we be treated when we are the minority? That was it for me. IMO, you’re not a traitor. I’m not in the business of telling other people how to live their lives. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defend-white-supremacy-i-dare-you/233521.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defend-white-supremacy-i-dare-you/233521.md?page=9)