# Defenders: bad pilot or worse pilot ever? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 18, 2017, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defenders-bad-pilot-or-worse-pilot-ever/794002 "2017-08-18T20:27:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2017, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defenders-bad-pilot-or-worse-pilot-ever/794002/21 "2017-08-19T23:45:55Z")
> [@kiz](#): > > We binged watched all eight episodes yesterday. … Okay, finished binging now too. So. Should we create a new thread to discuss with warning of spoilers or what. Cause I got questions. ---
**Author:** ![Fair\_Rarity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fair_rarity/32/153_2.png) [@Fair\_Rarity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fair_Rarity)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2017, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defenders-bad-pilot-or-worse-pilot-ever/794002/22 "2017-08-20T01:02:06Z")
I hated the pilot. I’m on the second to last or last episode. I can’t tell. They’re all so awful. There are some good moments here and there, but it doesn’t work for me as a show and I couldn’t care less what happens to any of them except Jessica. I’ve been waiting a long time for S2 of JJ and only watched this as a substitute. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2017, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defenders-bad-pilot-or-worse-pilot-ever/794002/23 "2017-08-20T01:04:13Z")
Enjoying it so far – on Ep 5. Fun if you recognize how silly it is – especially Iron Fist. And funny with all the other characters recognizing how colossally stupid Danny Rand/Iron Fist is. IMO so far, better than the little of IF I saw, and better than the last few episodes of both Luke Cage and Daredevil S2, but not as good as the first half of Luke Cage, all of Jessica Jones, and the rest of Daredevil. But still quite fun. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2017, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defenders-bad-pilot-or-worse-pilot-ever/794002/24 "2017-08-20T04:05:55Z")
I have one episode left and I’ve been enjoying it. The first episode would definitely lose something if you never watched any of the series. But since I did watch, I liked it well enough. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2017, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defenders-bad-pilot-or-worse-pilot-ever/794002/25 "2017-08-20T05:14:16Z")
I really do not think that the first episode in any way is functionally a pilot. The shows all function as seasons in a longer arc. Quite a few of us I think skipped out of Iron Fist but most not most of the rest. Even new viewers, like my daughter, first binged on the other shows before starting this one. The “pilot” framework, like many other older network mindset, just does not apply in the same to these newer viewing and distribution models. ---
**Author:** ![kiz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7feea3/32.png) [@kiz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kiz)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2017, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defenders-bad-pilot-or-worse-pilot-ever/794002/26 "2017-08-20T10:25:51Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Okay, finished binging now too. > > So. Should we create a new thread to discuss with warning of spoilers or what. Cause I got questions. I was just thinking the same thing, actually. ---
**Author:** ![kiz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7feea3/32.png) [@kiz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kiz)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2017, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defenders-bad-pilot-or-worse-pilot-ever/794002/27 "2017-08-20T10:30:50Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > I really do not think that the first episode in any way is functionally a pilot. The shows all function as seasons in a longer arc. Quite a few of us I think skipped out of Iron Fist but most not most of the rest. Even new viewers, like my daughter, first binged on the other shows before starting this one. > > The “pilot” framework, like many other older network mindset, just does not apply in the same to these newer viewing and distribution models. The first episode didn’t bother me at all. I thought of it was a “Hey, what’s up?” with all four characters. I didn’t expect their own individual cliffhangers to follow them – those are for their own individual shows. Something new had to be established in order for The Defenders to form, as it were. I suppose you could watch this without watching Iron Fist and get the gist of his storyliine but watching it first then this makes more sense re his arc. That said, WHY did HE have to take the lead in this?!?!? Any of the other backstories would have been a hell of a lot more compelling. The only thing I can think of is perhaps Marvel isn’t going to do a second season of Iron Fist, given how bad the reviews were? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2017, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defenders-bad-pilot-or-worse-pilot-ever/794002/28 "2017-08-20T11:33:57Z")
Okay, so I finished it. Liked it quite a bit, even if it was really silly at times. Spoilers: [spoiler]I was really surprised they killed off Alexandra at Ep 6 – killing off Sigourney Weaver, who was supposed to be the big bad? Nice twist! I think this is the way to do Iron Fist – recognize that he’s a huge dumbass, and make sure the other characters frequently remind him. He probably wasn’t that dumb in the comic book, but this allows the IF series to fit in. They can try next season of IF to make his character more than just a nice idiot with a magic fist. The rest of the characters were great and a lot of fun working together, I thought. Maybe except for Elektra, whose face/heel/face? turn didn’t make a whole lot of sense to me. The motivation of the Hand didn’t make sense to me either. All this was just for immortal magic dragon oil? And Alexandra used all the reserves just to make a mid-level super-powered ninja that eventually betrayed her anyway? No wonder the other Fingers were pissed![/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2017, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defenders-bad-pilot-or-worse-pilot-ever/794002/29 "2017-08-20T15:17:10Z")
FWIW we should probably start a Defenders (Seen it) thread to discuss the show. I haven’t finished it otherwise I would just create one. ---
**Author:** ![sohvan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/96bed5/32.png) [@sohvan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sohvan)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2017, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defenders-bad-pilot-or-worse-pilot-ever/794002/30 "2017-08-20T15:23:18Z")
I thought it was weaker than Jessica Jones, Daredevil or Luke Cage individually, but it was still okay. I was expecting more, though. Spoilers for the finale: [spoiler]I thought the bombing the building plot at the end was especially dumb. What is that going to accomplish actually? The Hand is a multinational organization, and destroying one of their buildings isn’t going to do much. They had no way of knowing the the leaders of the hand would still be inside when the bomb went off. If killing the Hand leaders was their goal, then doing that in person would be a better plan. Even though they hand-waved the risk to civilians by having Daredevil somehow supersense the entire office building, people outside could still get hurt by the shrapnel. People could also get inside or too close during the bomb countdown. Not to mention the damage a collapsing and exploding building would do to nearby buildings and the neighborhood in general. They also had no knowledge of what the Hand were planning in the bottom of the hole before making the bomb plan. For all they knew, exploding the building on top of the hole might trigger the the very thing they were trying to prevent. Why didn’t the NYPD file a terrorism report anyway? [/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2017, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defenders-bad-pilot-or-worse-pilot-ever/794002/31 "2017-08-20T18:46:40Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > FWIW we should probably start a Defenders (Seen it) thread to discuss the show. I haven’t finished it otherwise I would just create one. [Agree and done.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=20427150#post20427150) ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2017, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defenders-bad-pilot-or-worse-pilot-ever/794002/32 "2017-08-20T19:23:21Z")
As others have noted, the first episode is not a pilot. A pilot is a singular episode intended to sell the studio managment to fund a series. _The Defenders_ is a limited run series, as all of the Marvel Netflix shows are, with a specific story arc after which the series is concluded. In this kind of structure, the writers can take the time to logically plot out connections and let the characters organically develop relationships rather than come up with contrivences to bring them together. The story does somewhat rely on knowledge of the preceeding shows (mostly _Daredevil_ and the execrable _Iron Fist_) for setup of Elektra and The Hand, but otherwise spends its time to spin out the story threads and develop the villain as more than just a simple foil. Complaining that this isn’t a “pilot” in the conventional sense of American network televsion is like complaining that there aren’t mini-cliffhangers in the story at twelve minute intervals for commercial breaks. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2017, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defenders-bad-pilot-or-worse-pilot-ever/794002/33 "2017-08-20T20:04:10Z")
Binge watched all 8 episodes and enjoyed it. Did like how it gave all four defenders as well as side characters from all the shows an appropriate amount of attention. It does make me want to see what happens next for all of them. I still can’t stand Danny Rand, but overall liked it. ---
**Author:** ![Licentious\_Ectomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/5e9695/32.png) [@Licentious\_Ectomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Licentious_Ectomorph)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2017, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defenders-bad-pilot-or-worse-pilot-ever/794002/34 "2017-08-20T21:19:46Z")
I watched Jessica Jones and both seasons of Daredevil; skipped Luke Cage and Iron Fist. Will I enjoy/understand Defenders, or be lost? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2017, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defenders-bad-pilot-or-worse-pilot-ever/794002/35 "2017-08-20T23:20:53Z")
> [@Licentious\_Ectomorph](#): > > I watched Jessica Jones and both seasons of Daredevil; skipped Luke Cage and Iron Fist. Will I enjoy/understand Defenders, or be lost? Without giving much of anything away: from watching Daredevil, you should know that he doesn’t know who Iron Fist is, right? So if there are scenes where _Daredevil_ gets helpful exposition about who Iron Fist is, you’ll be getting it too. And, well, that’s the case. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2017, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defenders-bad-pilot-or-worse-pilot-ever/794002/36 "2017-08-20T23:27:51Z")
Which is what helped me. And all you need to know about Luke Cage is explained in show as well - which is not much. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2017, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defenders-bad-pilot-or-worse-pilot-ever/794002/37 "2017-08-20T23:29:27Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Which is what helped me. And all you need to know about Luke Cage is explained in show as well - which is not much. Well, yeah, but since **Ectomorph** mentioned having seen JESSICA JONES, figured the running start on who Luke is was already in place. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defenders-bad-pilot-or-worse-pilot-ever/794002.md?page=1)