# Defending Zuckerberg: Offering a Counterpoint to The Social Network **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 28, 2010, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defending-zuckerberg-offering-a-counterpoint-to-the-social-network/555389 "2010-09-28T20:20:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defending-zuckerberg-offering-a-counterpoint-to-the-social-network/555389/1 "2010-09-28T20:20:44Z")
See blog entry on the Huffington Post [here](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeff-jarvis/the-social-network-review_b_741946.html). Blogger Jeff Jarvis tries to offer a new-world, Silicon Valley-eye-view into how business works in the world of software innovation. E.g.: Ideas aren’t worth the cocktail napkins they are scribbled on - you need to execute; the other Facebook founders didn’t understand how and/or were incapable of executing the idea the way Zuckerberg was. The author then paints the upcoming Fincher-and-Sorkin movie as “old media taking a shot at new media,” and Zuckerberg as the guy who had the real vision and ability to execute. Interesting - from a pure business standpoint, I appreciate the truth in the observation that execution is critical. I am not close enough to this story to know whether Zuckerberg is the douchebag that this movie appears to make him out to be… ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defending-zuckerberg-offering-a-counterpoint-to-the-social-network/555389/2 "2010-09-30T16:08:47Z")
_bump_ Worth a try - any dopers have a POV? ---
**Author:** ![FordTaurusSHO94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f07891/32.png) [@FordTaurusSHO94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordTaurusSHO94)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defending-zuckerberg-offering-a-counterpoint-to-the-social-network/555389/3 "2010-09-30T18:27:59Z")
As a current MBA student, we are taught very high morals and ethics are the way to run a business. We then go home and see on the news that the way to get rich is by stabbing everyone else in the back. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defending-zuckerberg-offering-a-counterpoint-to-the-social-network/555389/4 "2010-09-30T18:35:13Z")
I have nothing of substance to add except that [Mark Zuckerberg Did Not Enjoy The Social Network](http://www.collegehumor.com/article:1809448). ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defending-zuckerberg-offering-a-counterpoint-to-the-social-network/555389/5 "2010-09-30T22:33:49Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > I am not close enough to this story to know whether Zuckerberg is the douchebag that this movie appears to make him out to be… Zuckerberg is a complete douchebag, but that’s beside the point. The real point is that The Social Network is based on a book that paints Zuckerberg as a saint. Only by “making shit up” (as the article points out) was Sorkin able to make the story of Facebook into one that could be filmed. The book (The Accidental Billionaires) is an unauthorized take on the story as well, but cites Saverin and the Winklevoss twins among its contributors. If people that hate Mark Zuckerberg enough to sue him for billions can’t say anything bad about him (the Winklevoss’ flat out admit they don’t know anything about coding and were only looking to make a [match.com/Google](http://match.com/Google) Groups knockoff), well then there was really no need to write a book and definitely no need to rewrite it into some kind of smear piece with The Social Network. That said, I still want to see it. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defending-zuckerberg-offering-a-counterpoint-to-the-social-network/555389/6 "2010-09-30T23:25:28Z")
> [@Jeff Jarvis](#): > > The movie violates privacy, smears reputations, makes shit up – just what the internet is accused of doing, right? … Sorkin himself says, “I don’t want my fidelity to be to the truth; I want it to be to storytelling.” Making shit up. Is this a movie? [Checks.] Yes, it is. File this under stupidest things ever said. The rest of it doesn’t matter after this. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defending-zuckerberg-offering-a-counterpoint-to-the-social-network/555389/7 "2010-10-01T00:32:06Z")
> [@FordTaurusSHO94](#): > > As a current MBA student, we are taught very high morals and ethics are the way to run a business. We then go home and see on the news that the way to get rich is by stabbing everyone else in the back. These days “business ethics” is an oxymoron. The[New Yorker profile of Zuckerberg](http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/09/20/100920fa_fact_vargas?printable=true) is pretty balanced, but there is enough material that Sorkin wouldn’t have to make anything up to make Zuckerberg come across as a douche. From the article: > [@](#): > > The technology site Silicon Alley Insider got hold of some of the messages and, this past spring, posted the transcript of a conversation between Zuckerberg and a friend, outlining how he was planning to deal with Harvard Connect: > > FRIEND: so have you decided what you are going to do about the websites? > ZUCK: yea i’m going to fuck them > ZUCK: probably in the year > ZUCK: \*ear > > In another exchange leaked to Silicon Alley Insider, Zuckerberg explained to a friend that his control of Facebook gave him access to any information he wanted on any Harvard student: > > ZUCK: yea so if you ever need info about anyone at harvard > ZUCK: just ask > ZUCK: i have over 4000 emails, pictures, addresses, sns > FRIEND: what!? how’d you manage that one? > ZUCK: people just submitted it > ZUCK: i don’t know why > ZUCK: they “trust me” > ZUCK: dumb fucks Good article and evidence of why I don’t use Facebook. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defending-zuckerberg-offering-a-counterpoint-to-the-social-network/555389/8 "2010-10-01T01:28:06Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > If people that hate Mark Zuckerberg enough to sue him for billions can’t say anything bad about him … I think you misspelled “…the people who sued Mark Zuckerberg and won a huge settlement that probably specifically forbade them from saying anything bad about him…” Hard to hold a grudge against someone when you have millions of their dollars. Takes the fun out of it. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defending-zuckerberg-offering-a-counterpoint-to-the-social-network/555389/9 "2010-10-01T01:37:30Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > These days “business ethics” is an oxymoron. Yep. Worrying about ethics when dealing with big business these days is like walking into a gunfight without a gun. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defending-zuckerberg-offering-a-counterpoint-to-the-social-network/555389/10 "2010-10-01T02:03:54Z")
The screenplay is online in case anyone wants to read it. IMHO Zuckerberg comes off as a … teenager who got lucky? ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defending-zuckerberg-offering-a-counterpoint-to-the-social-network/555389/11 "2010-10-01T09:33:14Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > > [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > > > If people that hate Mark Zuckerberg enough to sue him for billions can’t say anything bad about him … > > I think you misspelled “…the people who sued Mark Zuckerberg and won a huge settlement that probably specifically forbade them from saying anything bad about him…” > > Hard to hold a grudge against someone when you have millions of their dollars. Takes the fun out of it. The book was written and published before the lawsuits were settled and everyone’s specific contributions were kept anonymous. Events that weren’t specifically talked about were recreated using the descriptions from the court documents. In their lawsuits, the Winklevoss’ admit they don’t know how to code anything. And that they were attempting to make a dating site. And that they never had a contract with Zuckerberg or paid him any money. Saverin admits that he stayed out of the day-to-day operations of the site for several months and then tried to jump back in as the leader even though the Facebook team (by that point the company had about a dozen employees) had rebuilt everything from scratch. While I doubt The Accidental Billionaires is the whole truth, I think it’s a lot more accurate than anyone seems to think. Especially when compared to The Social Network. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defending-zuckerberg-offering-a-counterpoint-to-the-social-network/555389/12 "2010-10-01T11:15:21Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > While I doubt The Accidental Billionaires is the whole truth, I think it’s a lot more accurate than anyone seems to think. Especially when compared to The Social Network. I’m kinda surprised to realize I can actually comment on this: an old protege of mine was actually the featured protagonist in a Ben Mezrich book - the one where a kid ended up setting up an energy trading market in Dubai; that’s what my old analyst did after he got out of business school after working for me. I had helped him get into business school and he ended up on CNBC - who knew? 🙂 Anyway, in talking with him, he basically paints Mezrich as, well, not the best guy. He sees himself as a brand - the guy who writes real-world thillers featuring young go-getters getting into huge-stakes situations, rife with real money and potential danger - and does what he needs to so the story fits the brand. There was some thriller stuff portrayed in my friend’s book that was completely overblown. Characters were jammed into the stereotypical roles required in a thriller, regardless of whether they fit or whether there was anything thrilling actually going on. Bottom line is that Mezrich tilts stories so they fit his brand; his POV and tone don’t emerge from the story - he imposes it upon the situation. I have no idea if he makes stuff up, and I am sure the bones of the Facebook story are solid since the basic facts, to my knowledge, are commonly understood and available - but I would read the book with grain of salt. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defending-zuckerberg-offering-a-counterpoint-to-the-social-network/555389/13 "2010-10-01T12:21:03Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Bottom line is that Mezrich tilts stories so they fit his brand; his POV and tone don’t emerge from the story - he imposes it upon the situation. I have no idea if he makes stuff up, and I am sure the bones of the Facebook story are solid since the basic facts, to my knowledge, are commonly understood and available - but I would read the book with grain of salt. No argument from me there. The James Bond stuff (at one point, Zuckerberg breaks into another dorm to get some files he needs… and he’s almost caught… but it’s just a couple having sex) is surely overblown. My argument is basically that any of the parts of the book that are based on public record stuff including Zuckerberg’s deal with the Winklevosses, Saverin fronting the money and then walking away and Sean Parker’s involvement and eventual dismissal is likely pretty accurate. And none of it makes Zuckerberg come off like a bad guy. I remember saying in another thread that if The Accidental Billionaires is the unauthorized version of the story with juicy extras, the real life story must be that Mark Zuckerberg can heal with his touch. ---
**Author:** ![pinkyvee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/6de8d8/32.png) [@pinkyvee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinkyvee)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2010, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defending-zuckerberg-offering-a-counterpoint-to-the-social-network/555389/14 "2010-10-02T16:23:59Z")
I saw the movie The Social Network last night, with my adult daughter. We both liked it a lot. Very compelling. Fast paced. It is a well written script and the acting is superb. In my opinion, Zuckerberg was probably portrayed even-handedly. Kind of a creep, who really wants to be cool, and NOT be a creep. He wants to fit in. The character who was VERY much a “creep”, Justin Timberlake’s portrayal of Sean Parker. The moody song played in the film trailer is Radiohead’s song “Creep” … hauntingly sung by a Belgium girls choir - Scala. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/53OUHupfqws/hqdefault.jpg "Watch THE SOCIAL NETWORK Trailer") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53OUHupfqws) ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2010, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defending-zuckerberg-offering-a-counterpoint-to-the-social-network/555389/15 "2010-10-02T21:54:42Z")
> [@pinkyvee](#): > > I saw the movie The Social Network last night, with my adult daughter. > We both liked it a lot. > Very compelling. > Fast paced. > It is a well written script and the acting is superb. > > In my opinion, Zuckerberg was probably portrayed even-handedly. > Kind of a creep, who really wants to be cool, and NOT be a creep. He wants to fit in. > > The character who was VERY much a “creep”, Justin Timberlake’s portrayal of Sean Parker. > > The moody song played in the film trailer is Radiohead’s song “Creep” … hauntingly sung by a Belgium girls choir - Scala. > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53OUHupfqws&feature=player\_embedded](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53OUHupfqws&feature=player_embedded) I agree with all of your points. I was pleasantly surprised it was as evenhanded as it was. I’m not even on Facebook. I went to see it for the dialogue, and man was I rewarded. The acting was excellent as well. Hopefully people can stop comparing Eisenberg to Michael Cera now. The Squid and the Whale was evidence enough, but this is clearly going to be so much bigger. ---
**Author:** ![pinkyvee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/6de8d8/32.png) [@pinkyvee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinkyvee)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2010, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defending-zuckerberg-offering-a-counterpoint-to-the-social-network/555389/16 "2010-10-03T00:12:24Z")
> [@drastic\_quench](#): > > Hopefully people can stop comparing Eisenberg to Michael Cera now. It’s pretty funny that in Zombieland, Eisenberg’s character, Columbus, says: “The best thing about Z Land? No Facebook updates”. Totally an inside joke. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2010, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defending-zuckerberg-offering-a-counterpoint-to-the-social-network/555389/17 "2010-10-03T00:17:07Z")
So was what I heard, that it was just three different versions of the story as shared by trial witnesses false? ---
**Author:** ![pinkyvee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/6de8d8/32.png) [@pinkyvee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinkyvee)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2010, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defending-zuckerberg-offering-a-counterpoint-to-the-social-network/555389/18 "2010-10-03T04:14:17Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > So was what I heard, that it was just three different versions of the story as shared by trial witnesses false? What “it” do you mean? The film? I don’t understand the question. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2010, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defending-zuckerberg-offering-a-counterpoint-to-the-social-network/555389/19 "2010-10-03T04:19:56Z")
> [@pinkyvee](#): > > > [@BigT](#): > > > > So was what I heard, that it was just three different versions of the story as shared by trial witnesses false? > > What “it” do you mean? > The film? > I don’t understand the question. IIRC, during his guest spot on the Colbert Report, Aaron Sorkin said he wrote the film Rashomon-style. I may have misremembered, though. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2010, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defending-zuckerberg-offering-a-counterpoint-to-the-social-network/555389/20 "2010-10-03T05:04:44Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > > [@pinkyvee](#): > > > > What “it” do you mean? > > The film? > > I don’t understand the question. > > IIRC, during his guest spot on the Colbert Report, Aaron Sorkin said he wrote the film Rashomon-style. I may have misremembered, though. That’s not how I remember it. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defending-zuckerberg-offering-a-counterpoint-to-the-social-network/555389.md?page=2)