# "Definately" - Am I Being whooshed? (Spelling/Grammar) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 9, 2004, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definately-am-i-being-whooshed-spelling-grammar/263818 "2004-09-09T20:13:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2004, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definately-am-i-being-whooshed-spelling-grammar/263818/41 "2004-09-11T02:16:26Z")
I was an English teacher and I remain a horrible speller to this day. I had to be very cautious when preparing materials for students. Learning base words helps, certainly. And learning rules for adding prefixes and suffixes helps too. But I still think that some people have a _gift_ for spelling. I am not one of them. The longer that I taught and the older I got, the worse my spelling became. Another friend has commented on this same problem. Is it _embarrassed_ or _embarassed_ or still something else? I noticed last week in rereading my high school research paper that I had misspelled it. _Still_ can’t get it right. And I was in my forties before I finally settled on the correct spelling of _weird_. In general, I put my red pencil down 15 years ago. I won’t pick on you if you won’t pick on me. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2004, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definately-am-i-being-whooshed-spelling-grammar/263818/42 "2004-09-11T03:58:13Z")
> [@trublmakr](#): > > I beg to differ. To _some_ of us, it IS a big deal. Seeing “definately” makes my brain hurt, and it also makes me question the writer’s intelligence. YOU may not be wired to take spelling seriously, but some of us ARE. For me, it’s not a reflection on their intelligence; it’s a sign of apathy, and of not being a very good _reader_. It indicates a certain unfamiliarity with the written word; not a good sign if I’M hiring. And if they don’t take the effort to get the details write, then they’re not someone I want working for me. Even here, a poster loses credibility points, as far as I’m concerned. To me being a bas speller means you don’t read much, so I’m not likely to give your position much benefit of the doubt. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2004, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definately-am-i-being-whooshed-spelling-grammar/263818/43 "2004-09-11T04:01:05Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > . . . To me being a \*\*\*bad \*\*\*speller means you don’t read much, so I’m not likely to give your position much benefit of the doubt. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2004, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definately-am-i-being-whooshed-spelling-grammar/263818/44 "2004-09-11T11:48:21Z")
I’ve definately done it before. I make it my buisness to occasionaly mess with you spelling and grammer freaks. Yeah, I wierdly mispell things on principal. ---
**Author:** ![1010011010](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/1/ea666f/32.png) [@1010011010](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/1010011010)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2004, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definately-am-i-being-whooshed-spelling-grammar/263818/45 "2004-09-11T15:15:48Z")
\ Did you know that “definate” isn’t a word, either? ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2004, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definately-am-i-being-whooshed-spelling-grammar/263818/46 "2004-09-11T15:31:25Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > The mispelling [_“definately”_](http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&q=definately), yields about 1.3 million Google hits, while the correct spelling [_“definitely”_](http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&q=definitely), returns roughly 10.8 million links. In the personal ad world, I see a lot of “independ **a** nt” women, or so their profiles claim. Independant: 983,000 Google hits Independent: 43,000,000 Google hits Still, on [match.com](http://match.com), it seems “independant” is used for “independent” one in every ten occurrences. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2004, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definately-am-i-being-whooshed-spelling-grammar/263818/47 "2004-09-11T21:40:20Z")
For some reason I always have trouble with this word, and if I use it, I allways try to double or even tripple check the spelling before posting, to make sure I have it right. Also, for apparently no good reason, I allways want to spell tomorrow as tommorow :dubious: . I don’t know why. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2004, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definately-am-i-being-whooshed-spelling-grammar/263818/48 "2004-09-11T21:47:54Z")
_Depend **a** nt_ is a valid variant of _depend **e** nt_, but I’m not at all certain that this survives through the addition of the in~ prefix. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Tiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Mama\_Tiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Tiger)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2004, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definately-am-i-being-whooshed-spelling-grammar/263818/49 "2004-09-11T22:49:44Z")
The one that makes me want to pick up that Uzi? Greatful. AAAAARRRGHHHH!!! ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2004, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definately-am-i-being-whooshed-spelling-grammar/263818/50 "2004-09-12T02:39:12Z")
> [@Trunk](#): > > Besides, that central sound of definitely is similar to the sound in a word like separate (as in “separate but equal”) or frigate, and it makes sense on some level that some people would spell it wrong. My hypothesis as well. When _spoken_, the vowel sound there in the middle is kinda grunted, providing little obvious clues. Throw in the aforementioned problem with vocabulary-building and it’s an easy but stupid mistake. Then of course there are those who’d expect a word spelled “definitely” to have the part between the f and the l be pronounced exactly as the free-standing word “finite”. ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2004, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definately-am-i-being-whooshed-spelling-grammar/263818/51 "2004-09-13T14:21:16Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > I disagree. Logic is a difficult and complex function, so I understand people not “getting” it or being able to use it correctly. Continually spelling something wrong, especially when it’s a basic word and there are examples of the correct spelling all around you, just makes you look stupid. Sure, you understand what’s being said, but tell me this: if you were going to hire someone and their resume was full of basic spelling errors and used slang terms, would you not care because you “got their point”? Logic is neither difficult nor complex. It is simple and basic and natural. Spelling is arbitrary, has rules that are constantly broken, and requires a particular form of memorization that some people do not bother to grasp. Spelling is complex. Cf. the examples in this thread of “finite”, and “frigate” which would give you absolutely no indication of how to spell “definite”. Actually, they would indicate you should spell it “definate”. Look, I’m a pretty good speller and have passable grammar, but neither are ends unto themselves. They are means to the ends of “communication”. Sure, I would hire the guy who spells it _definitely_ instead of _definately_ but not if the second guy understood the validity of the contrapositive and the first guy thought logic was “difficult and complex”. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2004, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definately-am-i-being-whooshed-spelling-grammar/263818/52 "2004-09-13T16:49:53Z")
> [@Trunk](#): > > Logic is neither difficult nor complex. It is simple and basic and natural. > > Spelling is arbitrary, has rules that are constantly broken, and requires a particular form of memorization that some people do not bother to grasp. Spelling is complex. Cf. the examples in this thread of “finite”, and “frigate” which would give you absolutely no indication of how to spell “definite”. Actually, they would indicate you should spell it “definate”. > > Look, I’m a pretty good speller and have passable grammar, but neither are ends unto themselves. They are means to the ends of “communication”. > > Sure, I would hire the guy who spells it _definitely_ instead of _definately_ but not if the second guy understood the validity of the contrapositive and the first guy thought logic was “difficult and complex”. Bullshit. Logic is not “simple and basic and natural”, and anybody who claims it is doesn’t know jack shit about the subject. For a basic intro to how “unnatural” logic is for the majority of people, and how complex a function it indeed is, try Deborah J. Bennett’s recent _Logic Made Easy_, which offers plenty of examples of how most people have trouble with the most basic of logical reasoning problems. Or maybe start with the _Introducing…_ series, which has cartoons to aid you. Language is indeed complex, but mostly in the sense that certain inadequacies in our vocabulary invariably lead to ambiguity and confusion (oversimplification of Wittgenstein; check out also _The Power of Babel_ by John McWorther; for more of the complexity of usage that you’re talking about, try Steven Pinker’s _Words And Rules: The Ingredients of Language_). Spelling “definitely”, on the other hand, simply requires seeing the word and memorizing it. In fact, in this case, it simply involves memorizing _one friggin’ letter_. Nice try. ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2004, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definately-am-i-being-whooshed-spelling-grammar/263818/53 "2004-09-13T17:19:26Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > Bullshit. Logic is not “simple and basic and natural”, and anybody who claims it is doesn’t know jack shit about the subject. For a basic intro to how “unnatural” logic is for the majority of people, and how complex a function it indeed is, try Deborah J. Bennett’s recent _Logic Made Easy_, which offers plenty of examples of how most people have trouble with the most basic of logical reasoning problems. Or maybe start with the _Introducing…_ series, which has cartoons to aid you. > Language is indeed complex, but mostly in the sense that certain inadequacies in our vocabulary invariably lead to ambiguity and confusion (oversimplification of Wittgenstein; check out also _The Power of Babel_ by John McWorther; for more of the complexity of usage that you’re talking about, try Steven Pinker’s _Words And Rules: The Ingredients of Language_). Spelling “definitely”, on the other hand, simply requires seeing the word and memorizing it. In fact, in this case, it simply involves memorizing _one friggin’ letter_. Yeah. Spelling “definitely” correctly requires memorizing one word… So does spelling aardvark braille ceiling delineate . . . zyzzyva There are hundreds of thousands of words in the language, and _definitely_ is one that by your own admission, appears incorrectly a lot of the time. I don’t know about your browser, but mine doesn’t flag the incorrect ones and put a gold star next to the correct ones. Yet, there is one system of logic, and, its laws are immutable. Yes, it’s clear that a lot of people don’t understand it. But don’t claim that spelling is easy and logic is complex when to a lot of us, the exact opposite is true. > [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > Nice try. ??? ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2004, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definately-am-i-being-whooshed-spelling-grammar/263818/54 "2004-09-13T17:35:08Z")
> [@Trunk](#): > > Yeah. Spelling “definitely” correctly requires memorizing one word… > > So does spelling > > aardvark > braille > ceiling > delineate > . > . > . > zyzzyva > > There are hundreds of thousands of words in the language, and _definitely_ is one that by your own admission, appears incorrectly a lot of the time. I don’t know about your browser, but mine doesn’t flag the incorrect ones and put a gold star next to the correct ones. > > Yet, there is one system of logic, and, its laws are immutable. > > Yes, it’s clear that a lot of people don’t understand it. But don’t claim that spelling is easy and logic is complex when to a lot of us, the exact opposite is true. > > ??? You’re trying to obscure the issue by including words like “zyzzyva” and “aardvark” in the argument (a good example of using faulty logic) - if you read the OP, I said it makes you look more stupid to spell an _easy_ word like “definitely”, which pops up in conversation and writing about a million times more than your examples (“ceiling” possibly excepted). And the “nice try” was aimed at your assertions about the naturalness of logic. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2004, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definately-am-i-being-whooshed-spelling-grammar/263818/55 "2004-09-13T17:41:06Z")
I meant “spell an easy word like _definitely_ incorrectly”, obviously. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definately-am-i-being-whooshed-spelling-grammar/263818.md?page=2)