# Define "Classic Rock" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 21, 2007, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/define-classic-rock/401022 "2007-04-21T01:15:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2007, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/define-classic-rock/401022/21 "2007-04-24T21:53:00Z")
[QUOTE=Derleth] It always bemuses me that nobody so much as _mentions_ punk in classic rock threads, even to exclude it. Punk was born in 1977, placing it well within the usual timeframe, but for some reason everyone falls all over themselves to deny the MTV-created new wave and then completely ignore the Ramones, the Buzzcocks, and early Clash. Even proto-punk acts like the New York Dolls and the Stooges and MC5 are ignored more often than not. These groups aren’t on a par with Captain Beefheart, people. They aren’t even as ‘arty’ or as ‘obscure’ as Sonic Youth. They had as much influence on the basic musical vocabulary as Jimi Hendrix or the Beatles. [/QUOTE] Classic Rock, to me, is rock that does _not_ derive its musical vocabulary from “Modern Rock”, which is any innovations to the musical vocabulary since and including Punk Rock. Now, everything is on a continuum, so Alice in Chains, for instance, could be called nearly pure Classic Rock, but their production values and heavy guitars sound like their contemporary Grunge artists. Similarly, Coheed and Cambria, for all their progressive and epic sound, derive too much of their singing from punk, their pseudo-progressive sound from nu-metal rather than similarly-sounding prog-rock (although an argument could be made either way,) and on their first album, their short, high pitched hooks from emo, to be considered completely Classic Rock. But both bands would be considered more Classic Rock than the Ramones, to me. I wouldn’t flinch if I heard _A Favour House Atlantic_ on a classic rock station, whereas I would if I heard _I Wanna Be Sedated_. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2007, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/define-classic-rock/401022/22 "2007-04-24T23:58:15Z")
[QUOTE=Derleth] It always bemuses me that nobody so much as _mentions_ punk in classic rock threads, even to exclude it. [/QUOTE] > [@RealityChuck](#): > > I’d put it earlier: from the Beatles until Punk/New Wave. > [@ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness](#): > > The definition has changed over the past two decades. When KLSX, the first Los Angeles radio station to identify itself as “classic rock”, appeared in 1987, the playlist seemed limited to bands that had attained popularity between 1964 (British Invasion) and 1976 (just before first wave punk). It always bemuses me that some people don’t bother to read the thread before posting. And you even get the year wrong. ---
**Author:** ![zyzzyva](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@zyzzyva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zyzzyva)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2007, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/define-classic-rock/401022/23 "2007-04-25T00:03:14Z")
[QUOTE=Derleth] It always bemuses me that nobody so much as _mentions_ punk in classic rock threads, even to exclude it. [/QUOTE] Uh, ctrl-F “punk”. You’ll find it mentioned a few times up there. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2007, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/define-classic-rock/401022/24 "2007-04-25T02:55:15Z")
I’d start with the end of the Beatles’ touring days. “I Want to Hold Your Hand” and the Beatlemania hits I think I’d call Golden Oldies. I’d start somewhere around the Revolver/Sgt Pepper era for classic rock. I think I’d end it right around the release of the last good Rolling Stones album, **Tatoo You** in 1982. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Socks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a8b319/32.png) [@Captain\_Socks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Socks)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2007, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/define-classic-rock/401022/25 "2007-04-25T10:55:51Z")
[QUOTE=Nutty Bunny] Seriously? You’re 13?? You’re definitely not old! I must stop talking to you. Chris Hanson is going to be appearing at my office door any second now. :eek: [/QUOTE] Yeah, but when music made when I was alive is classic rock, that means something. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2007, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/define-classic-rock/401022/26 "2007-04-25T17:20:35Z")
I think **Ludovic** is on the right track: the key variable (other than time) is where one derives one’s musical vocabulary. Jimi Hendrix is in, because his music is part of the post-British Invasion flowering of rock n’ roll. Late '60s soul artists like Smokey and Aretha, not so much, so they’re out. Too much of the folk-influenced singer-songwriter influence gets you kicked out, too, unless you’re Bob Dylan. No Joni Mitchell, no Cat Stevens, little if any Simon & Garfunkel. ---
**Author:** ![Logan\_5](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/fbc32d/32.png) [@Logan\_5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Logan_5)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2007, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/define-classic-rock/401022/27 "2007-04-25T17:51:07Z")
Duh! it has to have cowbell to be classic rock! all kidding aside though, definitely the late sixties, definitely the seventies and the first few years of the eighties. I know it when I hear it. does that count? I consider Stones and later Beatles to be classic rock, as well as Floyd, CSN, Creedence, The Who and Zepp. I also think that Yes, Genesis and Rush fit the bill. I can also see REO, Styx, BTO, Frampton, Boston, Kansas, Springsteen, Foreigner, Santana, T-Rex, Steppenwolf, Eddie Money, Billy Squier as classic rock. So what are the key elements? Guitars? AM radio? Beer? Beats me. I love the stuff, but it sure is hard to define. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/define-classic-rock/401022/28 "2007-04-26T05:55:24Z")
[QUOTE=Exapno Mapcase] It always bemuses me that some people don’t bother to read the thread before posting. [/quote] Read for comprehension. **Reality Chuck** conflated punk and new wave and **ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness** used it as a chronological reference. > [@](#): > > And you even get the year wrong. Ha. No. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/define-classic-rock/401022/29 "2007-04-26T16:53:07Z")
[QUOTE=Derleth] Read for comprehension. **Reality Chuck** conflated punk and new wave and **ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness** used it as a chronological reference.Ha. No. [/QUOTE] What did you want them to do, an exegesis on the punk movement? They properly referenced punk in the context of the thread. They said that classic rock ends when punk begins, which is exactly “excluding” it, to use your own standard. > [@](#): > > And you even get the year wrong. > > Ha. No. You can argue the dates of origin of punk as much as you can argue the dates of classic rock. But you can’t make a case for “punk was born in 1977”. > **[Punk rock](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punk_rock)** > > Punk rock (or simply punk) is a genre of rock music that emerged in the mid-1970s. Rooted in 1950s rock and roll and 1960s garage rock, punk bands rejected the overproduction and corporate nature of mainstream arena rock. They typically produce short, fast-paced songs with rough, stripped-down vocals and instrumentation, and anti-establishment themes. Artists also embraced a DIY ethic, with many bands self-producing and distributing recordings through independent labels. During the early 1970s, ... > [@](#): > > On July 4, 1976, the Ramones, and a British band, the Stranglers, supported the Flamin’ Groovies playing to a crowd of two thousand at the Roundhouse in London. The concert is seen as crucial in bringing together the nascent UK punk scene. Over the next several months, many fans of the Sex Pistols formed their own bands, including The Clash, Joy Division, Siouxsie & the Banshees, The Adverts, Generation X, The Slits, and X-Ray Spex… > > In September 1976, The Saints became the first punk band outside of the U.S. to release a recording, the single “(I’m) Stranded”. It had limited impact at home, but the British music press recognized it as a groundbreaking record. Radio Birdman soon came out with an EP, Burn My Eye, described by critic Ian McCaleb as the “archetype for the musical explosion that was about to occur”. On the other side of Australia, in Perth, germinal punk act the Cheap Nasties had also formed. > > In October, The Damned became the first UK punk band to release a single, the classic “New Rose”. The Sex Pistols followed the next month with “Anarchy in the U.K.” In December, the Sex Pistols, The Clash, The Damned, and The Heartbreakers united for the Anarchy Tour, a series of gigs throughout the UK. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Rieux](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Dr.Rieux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Rieux)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/define-classic-rock/401022/30 "2007-04-26T20:43:16Z")
From the birth of the Beatles to the breakup of the Eagles, that’s my definition. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Socks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a8b319/32.png) [@Captain\_Socks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Socks)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2007, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/define-classic-rock/401022/31 "2007-05-25T21:58:25Z")
I would be surprised to hear pre-Rubber Soul Beatles on a classic rock station. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/define-classic-rock/401022.md?page=1)