# Define 'sports car' **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 2, 2006, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/define-sports-car/371218 "2006-09-02T17:27:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2006, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/define-sports-car/371218/1 "2006-09-02T17:27:02Z")
From the September 1967 _Road & Track_: > [@](#): > > They also meet the most important all-round requirement for a sports car – responsiveness. If a sports car is anything, it is responsive – with steering that is quick and accurate, clutch action that is crisp, a gearbox with a responsive feel, brakes that can be used hard and often. All-out performance is far less important than the feeling that you are in complete control and directing the machine rather than holding on and trying not to do anything foolish. > > There are still more characteristics. In a basic sports car there should be an awareness of things mechanical going on under hand, foot and seat. A bit of row under the hood when the accellerator is depressed, for instance; a businesslike exhaust note; even a little gear whine isn’t unacceptable. There should also be instruments… > > Perhaps not strictly necessary but nonetheless acceptable in the basic sports car are certain minimum standards of habitability… And even something out of date, like a non-synchromesh first gear, can be tolerated simply because it makes the driver a part of the great tradition. It’s appalling to think that there are millions of drivers who’ve never known the satisfaction of a perfectly executed double-clutched downshift into a non-synchro first gear. So in a nutshell, a sports car doesn’t have to have high performance; but it must have superior handling. This is the most important requirement. It is at least implied that it should have a standard transmission. It must have instrumentation so that the driver can see what’s going on with his machine. And there must be ‘feel’ – sounds, vibrations, etc. so that the driver can tell what’s happening without referring to the instruments. These are pretty much the parameters that I believe define a sports car. Others will say that a 1960s Ford Mustang or Chevy Camaro is a sports car. Only I think that they fail the test in that they do not have handling as precise as cars that I (personally) would call a sports car. How would _you_ define ‘sports car’? ---
**Author:** ![Ender\_Will](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Ender\_Will](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ender_Will)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2006, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/define-sports-car/371218/2 "2006-09-02T23:07:22Z")
> [@Johnny L.A.](#): > > So in a nutshell, a sports car doesn’t have to have high performance; but it must have superior handling. This is the most important requirement. It is at least implied that it should have a standard transmission. It must have instrumentation so that the driver can see what’s going on with his machine. And there must be ‘feel’ – sounds, vibrations, etc. so that the driver can tell what’s happening without referring to the instruments. I agree with your definition, but require a manual transmission. I’d say that subjective measurements are more important than objective ones; a Miata is more of a sports car than an SL65 AMG, even though the Benz is way the hell faster. Along those lines, even though convertibles typically lose a little bit of performance, you _feel_ more involved, so ragtops get bonus points. If I had to give a definition better than, “I know it when I see (or drive) it,” I’d say it’s a car whose primary purpose is driving enjoyment, rather than practicality. ---
**Author:** ![picunurse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@picunurse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picunurse)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2006, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/define-sports-car/371218/3 "2006-09-03T02:18:29Z")
> [@Johnny L.A.](#): > > Others will say that a 1960s Ford Mustang or Chevy Camaro is a sports car. I thought those were “muscle” cars, similar, but not sportscars. My '77 280Z was considered, at least by the insurance co as a touring car. I test drove a '66 Ferrari the same year I bought the Z, and I’d say both fit the bill as sports. Even though the 'Vette we have now is an automatic, it still give me the feel of “being there.” I think real sportscars are “polite,” they speak when spoken to, and they come when called. I bought an '86 [Starion](http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2324588) after the Z, and while it was a powerful machine, it never put me in touch with the road the way the Z did. (Mine looked nearly identical to the one in the link, but the cockpit was much different.) ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2006, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/define-sports-car/371218/4 "2006-09-03T02:36:53Z")
> [@picunurse](#): > > I think real sportscars are “polite,” they speak when spoken to, and they come when called. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Julius\_Henry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8797f3/32.png) [@Julius\_Henry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Julius_Henry)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2006, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/define-sports-car/371218/5 "2006-09-03T04:37:23Z")
> [@Johnny L.A.](#): > > How would _you_ define ‘sports car’? If I need a shoe horn to get into one and I can’t afford it, it’s a sports car. ---
**Author:** ![A.R.Cane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@A.R.Cane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A.R.Cane)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2006, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/define-sports-car/371218/6 "2006-09-03T05:21:53Z")
Meeny, meeny years ago, I had the pleasure of owning a Triumph TR3 and a few years later, an Austin Healy Sprite. Both these cars were a delight to drive, but neither had much HP or practicablity. They woud not have been pleasant to drive for extended distances, or to have to rely on for daily transportation, but I’d love to have another car like one of those. It’s not about speed, it’s all about manouerveability and being one w/ the machine. ---
**Author:** ![Renee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/renee/32/287_2.png) [@Renee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renee)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2006, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/define-sports-car/371218/7 "2006-09-03T10:03:51Z")
I think it’s a little bit about speed. To be a sports car, I think it should be able to go at least 130 or so, minimum. I also think rear wheel drive is a must. I prefer it to be a stick, but I don’t really think you can say an automatic 'Vette isn’t a sports car, although you can say the owner is a wus. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![picunurse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@picunurse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picunurse)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2006, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/define-sports-car/371218/8 "2006-09-03T12:29:44Z")
> [@Renee](#): > > I think it’s a little bit about speed. To be a sports car, I think it should be able to go at least 130 or so, minimum. I also think rear wheel drive is a must. I prefer it to be a stick, but I don’t really think you can say an automatic 'Vette isn’t a sports car, although you can say the owner is a wus. 😉 Since it was a gift, I couldn’t really argue, now could I? So I won’t ask if you’d like to take it outside. (That, and I’d probably wet myself, if you said yes, 'cause I AM a wus!) ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2006, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/define-sports-car/371218/9 "2006-09-03T14:26:42Z")
> [@Renee](#): > > To be a sports car, I think it should be able to go at least 130 or so, minimum. What about cars that everyone accepts as being sports cars that won’t break 100? For example (top speeds 85-95 mph), Triumph Spitfires (at least the early ones), MG Midgets/Austin Healy Sprites, Fiat 850 Spiders, Fiat 1500 Spiders? Or ones that barely break 100 (top speeds 107), such as the MGB or Porsche 356C? ---
**Author:** ![Dorjan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorjan/32/12440_2.png) [@Dorjan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorjan)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2006, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/define-sports-car/371218/10 "2006-09-04T03:42:43Z")
[QUOTE=Johnny L.A.] What about cars that everyone accepts as being sports cars that won’t break 100? For example (top speeds 85-95 mph), Triumph Spitfires (at least the early ones), MG Midgets/Austin Healy Sprites, Fiat 850 Spiders, Fiat 1500 Spiders? Or ones that barely break 100 (top speeds 107), such as the MGB or Porsche 356C? [/QUOTE] I would call those roadsters, not sports cars. ---
**Author:** ![Kevbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2006, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/define-sports-car/371218/11 "2006-09-04T03:56:37Z")
My buddy Frank summed it up nicely: “If it doesn’t speak italian, it is not a sports car…though it is probably reliable” ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2006, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/define-sports-car/371218/12 "2006-09-04T04:43:57Z")
I think having only two seats is a highly desirable, although perhaps not essential, requirement. For instance, the Mitsubishi Evo and the Subaru Impreza WRX are acclaimed by everyone as great-handling, quick, and hot cars. I’ve driven both, and they are great fun on the track. But they _look_ like boxy sedans, not like _sports cars_. I won’t be dogmatic about the two-door thing. I’ll bet we can come up with a few worthy exceptions. But my attitdue toward the Evo and WRX suggests that in addition to two doors a sports car has to have a certain “sports car look.” I has to visually suggest that it is meant for fun first and functionality second. This is why I would say that the 1960s Mustangs were sports cars, but the [mid-1980s Mustangs](http://www.geocities.com/fordmustangpics5/1986_Ford_Mustang_coupe.jpg) were not. The early Mustangs couldn’t handle very well, and didn’t have much power, but they were fun cars and had spirit. That 1986 Mustang in the link had more power and better suspension, but no soul. I don’t mean to say that a sports car has to look wild and exotic, like a [Bugatti Veyron](http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.seriouswheels.com/pics-abc/Bugatti-Veyron-Study-2-Red-Front-Angle-1600x1200.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.seriouswheels.com/abc/Bugatti-EB-16-4-Veyron-Study-II-Red-Front-Angle-1600x1200.htm&h=1200&w=1600&sz=182&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=INBtxQDbD75BcM:&tbnh=113&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dveyron%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN) (the most powerful and expensive production car in the world). But it can’t look like plain vanilla transportation. The Miata is a simple but elegant design that just says “fun and sporty.” So my criteria are: - Good (not necessarily great) handling - Good (not necessarily great) power - Two seats - Manual transmission - Sporty looks (whatever that means) None of these is absolutely essential if there’s enough in the other categories to make up for the missing quality. Nor can there be quantitative criteria, IMHO. I agree with **Renee** that a sports car has to be quick, but I wouldn’t go so far as to put a number on it, and certainly not as big a number as 130 mph. My first track car, a Miata, could barely get to 105 at the end of the front straight at Summit Point, but it was a lot of fun. So like art, it’s hard to pin down, like love, it takes a lot of different things all working well together, and like porn, you know it when you see it. ---
**Author:** ![Rocketeer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocketeer/32/4437_2.png) [@Rocketeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rocketeer)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2006, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/define-sports-car/371218/13 "2006-09-05T16:33:26Z")
My definition includes a convertible top. Datsun 240Z? Nope. Mazda RX-7? Nope. And seating for two (I might be willing to accept jumpseats behind, ala Austin-Healey 3000, but they have to be useless). Mustang GT? Nope. And taut, precise handling. Buick Riatta? Nope. And a manual transmission. Paddle shifters? Nope. Ya gotta do the clutch work yourself. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2006, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/define-sports-car/371218/14 "2006-09-05T17:03:26Z")
[QUOTE=Rocketeer] My definition includes a convertible top. Datsun 240Z? Nope. Mazda RX-7? Nope. [/QUOTE] It’s your definition and all, but this cuts out a **lot** of cars that most people think of as sports cars: lots of Porsches, Ferraris, Maseratis, Lamborghinis, are not ragtops. Nor is [my car.](http://www.LFexaminer.comVIR_0080a.jpg) The Aston Martin DB5 that James Bond drove was not a convertible (until he launched the passenger with the ejector seat). Also, from my perspective as [someone who regularly drives on race tracks](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=369540), convertibles are far less desirable than hard tops, because of the risk of accidents. I have a roll bar in my hardtop 350Z I understand the fun of driving with the top down (my first sports car was a Miata), but I think this aspect of your definition is a little too restrictive. > [@](#): > > Paddle shifters? Nope. Ya gotta do the clutch work yourself. If someone offers me the chance to drive a Ferrari or Porsche or other supercar with paddle shifters, I’m not going to look down my nose and say, Sorry I only drive _real_ sports cars. But that’s just me. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2006, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/define-sports-car/371218/15 "2006-09-05T17:52:46Z")
[QUOTE=Johnny L.A.] What about cars that everyone accepts as being sports cars that won’t break 100? For example (top speeds 85-95 mph), Triumph Spitfires (at least the early ones), MG Midgets/Austin Healy Sprites, Fiat 850 Spiders, Fiat 1500 Spiders? Or ones that barely break 100 (top speeds 107), such as the MGB or Porsche 356C? [/QUOTE] I’ve had my MGB up to 102. It’s a sports car. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2006, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/define-sports-car/371218/16 "2006-09-05T19:03:14Z")
I’ve had a couple of Nissan Zs, a Corvette and the 560 SL, all of which I’d consider “sports cars”, yet my Cayenne S has superior handling, horsepower, acceleration and top speed than any of them and it hardly qualifies as one. So I think performance probably isn’t a good overall descriptor. Maybe it’s what they don’t have… sports cars typically are ill designed for anything other than enjoying elements of the road. Poor gas mileage, cramped seating, low clearance, premium gas, less safe… all these can be common elements of the sports car. If it wasn’t designed for anything _other_ than getting max contact with and feel for the road… ---
**Author:** ![picunurse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@picunurse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picunurse)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2006, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/define-sports-car/371218/17 "2006-09-05T23:00:28Z")
The first Corvette I drove was a '56 the steering wheel was so big, and the shifter throw so wide, I had to run around to drive it. Was it a sportscar? Damn right it was! ---
**Author:** ![brianjedi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@brianjedi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brianjedi)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2006, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/define-sports-car/371218/18 "2006-09-06T04:11:51Z")
To me, anything that could enter a Grand-Am or ALMS race is a sports car. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2006, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/define-sports-car/371218/19 "2006-09-06T09:39:54Z")
Sports Car: A car where the driving satisfaction is placed over the safety of the occupants. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2006, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/define-sports-car/371218/20 "2006-09-06T10:07:53Z")
Would a Honda Insight count as a sports car? I got a lift in one on Monday: swoopy little two-seater, agile, manoevreable, manual shift… it is front-wheel drive, though. (My friend had the instruments set to US units for some reason, and we recorded an average mileage of 61 MPG over a trip of 172 miles (277 km). We went from 20 km south of Bancroft to Toronto on a quarter of a tank of gas, and the car was full. 🙂 ) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/define-sports-car/371218.md?page=2)