# Defining a Cult **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 14, 2002, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defining-a-cult/104862 "2002-04-14T20:29:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![aenea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c68b51/32.png) [@aenea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aenea)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2002, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defining-a-cult/104862/41 "2002-04-15T20:04:28Z")
Sooooooo This is just another LDS bashing thread then? My mistake, I thought we were actually discussing cults. You know, paying attention to the OP? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![aenea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c68b51/32.png) [@aenea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aenea)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2002, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defining-a-cult/104862/42 "2002-04-17T14:00:18Z")
Hey, I’m not LDS either! ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2002, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defining-a-cult/104862/43 "2002-04-16T16:14:57Z")
A little offtopic, but I have to share. I was talking religion with someone and she asked what I was. I told her I was Unitarian. She asked for an explaination. I did the song and dance “non-creedal, some Christians, but some atheists as well, follow your own path, liberal faith and usually liberal politics, ladeeda…” “Sounds like a cult to me.” ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2002, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defining-a-cult/104862/44 "2002-04-15T14:12:17Z")
As a nitpick: Charismatic leader being one of the signs of a cult. I don’t see anyone thinking Mr. Hinkley is charismatic. (I mean this a a nice way, I am sure he is nice, but he’s not, say, the life of the party which is what some eman by "charismatic\>’ Okay, Monty?😉 ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2002, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defining-a-cult/104862/45 "2002-04-15T14:33:13Z")
**aw, thanks Monty** :o not going to any church right now, I believe a christian is one who has a faith in God and acts accordingly. Cults are such as Heavens Gate. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2002, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defining-a-cult/104862/46 "2002-04-17T13:21:23Z")
Yes, Monty _does_ have a temper. So do most of us(but don’t even think of crossing manhatten…) We love him anyways; maybe you will too, eventually. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2002, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defining-a-cult/104862/47 "2002-04-20T20:09:10Z")
Angelslantern; Monty was flipping out because of you “testing” his religion. You were simply attacking it. Theres a difference between asking questions about perceived errancies and stating you already know there are.;j Non dues paying member of the MontyFanClub ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2002, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defining-a-cult/104862/48 "2002-04-20T20:10:21Z")
That should be Monty was NOT flipping out. See? I cant even type write! ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2002, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defining-a-cult/104862/49 "2002-04-16T07:24:30Z")
> [@](#): > > That is seven years of nonorganized church activity. You kiddin’? There was NO activity aside from a bunch of country bumpkins mumbling “That Joe kid’s gone off his rocker again!” I’m starting to think that your entire impression of the Mormon church came entirely from the movie _Starship Troopers_… ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2002, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defining-a-cult/104862/50 "2002-04-18T02:04:33Z")
> [@](#): > > It is unusual for a thread to be replied to by 99.9%LDS As has been mentioned, I am not LDS. I was raised in it, but I left it when I realized that I didn’t believe in its teachings. However, that _doesn’t_ mean that I am going to be dishonest about it. > [@](#): > > By my count there are four LDS posters (maybe five) to this thread. Four LDS posters out of maybe fifteen or twenty does not equal 99.9%. > [@](#): > > So I take it that LDS is not cult??? Only using really strict, anal, non-contemporary definitions of the word “cult”, which would make all religions into “cults”. Since this definition is not helpful in differentiating a “religion” from a “cult”, it shouldn’t be used in such a strict manner. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2002, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defining-a-cult/104862/51 "2002-04-19T09:48:15Z")
> [@](#): > > Don’t take what the Mormons say too much to heart, Angelslantern. Yeah, you can always listen to those in this thread that aren’t Mormon… strangely, they’re agreeing with those Mormons, but, ah well. > [@](#): > > I used to catch my Mormon friend and some of his brethren lying to me. By all means, share some examples. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2002, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defining-a-cult/104862/52 "2002-04-14T21:51:13Z")
Here is a good working defintion of a cult from Operation Clambake ( [http://www.xenu.net](http://www.xenu.net) , a group dedicated to fighting a _real_ cult, the Church of Scientology): > [@](#): > > From: [http://www.xenu.net/cic/definit.html](http://www.xenu.net/cic/definit.html) > Every cult can be defined as a group having all of the following 5 characteristics: > > 1. It uses psychological coercion to recruit, indoctrinate and retain its members > > 2. It forms an elitist totalitarian society > > 3. Its founder leader is self-appointed, dogmatic, messianic, not accountable and has charisma > > 4. It believes ‘the end justifies the means’ in order to solicit funds > recruit people > > 5. Its wealth does not benefit its members or society Sorry about the bad formatting. Anyway, LDS does not fit those five criteria (especially the first) and so is, by any nonbiased defintion, not a cult. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2002, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defining-a-cult/104862/53 "2002-04-14T22:11:03Z")
**ITR Champion** : I agree that number three of your list is very important. Cults are basically controlling organizations, and they take that control to extremes simply not found in other organizations. ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2002, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defining-a-cult/104862/54 "2002-04-15T20:15:49Z")
Another useful tool for defining a “dangerous” cult: ["The Advanced Bonewits’ Cult Danger Evaluation Frame](http://www.neopagan.net/ABCDEF.html) On that same page, Msr. Bonewits notes: > [@](#): > > **Minority groups, especially religious ones, are often accused of crimes by members of the current majority. In many ways, for example, the “Mormons” were the “Moonies” of the 19th century — at least in terms of being an unusual minority belief system that many found “shocking” at the time — and the members of the Unification Church could be just as “respectable” [sic] a hundred years from now as the Latter Day Saints are today.** (I have no idea why Msr. Bonewits put respectable in quotes, sorry.) ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2002, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defining-a-cult/104862/55 "2002-04-14T22:11:40Z")
Hey, according some extremely hardcore Southern Baptist sects, I’m also a member of a cult: Roman Catholicism. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2002, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defining-a-cult/104862/56 "2002-04-16T00:15:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Angelslantern \* > \*\*LDS has some very unusual practices…baptizing the dead …etc… > Face it…according to the World Book definition…it still falls under cult…sorry. \*\* As weird as us Friday Fishers? 😉 Think about it-EVERY religion has unusual practices. :rolleyes: And no, **Monty** does not need to grow up. As long as I’ve known him, he’s been nothing but polite, eloquent and intelligent. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2002, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defining-a-cult/104862/57 "2002-04-16T23:00:52Z")
Not practiced by anyone besides the blah blah blah… There are some practices that are only done by Catholics-does that make Catholicism a cult? Some practices are only done by Orthodox Jews-does that make Orthodox Judaism a cult? What about the Muslims? Hindus? By your oh-so-broad definition, EVERY religion is a freakin’ cult! :rolleyes: (BTW, not that I use it, but guys, why does the World Book have such a bad rep?) ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2002, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defining-a-cult/104862/58 "2002-04-17T02:22:47Z")
In case you hadn’t noticed, I’m not LDS. **tomndebb** is not LDS. **Spoofe** is not LDS. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2002, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defining-a-cult/104862/59 "2002-04-17T03:00:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Angelslantern \* > \*\*So I take it that LDS is not cult??? \*\* DING DING DING!!! We have a WINNER!!! ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2002, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defining-a-cult/104862/60 "2002-04-21T21:01:53Z")
**Moderator’s Note:** The reason there is a Pit in the first place is to confine the personal sniping to the Pit, and leave it out of Great Debates. If someone opens a Pit thread on you, the place to respond in kind, if you must, is _in the Pit_. This thread is for a discussion of the definition and atttributes of a “cult”; focusing exclusively on Mormonism is something of a hijack, but a debate on the alleged cultishness or lack thereof of the LDS church is not _totally_ out of line for this thread. Continued personal sniping, on the other hand, is NOT appropriate to this thread or this forum. Clear? Good. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defining-a-cult/104862.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/defining-a-cult/104862.md?page=4)