A definition I heard that I like is a relgion that has less people born into it than converts.
Several years ago, during my brief flirtation with cable, I wandered into a segment of the 700 Club program in which Pat Robertson was answering Biblical questions sent in by viewers. One question that was asked was “What is a cult?” Pat explained that all cults were evil, and you could tell them primarily by two characteristics:
a) They claimed to have a monopoly on the truth, and
b) They required their members to support them.
The next question was “What are the major religions in the world, and how are they different?” He went through a list: Catholicism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Mormanism, etc. and explained (to an extent) how they were different from each other. Of course, the one thing they all had in common was that they were all wrong for one reason or another. They didn’t, you see, subscribe totally and exclusively to Pat’s view of the Scriptures (which themselves clearly state you must adhere to, of course).
He then ended the segment by flashing the phone number at the bottom of the screen so you could phone in your contribution to his ministry.
I’m sitting there saying to myself, “Now what’s the difference here, again?”
A religion is the mainstream fundamental belief system I subscribe to.
A cult is the kooky bizarro clan-ritual that you participate in.
(Note that I’m an atheist; the abovementioned is just for illustrative purposes)
Well, the word “cult” isn’t really used much anymore, because it’s gotten a negative connotation. Traditionally, a cult is a new religious movement, usually looked on with suspicion by the community as a whole. Unfortunately, that definition has been hijacked, and the term “cult” is often used to describe dangerous cults, like the People’s Temple, or the Branch Davidians, or Heaven’s Gate. Because of that, most people who study religion now refer to groups as NRM (New Religious Movements), which they hope is still an untainted term.
Of course, by the first definition, the LDS was a cult at formation, but so were the Lutherans…so was Christianity itself. In saying that, I’m not attempting to make a moral judgement on any of those three groups.
I guess, sort of. On the other hand, you did insult his religion. That tends to make people kind of testy.
Angelslantern,
I’m just curious, but why would an atheist, who thinks that all religions are cults, have such a nut for the LDS in particular? Last time I checked, we atheists didn’t have a doctrine that required we convert the masses.
By the way, your arguments keep changing every time you are presented with any new information. Even we non-believers know how a debate works.
Oh, I almost forgot to use your argument-steroids that lend so much weight to your opinions, so let me rectify that.
There is absolutely no doubt…
Face it…
No opinnion here…
Think what you will…
By all definitions…
And if those don’t work, then…
…grow up.
I don’t see any logic rules broken. He said A is not equal to B. Seems fair enough. I understood it to mean that Monty was saying “I may have a temper, but that doesn’t mean I don’t have a brain”, but maybe you get something else out of it.
Ad hominem attacks aren’t looked on fondly in GD, so I’m pretty sure the board will back him up on this one. I’m certainly not a dues paying member in the “Monty’s always right” fan club, but I don’t see where he didn’t follow his own rules. Cite?
I’m still confused what AL is trying to say. Didn’t he already say, in his own post: “A cult is a religiuos group devoted to a living leader, a new teaching, or an unusual practice… Christianity began as a cult within Judaism… In modern times groups that began as cults and developed into organized churches include the Quakers, Mormons”
He doesn’t seem to be making rational posts anymore.
I’m beginning to think he’s either a troll or a few cards short of a full deck. Either way, he’s not adding anything to this discussion, so maybe we should respond in this thread only to his GD quality posts and leave responses to his Pit-like posts to this Pit.
PC
I certainly would not consider LDS to be a cult. I don’t think there’s any strict definition. A cult generally has these characteristics:
1.) Centered around obedience or service to one person or a small group of people.
2.) Claims that the leader is perfect and infallible.
3.) Belief that the outside world consisting of everyone who isn’t in the cult is corrupt, and tries to cut off all communication between cult members and the outside world.
4.) Belief that Armageddon will occurs soon. Belief that this cult will play an important role in Armageddon.
However, one could name some cults that don’t fit all four of these definitions. I would say that number 3 is probably the most important. None of the world’s major religions would qualify as cults to me because they don’t try to completly cut of their members from society.
Get yer facts straight cupcake, the Church Organized April 6, 1830 in accordance with the laws of the state of New York, in the Whitmer home in Fayette. Fifty six were present with 6 being recorded that day as the organizing members.
Over 11 million in 160 countries.
It does not. Joseph did not have “followers” outside his family until about 1827. The membership of the church did not begin congregating and living in the same communities until shortly after the church was officially organized in 1830.
It’s already been noted another thread. But this is a false statement. We do not baptize dead. We do baptisms by proxy for those who are dead, if they have a family member or descendant who request it.
Have you not read the thread? The World Book Encyclopedia is not necessary a particularly respected “cite” on this board. Most of us stopped using them after elementary school.
No, Christ died and was resurrected. A resurrected being is not the same as a mortal being. We do however consider him the head of the Church.
No, we believe his teachings are a restoration of the gospel as Christ taught it.
Oh look you got one right! Just as every other religion has doctrines, teachings and practices that distinguish them from the one down the street, across the country, or four countries over. Or are you claiming there are a set of religions that all practice the same beliefs? I don’t think so. I think you just can’t deal with “different”, sounds like a pretty typical case of ignorant intolerance or bigotry to me.
vanilla is not LDS
chief crunch is not LDS
rjung is not LDS
Nenya_Elizabeth is not LDS
DMC is not LDS
several others I don’t know about. By my count there are four LDS posters (maybe five) to this thread.
By jove, I think she’s got it!
**A[/]b You don’t have a flippin clue what you are talking about. A practicing high priest would not have been out ranching or visiting on a sunday morning. He’d have been in church. :rolleyes:
Some additions/modifications/etc:
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Make that absolute obedience.
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It seems that a cult (now usually denotes a doomsday cult) would also claim the leader to have some kind of extraordinary origin, say, the brother of Jesus or the biggest Buddha, and therefore has extraordinary or even supernatural powers.
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Sometimes a cult requires followers to live in large groups that are cut off from the outside world.
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Not necessary Armageddon per se but some kind of doomsday scenerio.
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Extorts money from members
No, aenea, you aren’t the only one. The group my family was in wanted to have no name (so as to be different from all the other churches whom God had obviously passed by) but we refered to ourselves as The Move. (Short for “the end-time movement of God”–yeah, we were pretty apocalyptic.) Begun by a fellow named Sam Fife, now headed by a man named Buddy (Carroll) Cobb, who my parents say believes almost the exact opposite of many of the initial founder’s concepts–yet many folks still follow him.
My mom’s parents and two of her brothers are still in the group; as are many acquaintances including two of my superiors at work. Our group wasn’t as extreme as some, but displayed most of the abusive behaviours listed in the first few posts here and in Cecil’s column.
If you know someone who claims to have left a cult, please be very gentle with them. Some of the freedoms you take for granted–to choose your own carreer, home, or clothing style, not to mention belief system–may be very difficult for them to reclaim. Cults suck!!! 
If you suspect your group may be a cult, as my dad’s friend says, “Read Animal Farm. If you see your leaders in the pigs, take a long, hard look at your group.”
I have at times been desribed as “an utter cult”. Sadly, my hearing is not what it used to be.