# Definite articles in ship names **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 17, 2011, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definite-articles-in-ship-names/578760 "2011-04-17T21:54:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definite-articles-in-ship-names/578760/21 "2011-04-20T03:48:38Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Nobody says Titanic now, but they did at the time. In the movie, they always did – “We’re sailing on Titanic” or what have you – because again, that was correct style for the time but not used today. It’s just something that’s changed over the decades. That’s not actually true, though. From Elizabeth Shutes’ first person account, published in 1913, > [@](#): > > Sitting by me in the lifeboat were a mother and daughter. The mother had left a husband on the Titanic, and the daughter a father and husband, and while we were near the other boats those two stricken women would call out a name and ask, ‘Are you there?’ From The Nation, in 1912: > [@](#): > > Contradictory as are the narratives of the survivors of the Titanic in many details, the essential facts stand out clearly. There was no panic; the crew as a whole behaved admirably… From a 1912 edition of “Current Literature”, regarding the appropriateness of Bruce Ismay getting on a lifeboat, from a caption: > [@](#): > > The other collapsible was capsized when the Titanic went down, and the Carpathia found it with thirty men clinging to it, and one man, the wireless operator, dead from exposure and fatigue I’m looking at all sorts of contemporary press coverage, and pretty much every article uses “the Titanic”, “The Carpathia”, “The Californian”. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definite-articles-in-ship-names/578760/22 "2011-04-20T03:58:33Z")
Hmmm. That’s interesting in light of that one report at the time of the movie that I mentioned above. I can’t link to it though, but they said that was why they dropped “the” in the film. ---
**Author:** ![paperbackwriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@paperbackwriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paperbackwriter)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definite-articles-in-ship-names/578760/23 "2011-04-20T04:06:58Z")
> [@MikeF](#): > > Right. Nobody refers to that most famous of ships as “Titanic”. It always the Titanic or HMS Titanic. And Gordon Lightfoot couldn’t be wrong when he sings of the wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald, could he? I hope people don’t refer to “the HMS _Titanic_,” actually. HMS means “His Majesty’s Ship,” a designation reserved for commissioned vessels of the Royal Navy. The _Titanic_ was instead “RMS,” the abbreviation for a Royal Mail Steamer. These were commercial vessels that had contracts with the Royal Mail system. (Other common ship prefixes include SS for Steamship, M/V for Motor Vessel, RV for Research Vessel, etc.) ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definite-articles-in-ship-names/578760/24 "2011-04-20T04:18:40Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Unique inanimate objects almost always get definite articles. > > The Empire State Building > The Golden Gate Bridge > The Hope Diamond > The Magna Carta The Straight Dope. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definite-articles-in-ship-names/578760/25 "2011-04-20T05:39:12Z")
I’m a maritime lawyer and am in correspondence with shipowners, brokers, and insurers every day. The standard style in the world of commercial shipping is to use the definite article before the ship’s name. ---
**Author:** ![Oldsalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e99b99/32.png) [@Oldsalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oldsalt)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definite-articles-in-ship-names/578760/26 "2013-06-21T14:48:34Z")
This one really bugs an old Navy man, like me. As everybody knows, a vessel is alive. She is female‼ and as beautiful, comforting, protective of her men, and lively in her actions and quirks as any other woman of substance. Whenever a Navy man is asked aboard which ship he sailed, he would reply “Hornet,” or “USS Hornet,” but NEVER “the Hornet.” Indeed, you would never refer to your wife as “the Mary.” Just “Mary”! Thus to ships of the line. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definite-articles-in-ship-names/578760/27 "2013-06-21T15:27:57Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > The Straight Dope. > > 😃 The Ed Zotti. :D:D ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definite-articles-in-ship-names/578760/28 "2013-06-21T16:23:52Z")
> [@Llama\_Llogophile](#): > > The British always called their awesome airplane Concorde, deliberately omitting the definite article. While the rest of the world called it The Concorde. Not sure why. I guess it sounds better without the article because “concord(e)” in the sense intended here is an abstract noun. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definite-articles-in-ship-names/578760/29 "2013-06-21T17:19:45Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > When the film _Titanic_ came out, among the various media reports surrounding it was one claiming that back at that time, definite articles were never used with ship names. Supposedly, no one at that time said “the Titanic,” but rather just “Titanic.” Adding the article is a modern-day development. Did nobody back in 2011 read this thread and have “I am the Captain of the Pinafore…” start playing in their head? ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definite-articles-in-ship-names/578760/30 "2013-06-21T17:25:44Z")
> [@Llama\_Llogophile](#): > > The British always called their awesome airplane Concorde, deliberately omitting the definite article. While the rest of the world called it The Concorde. Not sure why. To be fair - the French had some input too. Hence the final ‘e’. It was intended to emphasise the Anglo French nature of the project. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definite-articles-in-ship-names/578760/31 "2013-06-21T19:10:41Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Did nobody back in 2011 read this thread and have “I am the Captain of the Pinafore…” start playing in their head? …and so do his sisters and his cousins and his aunts. 😃 In all seriousness, non-Navy usage seems to insist on the definite article, even when the official usage strongly deplores it, e.g., ships named for people like the Nimitz-class carriers or the USS Reuben James (DD-245, named for heroic Boatswain’s Mate of the Barbary Wars), about which the near-instant folk song asked “What were their name? Can you tell me their names\> Did you have a friend on the good Reuben James?” ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2013, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definite-articles-in-ship-names/578760/32 "2013-06-22T00:43:06Z")
IME Navy and ex-Navy folks are less likely to use “the” in front of a ship’s name. I always use “the,” and ital or underline the ship’s name but not any prefix. Thus, I would write: “We’re sailing aboard the _Titanic_.” “We’re sailing aboard the RMS _Titanic_.” “Captain Kirk commanded the _Enterprise_.” “Captain Kirk commanded the USS _Enterprise_.” An episode of _Star Trek: Voyager_ once showed the commissioning plaque of a ship, the name of which actually included the definite article, which seemed very clunky to me: [http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/\_\_cb20050921140220/memoryalpha/en/images/2/2d/USS\_Raven\_Dedication\_Plaque.jpg](http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20050921140220/memoryalpha/en/images/2/2d/USS_Raven_Dedication_Plaque.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![stuyguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@stuyguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stuyguy)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2013, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definite-articles-in-ship-names/578760/33 "2013-06-22T01:28:32Z")
FWIW a promotional film make by U.S. Steel religiously referred to the big stainless steel globe they were manufacturing for the 1964 World’s Fair as “Unisphere,” not “_The_ Unisphere.” Yeah, good luck with that. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2013, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definite-articles-in-ship-names/578760/34 "2013-06-22T01:32:42Z")
And perhaps you’ve heard of _The_ Ohio State University? They’re quite fetishistic about it: > **[Why is it called "THE" Ohio State University?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=500744)** > > Why the superfluous “the”? It sounds pretentious and bothers me every time I hear it. Why do they want to be special? [http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/003548.html](http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/003548.html) > **[Yahoo | Mail, Weather, Search, Politics, News, Finance, Sports & Videos](https://www.yahoo.com/)** > > Latest news coverage, email, free stock quotes, live scores and video are just the beginning. Discover more every day at Yahoo! ---
**Author:** ![JBDivmstr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b4bc9f/32.png) [@JBDivmstr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JBDivmstr)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2013, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definite-articles-in-ship-names/578760/35 "2013-06-22T18:44:40Z")
Henceforth, I wish to be referred to as “_ **the** _ JBDivmstr”. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![JBDivmstr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b4bc9f/32.png) [@JBDivmstr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JBDivmstr)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2013, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definite-articles-in-ship-names/578760/36 "2013-06-22T18:46:51Z")
_ **The** _ Bad example. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2013, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definite-articles-in-ship-names/578760/37 "2013-06-23T00:03:43Z")
German speakers regularly use a definite article with people’s first names. It was not unusual for me to be referred to as “der Siam Sam” by my distant relatives in Switzerland. (Donald Trump would feel right at home.) ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2013, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definite-articles-in-ship-names/578760/38 "2013-06-23T02:08:42Z")
In no situation is it a totally wrong , unforgivable, only an idiot would do that, sort of thing to include or exclude that “the”. Its a fashion thing. Its a context thing. Style guides are used to making formal communications … _seem formal_. When there’s a discussion attached, the discussion may vary from the formal part of the communication… It may seem annoying to always put in USS , SS , HMS, RMS, etc in a long essay …even if its attached to a formal report… ---
**Author:** ![SpyOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@SpyOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpyOne)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2013, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definite-articles-in-ship-names/578760/39 "2013-06-23T08:12:52Z")
> [@Fish\_Cheer](#): > > From Wikipedia:[Ship prefix - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_prefix) Yes, but that’s rather a different thing. USS Yorktown is right, and _the_ USS Yorktown is wrong, but Yorktown is wrong and _the_ Yorktown is right. It would be correct to say, “He was a fresh young Ensign serving aboard USS Yorktown, …” or to say “He was a fresh young Ensign serving aboard the Yorktown, …” but don’t mix parts of both and include both “the” and “USS”. ---
**Author:** ![JBDivmstr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b4bc9f/32.png) [@JBDivmstr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JBDivmstr)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2013, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definite-articles-in-ship-names/578760/40 "2013-06-23T17:46:44Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > German speakers regularly use a definite article with people’s first names. It was not unusual for me to be referred to as _ **“der Siam Sam”** _ by my distant relatives in Switzerland. > > (Donald Trump would feel right at home.) (bolding mine) Y’know, that has a ‘ring’ to it, when said out loud. 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definite-articles-in-ship-names/578760.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/definite-articles-in-ship-names/578760.md?page=3)